Electrocution at Lake Pleasant, AZ
- Thread starter AlastairLC
- Start date
This is definitely incorrect. AC GREEN/GROUNDING is always conencted to the vessels DC grounding bus but AC NEUTRAL/WHITE is never connected to AC GREEN? GROUNDING on-board the vessel when tied to shore power.
The ONLY TIMES AC GREEN/GROUNDING and AC NEUTRAL/WHITE are ever tied together on the vessel is:
- When actively disconnected from shore power and inverting power with an inverter (this is why MARINE SPECIFIC inverters are a MUST).
- When actively disconnected from shore power and generating power with an genset (this is why MARINE SPECIFIC gensets are are critical)
- If you have an isolation transformer powering your vessel.
For a 120V 30A system this acceptable wiring from the ABYC: (If the vessel is fitted with a reverse polarity indicator the "branch" brakers only need to interrupt the AC BLACK/HOT wire.)
Link doesn't work - but you can get to the story if you copy the link text and paste it into a browser.
It's the same info I posted yesterday.
Let's see if this works.
www.azfamily.com
Boat of brothers who died at Lake Pleasant had electrical issues, MCSO says
Investigators say the boat belonging to two brothers who died at Lake Pleasant over the weekend, had an electrical system that wasn’t compatible with the system at Scorpion Bay Marina.
Is there a simple leakage test that can be done with a basic multimeter? That would be easier and more robust that trying to trace all wiring on an old boat. Maybe check water voltage/resistance vs boat ground under all scenarios: everything off, shore power, inverter power, generator power.
This incident sounded bad enough that just dipping a toe in the water at the back of the boat would have given a shock.
This incident sounded bad enough that just dipping a toe in the water at the back of the boat would have given a shock.
This sort of problem is exactly why ground fault detection (ie, GFCI and ELCI) exists. You can tell with a clamp on current meter on the power cord if you know what you are doing but the simplest way is to just use GFCI. Some marinas will have GFCI or ELCI already built into the power source and if you plug in and it does trip (and the ground fault detection is working - these always have a manual way to self test), you likely have some level of problem.
If the dock pedestal does not have ground fault detection (some do, some dont, the marina in this thread likely does not), just insert something like in the link below in the cord between the dock power pedestal and the boat. If it trips and doesnt allow power to the boat, you have some issue that needs to be addressed. If you get power and the instrument is working, you dont have a problem.
One example of a GFCI extension that would provide a quick and reliable test..
Tower Manufacturing Corporation 2 ft. In-Line GFCI Triple Tap Cord Manual Reset 30396028-08 - The Home Depot
The 15 Amp In-Line GFCI 2 ft. Triple Tap Cord Manual Reset is ideal for indoor and outdoor use. It features built in GFCI protection against hazardous shock from damaged cords or exposure to water. A convenient heavy duty 2 ft., 12-Gauge cord with 3 outlet triple tap extends protection to...
www.homedepot.com
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I have one of those, but it's not going to mate with a standard shore power cable without some adapters.This sort of problem is exactly why ground fault detection (ie, GFCI and ELCI) exists. You can tell with a clamp on current meter on the power cord if you know what you are doing but the simplest way is to just use GFCI. Some marinas will have GFCI or ELCI already built into the power source and if you plug in and it does trip (and the ground fault detection is working - these always have a manual way to self test), you likely have some level of problem.
If the dock pedestal does not have ground fault detection, just insert something like in the link below in the cord between the dock power pedestal and the boat. If it trips and doesnt allow power to the boat, you have some issue that needs to be addressed. If you get power and the instrument is working, you dont have a problem.
One example of a GFCI extension that would provide a quick and reliable test..
Tower Manufacturing Corporation 2 ft. In-Line GFCI Triple Tap Cord Manual Reset 30396028-08 - The Home Depot
The 15 Amp In-Line GFCI 2 ft. Triple Tap Cord Manual Reset is ideal for indoor and outdoor use. It features built in GFCI protection against hazardous shock from damaged cords or exposure to water. A convenient heavy duty 2 ft., 12-Gauge cord with 3 outlet triple tap extends protection to...www.homedepot.com
Yep.. and some chance you have ELCI or GFCI correctly wired up on the boat which will also prevent this sort of problem. But then you still have the problem of ground fault not being wired correctly on the boat since this probably is often done by the owner.
Ground fault detection just lets you know there is a problem. The problem could be the AC hot wired to an underwater metal structure and be very dangerous, or it could be as simple as having the neutral and ground (white and green) connected together on the boat which is probably not dangerous, but may increase corrosion.
Ground fault detection just lets you know there is a problem. The problem could be the AC hot wired to an underwater metal structure and be very dangerous, or it could be as simple as having the neutral and ground (white and green) connected together on the boat which is probably not dangerous, but may increase corrosion.
Almost unbelievable people are killed for the lack of an ELCI/GFCI. Sure, the guys boat was wired wrong - which is wrong. But in a general sense, that may happen anyway (malice, ignorance or accident). Just like I may accidentally drop my hair dryer in my toilet. But ELCI/GFCI would have kept popping, but it would have saved lives.
IMHO Insurance should require it, and legislation should have a fixed time out for grandfathered installations. For private docks, the owner's insurance should require it. Nobody should be dying in water after ground fault protection was available at consumer prices.
IMHO Insurance should require it, and legislation should have a fixed time out for grandfathered installations. For private docks, the owner's insurance should require it. Nobody should be dying in water after ground fault protection was available at consumer prices.
A clamp on meter will work. If there is no leakage the power the meter will register 0, if there is leakage it will show current passing through the cable. With AC the alternating current cancels the magnetic field so the meter reads 0, if there is leakage the current entering the cable is greater than the current leaving the cable and it registers current passing through.
Look at the photo in post #43, this is a clamp on meter showing almost 2 amps of leakage.