Does it still make sense to restore old boats?
- Thread starter Jackdaw
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[FONT=Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Like many other have already said; it depends on the boat, the person and the situation.
If your the type of person that wants it now, new and for a short-time, then no -- boat restoration is not for you.
Lets compare boats to cars for a moment.
1) If you buy a new car off the dealer lot and keep it for a a year or two -- then the dealer has one over on you (depreciation is the greatest during the first 2 yrs).
2) If you buy a new car off the lot and keep it for 10+ years, then you may be ahead (especially if you did not finance the purchase).
3) Better yet, if you buy the car that is 2-3 yrs old (slightly used) and keep it until it dies, then you made the wise choice from a financial standpoint. I am assuming you don't mind driving a car that is 10+ yrs old.
So if you buy the boat that is the right size and caliber for you and your family -- planning out 10-15 years here, then a restoration may make sense. Depending on the amount of $ you invest in the restoration and work / hours -- it will vary but the key here is really how long you plan to keep the boat. I would assume you recoup next to nothing back on the money you put into it so again, if you keep the boat for a long time and enjoy the mods and upgrades yourself, then you will be ahead in the end. Remember, old-boat ownership is a labor of love....or really a hobby your should enjoy.
- Rob[/FONT]
If your the type of person that wants it now, new and for a short-time, then no -- boat restoration is not for you.
Lets compare boats to cars for a moment.
1) If you buy a new car off the dealer lot and keep it for a a year or two -- then the dealer has one over on you (depreciation is the greatest during the first 2 yrs).
2) If you buy a new car off the lot and keep it for 10+ years, then you may be ahead (especially if you did not finance the purchase).
3) Better yet, if you buy the car that is 2-3 yrs old (slightly used) and keep it until it dies, then you made the wise choice from a financial standpoint. I am assuming you don't mind driving a car that is 10+ yrs old.
So if you buy the boat that is the right size and caliber for you and your family -- planning out 10-15 years here, then a restoration may make sense. Depending on the amount of $ you invest in the restoration and work / hours -- it will vary but the key here is really how long you plan to keep the boat. I would assume you recoup next to nothing back on the money you put into it so again, if you keep the boat for a long time and enjoy the mods and upgrades yourself, then you will be ahead in the end. Remember, old-boat ownership is a labor of love....or really a hobby your should enjoy.
- Rob[/FONT]
Jackdaw:
To answer this point specifically: I bought my 45 foot Down East ketch for less than half what others were asking eighteen months ago. It was perfectly sailable, but didn’t meet my idea of a cruising home, but I could envisage the potential. Luckily I enjoy working on boats and I have the skill and also income to do it.
So far I have spent nearly as much as I paid for her, but anyone who looks at the modifications, (on my website www.schooner-britannia.com), will see she is becoming a very special boat, to my requirements.
So my answer is yes, it has been worthwhile and enjoyable to convert her to what I want, rather than buy one for twice the price eighteen months ago, (which I could not have done anyway, due to the special rig and interior I have built).
I also think it may now be worth somewhat more than the total I have in it—not of course including labor—but that’s all a bit academic, since I don’t plan on selling it.
You can make money fixing up older boats.
My first Mac V21 cost me $1200 and I sold it for $3000 after putting about $800 in part and labor into her. I used that money to buy a wreaked Coronad 23' on an EZ tilt trailer, for $1,400 She had hull damage and I fixed that and rebuilt the interior. Sold her for $4000 and purchased a Coronado 25' for $1000. Did some cosmetic work on the Coronado, added a bimi and sold here for $2500. Then I purchased a MacGregor V22 with 5 sails, a nice trailer and an older 10HP Johnson for $800. The interior was full of hornet nests and rats had made a home in the floatation foam. Gutted the interior and stripped the deck hardware and put a nice paint job on that. Used the extra cash to buy a nice new outboard, a charge regulator for shore and one for solar, a solar panel and a VHF. She is a dream and I'll be sad when I sell her. I expect to get $3500 to $4000 for the Mac 22. I also purchased a Rhodes 22 that had been abandoned at a marina. I only paid $250 for her. She came with a brand new main sail that was only one season old and roller furled head sail that is usable. I expect I'll spend about $3000 fixing her up to the way I want her. Or I might sell her partially fixed up and come out a few hundred ahead. A new Rhodes cost $40,000.
Fiberglass is easy to fix.
My first Mac V21 cost me $1200 and I sold it for $3000 after putting about $800 in part and labor into her. I used that money to buy a wreaked Coronad 23' on an EZ tilt trailer, for $1,400 She had hull damage and I fixed that and rebuilt the interior. Sold her for $4000 and purchased a Coronado 25' for $1000. Did some cosmetic work on the Coronado, added a bimi and sold here for $2500. Then I purchased a MacGregor V22 with 5 sails, a nice trailer and an older 10HP Johnson for $800. The interior was full of hornet nests and rats had made a home in the floatation foam. Gutted the interior and stripped the deck hardware and put a nice paint job on that. Used the extra cash to buy a nice new outboard, a charge regulator for shore and one for solar, a solar panel and a VHF. She is a dream and I'll be sad when I sell her. I expect to get $3500 to $4000 for the Mac 22. I also purchased a Rhodes 22 that had been abandoned at a marina. I only paid $250 for her. She came with a brand new main sail that was only one season old and roller furled head sail that is usable. I expect I'll spend about $3000 fixing her up to the way I want her. Or I might sell her partially fixed up and come out a few hundred ahead. A new Rhodes cost $40,000.
Fiberglass is easy to fix.
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Response to rehabing an Old Boat
You make a compelling argument. If you consider straight cost, then yes what you are saying makes sense. However most people that I know who are sailor's, it goes well beyond $ & cents, its a passion and its hard to put a price on that. I will admit that I am new at this, I just acquired for free a 1978 Ranger 33 that needs a lot of work. The Blue Book value is $14,000. I plan to invest about $4K-$5K into it. That still keeps me a ahead of the game. I guess at the end of the day, its a personal decision, but but your point is well taken and one should take that into consideration when they make their decision.
Howard
Hi Jack,
You make a compelling argument. If you consider straight cost, then yes what you are saying makes sense. However most people that I know who are sailor's, it goes well beyond $ & cents, its a passion and its hard to put a price on that. I will admit that I am new at this, I just acquired for free a 1978 Ranger 33 that needs a lot of work. The Blue Book value is $14,000. I plan to invest about $4K-$5K into it. That still keeps me a ahead of the game. I guess at the end of the day, its a personal decision, but but your point is well taken and one should take that into consideration when they make their decision.
Howard
I get all quivery inside when I see the modifications master carpenters do to restore old boats. But then, I do a reality check. One do I have the time? Two do I have the tools? Three do I have the talent. Four do I have the ambition.
It seems that four is always the easiest to come-up with - it's the dream. It's the other three that trip you up...
My reality is that I bought a 1977 27' Catalina in fairly good shape for cheap from a marina claim off of eBay. I had the boat transported to my local marina an commenced the restoration. It took two years to get it in the water - tore out the old electrical systems that the PO had monkeyed around with, trashed and replaced the water system. Replaced a lot of the rigging. Cleaned, stripped, stained and repainted it. New anti-skid deck. New depth sounder and compass. GPS, the works.
Now, in this economy, I can't give it away. It's been for sale for more than a year at less than 1/2 of the cost I put in to it, not including the boat or the hundreds of hours of labor.
I took a lot of pride and please from the work I did. Dreams are great - just remember that they are the monetary black hole of sailing. So dream accordingly.
It seems that four is always the easiest to come-up with - it's the dream. It's the other three that trip you up...
My reality is that I bought a 1977 27' Catalina in fairly good shape for cheap from a marina claim off of eBay. I had the boat transported to my local marina an commenced the restoration. It took two years to get it in the water - tore out the old electrical systems that the PO had monkeyed around with, trashed and replaced the water system. Replaced a lot of the rigging. Cleaned, stripped, stained and repainted it. New anti-skid deck. New depth sounder and compass. GPS, the works.
Now, in this economy, I can't give it away. It's been for sale for more than a year at less than 1/2 of the cost I put in to it, not including the boat or the hundreds of hours of labor.
I took a lot of pride and please from the work I did. Dreams are great - just remember that they are the monetary black hole of sailing. So dream accordingly.
"Nice? It's the ONLY thing! ... Believe me, my young friend, there is NOTHING--absolute nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. Simply messing ... messing--about in boats--or WITH boats!"
"A man's work is nothing but this slow trek to rediscover, through the detours of art, those two or three great and simple images in whose presence his heart first opened."
Albert Camus
on the other hand,
"Work is a necessary evil to be avoided."
Mark Twain
Albert Camus
on the other hand,
"Work is a necessary evil to be avoided."
Mark Twain
I think it can worthwhile to have a project boat at some point because you do learn a lot about repairs, boat systems and your own personal preferences. Our boat wasn't necessarily a project boat, but it was bare bones, and needed improvements (in our minds). At $9,500 in 2004, I probably spent way more than it was worth. We've spent thousands on the improvements, upgrades and hardware and I'm about to spend thousands more because I want a new engine. In the end, the boat isn't worth any more than the purchase price (if that), even with a new engine. But we plan on enjoying the boat so I continue to make economic decisions that aren't necessarily sound.
At this point, however, I have much more knowledge (and the advantage to buyer may be much stronger). I know there are many jobs and projects that I don't want to get involved with again. If it ever comes to a future choice between similar boats with dramatically different pricetags for the quality and features built into the boat already, I'm not sure that it wouldn't be a bad idea to extend my credit line to pay for the higher priced, higher value option. Would I rather spend money on a loan payment and enjoy a boat with better features immediately, or spend more money on projects, hardware and upgrades, and spend most of my time crawling into cramped locations on the boat and scuffing my knuckles. Hmmm, I think the loan payments may be a better fit for me ...
At this point, however, I have much more knowledge (and the advantage to buyer may be much stronger). I know there are many jobs and projects that I don't want to get involved with again. If it ever comes to a future choice between similar boats with dramatically different pricetags for the quality and features built into the boat already, I'm not sure that it wouldn't be a bad idea to extend my credit line to pay for the higher priced, higher value option. Would I rather spend money on a loan payment and enjoy a boat with better features immediately, or spend more money on projects, hardware and upgrades, and spend most of my time crawling into cramped locations on the boat and scuffing my knuckles. Hmmm, I think the loan payments may be a better fit for me ...
Think of it this way ... if you buy an old boat with the notion of improving it, you will have to pay retail for all of the hardware, canvas, instrumentation, etc.
If you want to buy a similar boat with all of that stuff already on it. Somebody else already paid retail for all that stuff and you basically get to buy it from them at a deep discount.
To me, it makes more sense to even pay interest on a loan, (rates are at what ... 3.5% for home equity line of credit?) to buy expensive items at a great discount than to save money in the short term and pay retail in the long term.
Obviously, this kind of reasoning depends a lot on a person's threshold for risk tolerance and comfort level with debt as well.
Going into debt to pay retail for these items is a different story altogether!
If you want to buy a similar boat with all of that stuff already on it. Somebody else already paid retail for all that stuff and you basically get to buy it from them at a deep discount.
To me, it makes more sense to even pay interest on a loan, (rates are at what ... 3.5% for home equity line of credit?) to buy expensive items at a great discount than to save money in the short term and pay retail in the long term.
Obviously, this kind of reasoning depends a lot on a person's threshold for risk tolerance and comfort level with debt as well.
Going into debt to pay retail for these items is a different story altogether!
Make cents?
I just did it, paid $1599 for a Catalina 22 and a two axle, disc brake trailer.
I got the fin keel model and sure as expected the keel bolts were badly rusted. After two weeks I have chipped enough rust of the nuts to hammer on a six point socket and twist off the studs about an inch down. The boat K53, is in cosmetically good shape. It was said to have a dept finder. That turned out to be a Garmin GPSmap 440, not the 440s that has the sonar capability. No transponder was found. I does have a marine band radio, the antenna lead needs work. There is a 30lbs anchor with 100 feet of rode, and about 10' of zinc platted chain.
My intention, to get one of those free or extremely low cost boats, and haul it home on the trailer. The trailer might take a near 30' full keel boat. I desire an inboard diesel kicker, that I presume in my price range will need lots of work.
My personality defects lead me to adding lots of preliminary steps to each projects. I earned a pilot's license by living at an airport.
Final answer: careful accounting gives an answer that should be subject to overriding by opportunity costs, (or benefits.)
I'm 69 retired on small social security, with an earned degree in economics. I studied craigslist and ebay for about 6 months, before making my deal.
I just did it, paid $1599 for a Catalina 22 and a two axle, disc brake trailer.
I got the fin keel model and sure as expected the keel bolts were badly rusted. After two weeks I have chipped enough rust of the nuts to hammer on a six point socket and twist off the studs about an inch down. The boat K53, is in cosmetically good shape. It was said to have a dept finder. That turned out to be a Garmin GPSmap 440, not the 440s that has the sonar capability. No transponder was found. I does have a marine band radio, the antenna lead needs work. There is a 30lbs anchor with 100 feet of rode, and about 10' of zinc platted chain.
My intention, to get one of those free or extremely low cost boats, and haul it home on the trailer. The trailer might take a near 30' full keel boat. I desire an inboard diesel kicker, that I presume in my price range will need lots of work.
My personality defects lead me to adding lots of preliminary steps to each projects. I earned a pilot's license by living at an airport.
Final answer: careful accounting gives an answer that should be subject to overriding by opportunity costs, (or benefits.)
I'm 69 retired on small social security, with an earned degree in economics. I studied craigslist and ebay for about 6 months, before making my deal.
Where can you find a waterfront condo for $34,000? And one you sail in, to boot. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.gboase said:
Hi Jackdaw,
I believe the answer is Yes!
Our Tempest is 43 years old, bullet proof and like they say, they don’t make them like they use to. Bought it for 2,500, and would expect to be able to sell it today for the same price.
The money we have spent over the years would have been spent on any sailboat we bought, general maintenance / upkeep, so we don’t look at those dollars as an investment.
The money we have invested were Add-ons (anchor platform, Bow and Stern rails, lifelines, wheel steering). We spent the money without out any expectation of getting a return on our investment, the money was spent to improve our families sailing experience, which they have.
We are currently looking at moving up to a much larger sailboat, in all our searches sailboats from the late 70’s early 80’s seems to fit our requirements, our wish list and price range.
We will be looking for sailboats which have been taken care of by their former owners. In my mind, original, well maintained sailboats seem to have the best value which ends up not being overpriced due to recent expensive upgrades where the owner wants almost their entire investment back.
My expectation with our next sailboat is to continue maintaining as the previous owners have and enjoy sailing with my family as much as possible.
I believe the answer is Yes!
Our Tempest is 43 years old, bullet proof and like they say, they don’t make them like they use to. Bought it for 2,500, and would expect to be able to sell it today for the same price.
The money we have spent over the years would have been spent on any sailboat we bought, general maintenance / upkeep, so we don’t look at those dollars as an investment.
The money we have invested were Add-ons (anchor platform, Bow and Stern rails, lifelines, wheel steering). We spent the money without out any expectation of getting a return on our investment, the money was spent to improve our families sailing experience, which they have.
We are currently looking at moving up to a much larger sailboat, in all our searches sailboats from the late 70’s early 80’s seems to fit our requirements, our wish list and price range.
We will be looking for sailboats which have been taken care of by their former owners. In my mind, original, well maintained sailboats seem to have the best value which ends up not being overpriced due to recent expensive upgrades where the owner wants almost their entire investment back.
My expectation with our next sailboat is to continue maintaining as the previous owners have and enjoy sailing with my family as much as possible.
Unless you use a boat commercially for your livelihood, its completely impractical and unnecessary to own a boat. Its a toy. Nobody "needs" a boat, its a want or desire, not a need. If you still "want" a boat after understanding that, does its age or condition really matter?
For many its just a means of escape. Whether its escaping into a project and never leaving yard or dock, or escaping out to the sea, or some combination, the boat is simply the vehicle used to enable that escape. Some escape into an old car restoration, or an old house, or model trains, or an old airplane. But its really just the same thing I think.
But there is nothing wrong with it. We wouldnt have any of our historic artifacts if others before us hadnt done the same. When we see a restored something from our childhood, or something well before even that, if it is something we find interesting our hat is off to the man or men who did it. Sometimes we even shed a tear.
My Father passed away just over a year ago, Sept 26, 2011. The day prior, Sept 25, I was out in the yard and heard a low rumble high overhead. I looked up and saw this long skinny silver airplane with four engines and long skinny wings and a round nose. And looking at it I suddenly felt awe. It was a B-29. I all my years I had never seen one fly, and never saw one pass overhead. But it is such a distinct machine that its not hard to recognize if you have much interest in aviation.
My dad was 89, and having served in WW2 as an aircraft mechanic, often spoke his feelings of many of those great planes from that time. He said a lot about the 29 when I was growing up, and through the years and we visited many air shows and museums, including the Air Force museum in Dayton Ohio some years ago.
As I stood looking at that plane, sadness suddenly overcame me. The plane seemed to be saying it was taking dad home, that he wouldnt be here much longer. I had never felt that way ever before, and I was overwhelmed and stopped looking and tried to brush it off. There was a big airshow coming that next weekend and they were flying in a B-29. We intended to go, but we had a change of events.
Afterwards I looked into the plane and discovered it was stationed in Texas and found a phone number. I had to know. A guy answered and was able to confirm the plane flew down from Omaha that Sunday going to Fayetteville. But I discovered something even more remarkable after I told Dads brother about it. He said there is only one in the world in flyable condition. Her name is Fifi. She was just here again this weekend, to mark the year, but I just couldnt go. I wasnt ready to see her yet.
Dont ever get discouraged fixing up something old or something with a storied past. We wouldnt have that B-29, or boats like Grimalken, and other machines or things if people didnt take on the challenge, and escape into it. The reasons are not always your own that draw you to it.
For many its just a means of escape. Whether its escaping into a project and never leaving yard or dock, or escaping out to the sea, or some combination, the boat is simply the vehicle used to enable that escape. Some escape into an old car restoration, or an old house, or model trains, or an old airplane. But its really just the same thing I think.
But there is nothing wrong with it. We wouldnt have any of our historic artifacts if others before us hadnt done the same. When we see a restored something from our childhood, or something well before even that, if it is something we find interesting our hat is off to the man or men who did it. Sometimes we even shed a tear.
My Father passed away just over a year ago, Sept 26, 2011. The day prior, Sept 25, I was out in the yard and heard a low rumble high overhead. I looked up and saw this long skinny silver airplane with four engines and long skinny wings and a round nose. And looking at it I suddenly felt awe. It was a B-29. I all my years I had never seen one fly, and never saw one pass overhead. But it is such a distinct machine that its not hard to recognize if you have much interest in aviation.
My dad was 89, and having served in WW2 as an aircraft mechanic, often spoke his feelings of many of those great planes from that time. He said a lot about the 29 when I was growing up, and through the years and we visited many air shows and museums, including the Air Force museum in Dayton Ohio some years ago.
As I stood looking at that plane, sadness suddenly overcame me. The plane seemed to be saying it was taking dad home, that he wouldnt be here much longer. I had never felt that way ever before, and I was overwhelmed and stopped looking and tried to brush it off. There was a big airshow coming that next weekend and they were flying in a B-29. We intended to go, but we had a change of events.
Afterwards I looked into the plane and discovered it was stationed in Texas and found a phone number. I had to know. A guy answered and was able to confirm the plane flew down from Omaha that Sunday going to Fayetteville. But I discovered something even more remarkable after I told Dads brother about it. He said there is only one in the world in flyable condition. Her name is Fifi. She was just here again this weekend, to mark the year, but I just couldnt go. I wasnt ready to see her yet.
Dont ever get discouraged fixing up something old or something with a storied past. We wouldnt have that B-29, or boats like Grimalken, and other machines or things if people didnt take on the challenge, and escape into it. The reasons are not always your own that draw you to it.
Wow. lots of great posts. And every one valid. I've learned a lot. People had mentioned this notion that it doesn't matter if its the perfect boat or the so-called 'last boat'. A couple more thoughts:
1) Investment. Several people have said boats are not investments. I beg to differ. They in and of themselves may not be, But they represent a huge investment of your time and money. Now you might never expect a decent ROI story from them, but I think to not see big-picture where you are in a boat, or where you might be when your plans are done is short-sited. Very few of us are on our 'last boat'. I stopped saying that about 3 boats ago. Boat are cheap. Time is not.
2) Ordinary vs extraordinary. To me there is a huge difference between bringing a waterlogged Venture 22 back to life, and saving something like Grimalken from salvage. If the boat (individually or the model) has historical value, or meets your needs like no other boat can, then that makes perfect sense.
3) There always is another boat. I've owned 7, and during the ownership of each one I thought for a good percentage of the time that this is the 'perfect boat' and the 'last boat'. I was wrong in every case, and although my life has had twists and turns the next boat was always better for me at the time. Having made good financial decisions during the ownership always made the move easier.
But man, there are some great stories here. Guys like Squidd and Rgranger are boat heros.
1) Investment. Several people have said boats are not investments. I beg to differ. They in and of themselves may not be, But they represent a huge investment of your time and money. Now you might never expect a decent ROI story from them, but I think to not see big-picture where you are in a boat, or where you might be when your plans are done is short-sited. Very few of us are on our 'last boat'. I stopped saying that about 3 boats ago. Boat are cheap. Time is not.
2) Ordinary vs extraordinary. To me there is a huge difference between bringing a waterlogged Venture 22 back to life, and saving something like Grimalken from salvage. If the boat (individually or the model) has historical value, or meets your needs like no other boat can, then that makes perfect sense.
3) There always is another boat. I've owned 7, and during the ownership of each one I thought for a good percentage of the time that this is the 'perfect boat' and the 'last boat'. I was wrong in every case, and although my life has had twists and turns the next boat was always better for me at the time. Having made good financial decisions during the ownership always made the move easier.
But man, there are some great stories here. Guys like Squidd and Rgranger are boat heros.
Economic Sense
Yes, I think restoring a boat from the 70s and maybe the 80s makes economic sense. I base that primarily on the principal method of hull construction in that era. Try to find a "modern" sailboat these days with a solid fiberglass hull that is constructed using roven mat fiberglass and hand layed up with epoxy resin. As long as the hull and rig are in good shape, the additional expense to repower and refit are well worth the effort.
Economic sense??? Well, that's another matter altogether. Boats are an expense; not an investment. However, compare what one needs to pay out for a new mid-30 foot sailboat to a comparable 70s model. An older boat will not be as shiny as the newer one, but it'll likely be better built with materials that last. The next time you are at a boat show, carefully inspect the interior cabinetry and other fittings. You may be surprised at what is considered acceptable. New doesn't necessarily mean more sea worthy.
Yes, I think restoring a boat from the 70s and maybe the 80s makes economic sense. I base that primarily on the principal method of hull construction in that era. Try to find a "modern" sailboat these days with a solid fiberglass hull that is constructed using roven mat fiberglass and hand layed up with epoxy resin. As long as the hull and rig are in good shape, the additional expense to repower and refit are well worth the effort.
Economic sense??? Well, that's another matter altogether. Boats are an expense; not an investment. However, compare what one needs to pay out for a new mid-30 foot sailboat to a comparable 70s model. An older boat will not be as shiny as the newer one, but it'll likely be better built with materials that last. The next time you are at a boat show, carefully inspect the interior cabinetry and other fittings. You may be surprised at what is considered acceptable. New doesn't necessarily mean more sea worthy.
My 22' 1967 Columbia Sailboat
I was given a 22' 1967 Columbia sailboat about 3 years ago... I had never been sailing in my life... And I'm 60 years old... In the last 3 years I have restored this little gem of mine.. I've probably spent 10,000.00 or more...and did all the work myself.. But had so much fun watching her grow!! Also I have since taken sailing classes and have sailed maybe around 120 times on her... I also have rented (leased) several larger sailboats 31',35', 42' and also a 38'Lagoon Cat..my little sailboat isn't worth the money and man hours I have put into her...BUT I love the slip payment and the low maintenance she requires...
QUOTE=Jackdaw;964030]A general question. Does it still make economic sense to bring a generic old fiberglass boat from the 70s or 80s back to life?
I'm talking about a boat that needs major work, that was obtained for little or no cost.
In the past the vibrant market for used boats made this worthwhile in many cases. Now, with the market for older used boats at an all-time low, I'm having a hard time in seeing how any of this makes sense. The only exception I see is specialty boats, limited editions, or boats with other factors that make them candidates for restoration. No Catalina 25s need apply. No disrespect intended to C25s. I owned one and loved it.
I hear of people doing total restores on flooded 24 footers and I wonder how that works out. You find a basketcase, and spend 2000 bucks and 200 hours of your time to turn a free boat into a $2000 boat. And everything that you didn't replace is still old.
I'm not saying don't get an good old boat. Just spend the money up front and buy the BEST one you can find. Any boat that needs major work does not make sense.
EDIT - From my 2nd post below to clarify and consolidate my posts.....
I agree with everyone that talks about emotional investment. I've brought several boats back from the dead. And I totally honor any effort anyone makes to do so.
But I'm looking at it from the start. Never before has the value of 'sweat equity' been so low. You can do tons of work on a low-cost boat, to bring it up to the value of a boat you could have bought for a bit more, often for LESS then the cost it too you to get the basket case there. And you get to enjoy that better boat right away. Thats my question really.
Am I the only one thinking like this? Maybe as I get older my time is worth more. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
I was given a 22' 1967 Columbia sailboat about 3 years ago... I had never been sailing in my life... And I'm 60 years old... In the last 3 years I have restored this little gem of mine.. I've probably spent 10,000.00 or more...and did all the work myself.. But had so much fun watching her grow!! Also I have since taken sailing classes and have sailed maybe around 120 times on her... I also have rented (leased) several larger sailboats 31',35', 42' and also a 38'Lagoon Cat..my little sailboat isn't worth the money and man hours I have put into her...BUT I love the slip payment and the low maintenance she requires...
QUOTE=Jackdaw;964030]A general question. Does it still make economic sense to bring a generic old fiberglass boat from the 70s or 80s back to life?
I'm talking about a boat that needs major work, that was obtained for little or no cost.
In the past the vibrant market for used boats made this worthwhile in many cases. Now, with the market for older used boats at an all-time low, I'm having a hard time in seeing how any of this makes sense. The only exception I see is specialty boats, limited editions, or boats with other factors that make them candidates for restoration. No Catalina 25s need apply. No disrespect intended to C25s. I owned one and loved it.
I hear of people doing total restores on flooded 24 footers and I wonder how that works out. You find a basketcase, and spend 2000 bucks and 200 hours of your time to turn a free boat into a $2000 boat. And everything that you didn't replace is still old.
I'm not saying don't get an good old boat. Just spend the money up front and buy the BEST one you can find. Any boat that needs major work does not make sense.
EDIT - From my 2nd post below to clarify and consolidate my posts.....
I agree with everyone that talks about emotional investment. I've brought several boats back from the dead. And I totally honor any effort anyone makes to do so.
But I'm looking at it from the start. Never before has the value of 'sweat equity' been so low. You can do tons of work on a low-cost boat, to bring it up to the value of a boat you could have bought for a bit more, often for LESS then the cost it too you to get the basket case there. And you get to enjoy that better boat right away. Thats my question really.
Am I the only one thinking like this? Maybe as I get older my time is worth more. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
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