Cabin heater opinions wanted

[Roger Long]

I need to add cabin heat to my boat. Best option because of space limitations and a desire for hot water would be an Espar water circulating system but is will be as much as a new set of sails and all new standing rigging even if I do the whole installation myself. Unless something unexpected happens, I can't swing that and still the the cruising that requires the heater.

I just went up to measure and look at the cabin and there are two options for either a diesel or solid fuel heater which would be less than half the cost:

I can remove the cabin table and shelf unit and install a stanchion at the aft end of the existing table and build a new, shorter table that mounts on a piece S.S. lifeline tubing between the mast support and the stanchion. The stanchion and table would make moving around in the boat underway a lot easier and I sail with few enough people now that I could live with a smaller table.

This would give me enough room for a floor mounted heater next to the mast support. Two problems: I would have to give up being able to convert the port berth to a double but I seldom carry the fill in cushion anyway. I can live with that. The big problem is that the only possible smoke head location is right next to the mast on the side where I raise the main and reef. I would have to cap it when sailing and would be dropping the halyard coil directly on top of it. Having the heater at floor level would be nice though because it is my feet that feel the cold the most.

There is also room to cut into the hanging locker on the other side and build a tile lined alcove that would keep the heater well away from the berth. I can get 10 1/2" depth. I don't use those drawers much anyway. The deck space on this side is not nearly as precious as there is little line handling there except when raising or lowering the roller jib. The most attractive thing about this option is being able to use a Sigmar with an air intake from deck to avoid back drafting problems when it's gusty or the companionway has to be opened. The second duct could run through the locker and I could put "Y" on it to draw air from inside the boat when I want to dry things out and it isn't too windy. The main drawback of this arrangement is that the heater is mid height in the cabin which means a cold floor.

WHICH would you do?

 

[Bad Obsession]

What about a Mr. Heater? It is portable.

The down side is that it does use the small propane tanks but I believe it can be converted to run off of a big tank. They are supposedly safe but no system is fool proof and it isn't a bad idea to have a good CO2 detector aboard anyways!

http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=41&id=116

Just a suggestion so you don't have to make major modifications!

 

[zeehag]

use , only in winter, those bathroom fuzzy rugs on the floor --pick them up in spring when the floor warms a bit--they will scatter ye to the winds!! but in winter they are awesome!!------this added to your heating system should be good......!!

 

[Ross]

Roger, When folk heated homes with woodstoves the stove pipe run was often from the middle of the room to an outside wall. You don't HAVE to go straight up. An aluminum heat shield set on stand offs would protect the cabin top from excessive heat.
One inch lantern wicks are good for about 1500 btu's each so you could heat with lanterns.

 

[zeehag]

Roger, When folk heated homes with woodstoves the stove pipe run was often from the middle of the room to an outside wall. You don't HAVE to go straight up. An aluminum heat shield set on stand offs would protect the cabin top from excessive heat.
One inch lantern wicks are good for about 1500 btu's each so you could heat with lanterns.

lanterns work great--i have warmed inside my formosa 41 in 38 degree weather up to 71 degrees----windy and wet--with 4 regular sized lanterns and one trawler lamp--(huge sized --was free--cant complain)....LOL....

 

[Ross]

http://www.lanternnet.com/
link to a very good company.

 

[Sumner]

Best solution I can think of is that we do a boat swap during the winter months. Our .....

.....little cabin and V-berth are very easy to keep warm in, almost all that is needed is body warmth. If you make a cup of coffee you probably have it warmed up just fine.

Now we could drop off our boat in say October and leave it with you so that you would have a boat to use over the winter. Then we could take yours down south to southern Florida and keep it there for you over the winter months and you could fly down and go out on it any time you want 'with us'. Then come spring we would head north and you could have the boat back for the summer months.

That will work for us, although it might take us a while to adjust to the slightly .........

.....larger accommodations of your boat, but we will struggle through the adjustment period .

c ya,

Sum and Ruth maybe future Endeavour 32 owners

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[Roger Long]

I've gone back and added EMPHASIS caps to the word WHICH (would you do). I've already thought of charcoal grills sitting on a pile of sand, hamsters in little wheels running generators, long extension cords, etc.

 

[Roger Long]

You don't HAVE to go straight up.

I never planned to and it wouldn't be an option anyway. It's a matter of obstructions on deck. I would need a couple of 45 degree elbows with either option.

 

[zeehag]

I've gone back and added EMPHASIS caps to the word WHICH (would you do). I've already thought of charcoal grills sitting on a pile of sand, hamsters in little wheels running generators, long extension cords, etc.

roger--i think your system you talked about with the port berth .....is a good one -suplement with oil lamps and uggs boots and slidey rugs lol--makes it warm and toasty....

 

[Bob S]

Roger,

My dad had an Espar heater on his Gulfstar. He lived aboard for five years in NE. His was a hot air version. There where 2" vents all over the boat. If I remember right the heat was generated by a Beckett burner. It really kept the boat warm. The cabin is very uncomfortable when it gets cold. You'll have to post pictures when you complete your project. BTW The boat looks great.

I remember you lost your barn? Are you working under a tarp?

 

[Maine Sail]

WHICH would you do?

A Dickinson Newport LP heater would fit nicely where that shelf is. They make a 9K BTU and a 12K BTU both with sealed combustion and a small computer type fan to circulate the warm air.. I'll give you my Force Ten if you'd fix the hole in my cabin side left by the vent pipe..

It's there on the port side...

 

[KandD]

I have an electric ceramic space heater that will keep my aft cabin at about 85 -90 and heats the whole boat (40') to probably 65 if the doors are open. I also added a second for the main cabin when we had our 20 degree nights. I run on 30 amps so I turn one off if I need the microwave and that would only help if your at the pier, but it's a $20 solution if your not cruising.

 

[rpwillia]

Bring along the folks on this forum

You will have so much hot air you will be toasty warm.

On a more serious note how long would you be out, typical outside temperatures, ... could help narrow the choices. For a temporary thing how about hanging a small kerosene heater.

 

[Sumner]

Sorry about the distraction and I'll try to be more constructive. I've heated with.......

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/newhouse/newhouse-stove.html

............... "only" wood heat since the 70's (stove in foreground). Yes you can run some horizontal pipe, but it better not be very far or the stove is not going to draw right and you will have real smoke and creosote buildup problems.

I have a gas stove in the present....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/newhouse/newhouse43.html

....house (stove in the background to the left) as it is hard to get insurance if you tell them that a wood stove is your primary heat source. I haven't used it in years and it does have a section of horizontal pipe also. I am about at the limits for it to be considered safe. I would get the instructions for any of the stoves you are considering and see what configurations the pipe runs need to conform to for safe use. Also on a house you have to be very careful (codes dictate this) how close the exhaust is to an opening, window, in the house, so that fumes don't re-enter the house. You would want to be careful of this on a boat also.

When you said "solid fuel" by that are you considering wood or coal? I love wood heat, but it would not be my choice for a boat.

Regardless of what you choose, since heat goes up it is going to be very hard to get the warmth you desire at floor level. I've combated that with the outside air intake for the wood stove. The reason for the two pipes coming down from the ceiling. With an outside air source for the stove you are accomplishing a couple things. If the fire gets its oxygen from the room you need to replace that oxygen with more air from outside. One thing that happens is you create a draft from the outside towards and to the stove. That is going to bring cold air in from the outside via an opening however small and that cold air will drop and move towards the stove cooling the floor area. If you burn room air it has to be replace and it will find its way in from the outside and if it doesn't then you are also in real trouble.

The other negative is that now you brought cold air into the boat that has to be heated also. I would only consider a stove that had its own outside air intake for those reasons.

I have circulation problems and can relate to the cold feet. I help with that in the winter by wearing long underwear even in the house and at times a hat. Keep your core warmer and your feet will be warmer. Then something like the Mr. Heater or ......

....Coleman BlackCat EI that you could use where you are sitting. I realize that wasn't one of the two options, but it is worth consideration for the feet.

c ya and good luck,

Sum

 

[Ross]

If posible mount the heater on or near the floor. That is where the cold air stays. you could build a cage over the smoke cap to protect it and any lines.

 

[RAD88]

I use an Origo Heat Mate heater. Portable, stable and inexpensive. They can be had in either the old or new style for anywhere from $20 to $200. They emit carbon di-oxide so there is no chance of deadly fumes and the fuel is cheap. I highly recommend this a an alternative to an installed model.

 

[Rick D]

Ditto Origo. We have had ours for 15 years. 5000 btu. Works very well. Have to keep a port cracked for air. We are in a temperate area, however.

 

[Roger Long]

A Dickinson Newport LP heater would fit nicely where that shelf is.

It's going to be either diesel or solid fuel. I'm putting this in for cruises to NS and Newfoundland where those are the only two fuels I can count on getting easily. I don't want propane on my boat and I don't have a place to carry it anyway. There are two built in cockpit lockers for propane on the E32 but they are for the uncommon small bottles and are defective in design so they won't vent overboard.

Solid fuel has a big hassle factor but the advantages of lower installation cost and the ability to scavenge driftwood if I was stranded or disabled somewhere remote. That could be a lifesaver. It will also turn paper towels, can labels, etc. into something useful and reduce the volume of trash to pack to the next port. It's running a pretty distant second though.

I can carry 38 gallons of diesel on my boat and cruise under power at 10 miles per gallon so diesel is a pretty tempting fuel source.

 

[Sumner]

......Solid fuel has a big hassle factor but the advantages of lower installation cost and the ability to scavenge driftwood if I was stranded or disabled somewhere remote. That could be a lifesaver. It will also turn paper towels, can labels, etc. into something useful and reduce the volume of trash to pack to the next port. It's running a pretty distant second though............

As I said I love wood heat. The radiant heat would help with the foot problem when near it. It is quiet, no blowers, but unless the boat is really large I think it has too many draw backs.

It takes a lot of wood to get the same BTU's from wood as from diesel. It is going to require a considerable larger storage area for it. It has to be kept dry. If the wood is not aged and dried and I would really suspect drift wood as not being in this category most of the heat generated from the wood fire will go back into the wood to dry it and lower the moisture content to where it will burn. I go to great lengths to get dead, aged wood in the first place. All the wood around here comes off of Federal Land, either National Forest or BLM and you are only allowed to cut dead trees. Once I get the wood I try to age and dry it for an additional year before I burn it Green or wet wood is going to give off very little heat.

The amount of heat you are going to get from burning your trash is going to be insignificant.

You have to be able to clean the chimney of a wood stove or sooner or later the creosote will build up to the point that the stove won't draft and will catch on fire and you will have an uncontrollable chimney fire. I clean my chimney at least twice a year. To clean it you need a straight run. That eliminates the 45's unless you take it apart to clean it. Looking at your interior you aren't going to want to do that.

Unless you have baffling (heat shields/deflectors) around the stove or nearby objects you will need at least 3 feet of clearance between the stove and anything combustible (the reason mine is in the middle of the room for one).

The chimney outside of the cabin really should be insulated pipe to help with the creosote problem. In your case if it was a straight shot down to the stove and you could clean the pipe easily I wouldn't worry about that, but it is another 'code' thing on a house.

Go with the diesel,

Sum