Desperate leaking

[jssailem]

to measure the "tightness",

Riggers use a Loos Gauge to measure the tension on the shrouds. The tension is balanced port and starboard to maintain the mast vertically in column.


It is possible to have the rig "too tight". The rig forces the mast down against the keel. The is how the power of the sail is transferred to the boat hull.

 

[Davidasailor26]

A Loos Gauge is the easiest way, but there is an alternative method presented by Selden in their tuning guide at https://support.seldenmast.com/files/595-540-E.pdf. The downside of their folding rule method in your case is that you need to start with the rig slack, then measure the stretch of the shrouds as you tighten them. So you’d need to loosen the rig and then tighten it back to where it is now to measure its tension.

With practice you can also approximate the tension by feel. There really shouldn’t be any slack in the shrouds, so depending on what you mean by there being no flex that might be ok.

 

[Tally Ho]

Best bet would be to try and borrow a Loos gauge (note that there a few sizes depending on wire size) and measure your shrouds and stays. Get them set where you want them and then ”get the feel” of them so you can tell if they get loose. You can buy a PT 2 gauge on Amazon for about $120. But you really don’t use it that often unless you are taking the mast down each season.

Too tight is as bad as too loose…and may do more damage (Mast step, compression post, chain plates, etc.).

Greg

 

[jviss]

Too tight is as bad as too loose…and may do more damage (Mast step, compression post, chain plates, etc.).

Did you notice he said the hull was broken by too-tight shrouds already?

 

[Tally Ho]

Did you notice he said the hull was broken by too-tight shrouds already?

I did, but I was thinking about the comment by @Davidasailor26…

”There really shouldn’t be any slack in the shrouds, so depending on what you mean by there being no flex that might be ok.”

Greg

 

[Davidasailor26]

Did you notice he said the hull was broken by too-tight shrouds already?

The hull was broken, and the shrouds were tight enough that they didn’t visibly flex. One may or may not be related to the other. I wouldn’t want to set my rig all slack without knowing its current tension for sure.

 

[jviss]

The hull was broken, and the shrouds were tight enough that they didn’t visibly flex. One may or may not be related to the other.

Yes, indeed. Or one may be related to the other. If my boat broke as his did, and my shrouds were as tight as his - I don't know, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure this out.

 

[Richard19068]

Just curious. How many of you have ever before heard of a hull being cracked by over tightened standing rigging with a keel stepped mast?
Is it common?
This boat has an encapsulated keel right?

 

[Hayden Watson]

Just curious. How many of you have ever before heard of a hull being cracked by over tightened standing rigging with a keel stepped mast?
Is it common?
This boat has an encapsulated keel right?

I have only heard of one failure of that type and the boat went down in less than a minute and a half. It did not crack the bottom of the hull but crushed the deck in compression.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I would like to see some photos of the crack in the hull.

 

[Halvern]

Friend thinks possible that an extra low tide could have set her on the bottom with too much weight on keel forcing the crack. But when I look real close the crack looks like the edges are spreading out. Only thing I can think to do is to clean out the crack, then see how much I will have to grind back and then prep for several layers of glass. This is all new to me so bear with me if I seem to ramble on.
Thanks

 

[Halvern]

Anyone have an idea how I can find out what tension would be correct for the shrouds? I called Tiara Yachts in Michigan (S2 builder back in the day), without any luck.

 

[Halvern]

Hayden, you are correct, it does have an encapsulated keel.
Hal

 

[Richard19068]

Anyone have an idea how I can find out what tension would be correct for the shrouds? I called Tiara Yachts in Michigan (S2 builder back in the day), without any luck.

This might give you some idea.

How to use 90 & 91 Series Tension Gauges - Loos & Company, Inc. - Cableware Division

Cable Fittings USA Manufacturer, Mil Spec Wire Rope Terminals and Swaging Tools.

loosnaples.com

Rope & Assemblies Division - Website Announcement

Loosco, Loos Cableware, Strand Core, and Sanlo will now operate under loosco.com, unifying the multiple facilities in the Rope & Assemblies division.

loosnaples.com

 

[Davidasailor26]

Friend thinks possible that an extra low tide could have set her on the bottom with too much weight on keel forcing the crack.

Most boats are designed to hold the weight of the boat on their keel. When a boat is laid up on the hard the general practice is to rest the majority of the boat’s weight on the keel, and only use the jack stands to keep it stable. There are a few boats that don’t follow that rule but the examples I’ve seen are generally winged keels. If the ground is hard and the boat were rocked or bounced repeatedly that could be an issue, but just sitting static should be fine.

Anyone have an idea how I can find out what tension would be correct for the shrouds? I called Tiara Yachts in Michigan (S2 builder back in the day), without any luck.

As Richard posted the tension is based on a percentage of the breaking strength of the wire. That depends on wire size, not anything else really boat specific. The Selden Tuning Guide I linked above goes into the process of setting the right tensions.

 

[Mark Maulden]

I think I would also check the chainplates all the way to the hull..

 

[Hayden Watson]

It would be helpful if we could see some photos of the crack (both closce up and back for perspective) so that we have a better idea what you are looking at. If the crack is in an area that is subject to a significant amount of stress, it is likely that you will need to grind the hull down to the full depth of the hull and then grind a 12:1 taper and put on as many layers as needed to brink it back to the finished surface.

 

[Halvern]

Mark and Hayden
I have several photos, problem is I don’t know how to get them out of my photos on my cell phone to send to you guys. Ok call me ignorant

 

[Crusty Ol Salt]

Mark and Hayden
I have several photos, problem is I don’t know how to get them out of my photos on my cell phone to send to you guys. Ok call me ignorant

I upload my pictures to here using a free account.

Postimages — free image hosting / image upload

Provides free image upload and hosting integration for forums. Free picture hosting and photo sharing for websites and blogs.

postimages.org

Copy the "Hotlink for forums:" and paste in your reply.

 

[Halvern]

Mark
Sent photo to your email, would you forward to forum while I try to learn how
Tnx
Hal