buy macgregor or not?

[Sumner]

I don't think the poster is a troll as she also posted the following quote on the Mac Forum where she posted about the same question that she did on this forum...

We are looking at the MacGregor S or X. We do want to keep in in the water during the sailing season and potentially trailer it on a trip or two.

Thank you for your response.

Sounds to me that they are looking for something that they can take someplace else also. If that is the case then a trailer sailor is about the only option. I think the "family thing" mentioned above is also a big thing with a number of younger Mac owners. They often post that they would maybe like a different boat themselves, but the wife prefers a power boat and that it is nice to pull the kids or grand kids around on a water toy. If that is important to them, why are we hassling them about which boat they should buy.

Because a boat has floatation does not mean it is unsafe and should be avoided. Is your car unsafe because it has an air bag? I don't think that it is a bad deal knowing that a boat will float if holed. Ours still has the floatation in it, but it might no longer be enough.

I personally don't blame her for not coming back here and wading into all of the above. Reading the above I read posts from previous or current owners who have provided relevant information based on actual experiences with a MacGregor and then there is the usual cast of people who have probably never even been on any Mac, but hate them for whatever reason and feel compelled to warn everyone else away from them.

If you hate Macs then at least tell her what her options are as far as other trailerable boats that are also easy to launch. Make sure that it is one that can also sail in conditions that according to you that a Mac can't.

Sum

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[dlandersson]

Scott,

I'm not sure you have any idea - you are thinking of the Skyway - not I80/I94 - which is NOT the Skyway. I80/I94 - connecting to I294 - IS pretty - smaller towns and nature.

 

[dlandersson]

Sumner,

Nicely put.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Right, I know 94 isn't the same roadway as 90 (except where they join to become the Dan Ryan. I don't think of 94 as it swings up into Chicago as rural. It seems pretty industrial to me.

I'm thinking that you are offended because I think of northwest Indiana as an industrial nightmare. I guess that comes naturally. People in New Jersey are offended when New Yorkers make fun of New Jersey. Let's get over the petty stuff.

If it helps any, I always look forward to getting through Ohio so that I can drive thru northeastern Indiana before getting to Chicago. The rural nature of Indiana is far more appealing and relaxing to me than Ohio (which just about bores me to death). I always feel like the truckers are going to run me over in Ohio and they seem to disappear in Indiana ... I don't know why that is.

It also surprises me how close you get to the lakeshore and Chicago before you get to that area that I think of as an industrial nightmare. I can't help it that Hammond, Gary, Whiting and Calumet is what it is, ok?

 

[dlandersson]

Scott,

I am not offended because you think of NW Indiana as an industrial nightmare.

As a CIS professor and former SO commander, I deplore your sloppy description of the area. It's like characterizing Cook county based on the loop area.

The view from the Skyway (as short as it is) is clearly all you remember of the area that is part of the national park service. Again, you should stick to your back yard in NY.

 

[Jackdaw]

Scott,

I am not offended because you think of NW Indiana as an industrial nightmare.

As a CIS professor and former SO commander, I deplore your sloppy description of the area. It's like characterizing Cook county based on the loop area.

The view from the Skyway (as short as it is) is clearly all you remember of the area that is part of the national park service. Again, you should stick to your back yard in NY.

Might I suggest that you stop trying to pick apart well reasoned augments with pedantic points? Scott (and Sumner) are long time members and well respected here. If posts were birthdays you would not be able to drink yet.

In various forms this discussion has been played out before. And it will again. And we all try and stay civil.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Last I checked, my backyard is New Jersey. We're not very close to New York at all ... so who is being sloppy? What have I been inaccurate or sloppy about? For a professor and former commander, please try to be specific about your criticism.

Are you saying that Cook County can't be characterized by downtown Chicago? I was born in Cook County and lived there until I was 34 years old. The Cook County building is in the loop. In fact it shares the same building as City Hall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_City_Hall

Is it time to stop the nonsense yet?

 

[finding41]

The trailering is a huge part of our decision. We can explore. The reason I got a Mac 26D was the ease and speed of setup and tear down. Also the water ballast and aft bunk size. I don't find it a problem hauling around my boat and I'm using a Dodge Caravan. Its close to the towing weight limit when everything is loaded for the weekend but it works for now.
I live smack in the middle of 4 of the great lakes. I plan on at least an hour one way. I could drop it in the local conservation area lake (@ $16/) but in the summer it isn't fit for swimming. There is a website listing pay and free boat launches around Ontario. I dont know about the US.
There seem to be allot of bridges to go under if you launch in the river in Chicago. I would get a Mac with the mast raising thingey.

 

[Capt. Kermie]

OK T-Bird
There is a program called "ActiveCaptain" google it and then log into it. It is populated by boaters for boaters. I just took a quick peak around Chicago area, nothing extensive, I just zoomed in close enough to have the markers populate the screen and saw no shortage of them, marinas abound and most if not all marinas have a launch ramp or lift of sorts. Keep in mind this program only has what boaters report and there are a number of sports fisherman who keep their launches the best kept secrets, they don't want any overcrowding. In my little neck of the woods there are no less than 8 ramps within a few miles of me, some of them are not reported on AC as they are local knowledge only but they are there. I am not familiar with the Great Lakes area, but I am familiar with supply and demand and I would bet that if one looked around a bit closer they would find some of those ramps you think don't exist, you just have to know where to look and have access to local knowledge. As for the road travel side of the equation well, sometimes life sucks and you have to drive where you do, I don't build the highway structure but I have to drive it. Out of the 8 ramps in my vacinity I will admit that I would only use 3 of them because the other 5 are a bit inconvenient or located where I do not wish to sail but I can and would launch my canoe (or a 12' aluminum with outboard) from all 8 of them. One more point, I did not realize I had so many options so nearby until I started taking a closer look, my what a surprise I had! If I expand my search a few miles further there will be a dozen or more options beyond the 8. And this is small town Vancouver, we have not reached the size of some of the cities of USA. Oh, and where I live is small town, just a little suburb of Vancouver called Delta and we have 8 spots to launch a small craft from, 2 are cartop only. It is surprising what you can find when you look hard enough and you have a small boat, my canoe is the reason I know about the out of the way secrets.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Kermie, you didn't look on Lake Michigan, did you ... There are no private marinas, all harbors are owned by the City (although I'm not sure about that one way down by Calumet). You don't know very much about Chicago, do you ... Do you really think there are secret ramps that are in out of the way places? Have you ever driven Lake Shore Drive to know how ridiculous that sounds? How many marinas did you find in the northern suburbs that are on Lake Michigan ... none, right?

How many are located on the rivers (not useable by sailboats, except with the mast down) and small lakes in Lake County? The poster seemed to express a desire to know about suitablilty specifically related to Lake Michigan. That is what I am responding to, not other destinations, which are relatively few around Chicago anyway. Did you know that the land around Chicago is principally a former prarie and is now a vast farmland? Yes, small lakes abound in Wisconsin, Michigan and some parts of Indiana and northern Illinois, but sailing on a small cruiser is generally focused on Lake Michigan unless you are thinking the larger reservoirs in southern Illinois, hours away.

We're talking about sailboats, right? not bass boats?

Look, I'm not trying to sell the poster on any one thing or the other! It makes no difference to me what their desires and intentions may be. I'm just stating the circumstances as I see them.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=chicago+area+boat+ramps

http://www.trailerboats.com/output.cfm?id=945523

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Ha! Nice touch Mr. Bill! (I like the message)

It doesn't appear that you are very familiar with boating in Chicago, either! Yes, I already mentioned that Burnham seems to be the only location useful for launching a MacGregor. The references indicate that there is a launch ramp with parking facilities and the location of the ramp is open to the lake. At Diversey, which also has a ramp and parking facilities, a low bridge makes it impossible to step the mast at the launch ramp. This facility is for power boats. Same goes for the inner harbor at Jackson.

All the other harbors mention a launch fee but there is no mention of a ramp or parking facilities. This would be an important detail, would it not? I think "launch" means that they have a small crane for dinghy sailors, like the kind of crane that they use at Lake Hopatcong for Star class boats and such. I could be wrong, but I couldn't find any ramp and parking facilities at any of the other harbors, namely Montrose, Belmont, Monroe, DuSable, 59th, or Jackson outer harbor. If a small crane works for launching a MacGregor then I guess they work, but it doesn't sound like there have parking facilities for the trailer. I zoomed in with google maps and couldn't find any ramp locations. I think you can see where a small crane can lift a dinghy sailer over the bulkhead at these locations that mention "launch fee" but don't seem to have a ramp or parking facilities for trailers.

This doesn't sound like much opportunity for a city population of 3 Million or so, does it?

Launching somewhere on the Chicago River doesn't work very well. Do you know how many bridges have to open to get thru to the lake if you have your mast up? And finally there is the lock that you have to go thru but that is the least of the complications. If you think the Calumet River is an option, think again. The bank is lined with massively high bulkheads for the huge freighters that line up there. It's not exactly friendly for recreational boaters and it is miles from where a sailor wants to be anyway. Did they actually mention the Sanitary and Shipping Canal? Come on, Man. Do you actually think you would step a mast there?

So it really comes down to Burnham Harbor for the entire city, and that is in the heart of downtown, not exactly an easy drive or a convenient location for trailer sailer. And we still haven't established if there are ANY useful ramps between Burnham Harbor and Waukegan which is maybe 60 miles of lakeshore to the north!

It's odd that there haven't been any Chicago sailors to relate their knowledge of the area! dlandersson is close, being in Indiana, but he just suggests that Indiana is a perfectly reasonable destination for all Chicago Area trailer sailers. I can't argue with that, if it is indeed the closest alternative to Burnham Harbor!

Actually, I posted here tonight to make peace! I really don't have any hard feelings towards anybody in this forum. As you all can probably tell, I speak my mind and I am argumentative. I get that from my mother ... she was exhausting as an argumentative person!

It would be helpful for the original poster to tell us more about what they know and want so comments could be more focused. I think that many people often relate to what they know and think that it is the same for just about everybody else. Kermie wants to relate this circumstance to what he knows in Vancouver, yet he refuses to acknowldedge that circumstances in Chicago could be entirely different. I'm just stating what I think may be a difficult situation to overcome for a trailer sailer. Even the small lakes that I know of are not very accessible. The lake where I learned to sail has NO public ramps, only private ramps for property owners. I can't think of a nearby lake that is large enough to even see a boat such as a MacGregor 26 except the Chain of Lakes, which is closer to Wisconsin than Chicago, and even they are separated by channels and low bridges so that sailboats can't really interconnect easily.

Lake Michigan really isn't friendly for trailer sailers as far as I can tell and I think my comments reflect that. It would be helpful to hear from a Chicago area sailor!

 

[Dalliance]

Wow. This is quite the thread. Scott is pretty much on target. Lake Michigan is volatile. There are days that are perfect for a light weight trailer sailer and there are days that would be deadly for such a boat. The thing to understand is that Lake Michigan often changes from perfect to dangerous in minutes.

Most trailerable boats in Chicago harbors are launched in the spring, spend the season on a can or slip, and are pulled out in the fall. The Air & Water Show and holiday weekends do bring influxes of smaller trailered boats. More power than sail though, and always a few that simply do not belong on the Lake.

Access to Diversey Harbor requires driving through city streets in one of the most densely populated areas of the city. No one in their right mind does that more than twice a year, but then Diversey is for power boats only...
Access to Burnham Park Harbor, while it is right downtown, is actually pretty easy without negotiating downtown streets. Just take 90/94 east to 55 north which runs into northbound Lake Shore Drive and the first exit is 18th Street for McCormick Place, Soldier Field, the Museum Campus and Burnham Harbor. The majority of boats in Burnham are not trailered though.

I had never given any thought to the ease of trailer access to Burnham before. I do the Chicago River trip for launch and haul out. One lock and 24 draw bridges right through downtown. Spectacular view of the city. About 90 minutes with the mast down. Mast up, usually 4 to 6 hours in scheduled groups of up to two dozen sailboats.

 

[dlandersson]

The original post:

"My husband and I have seriously been considering buying a MacGregor...however, we are getting a lot of different feedback on whether this is a good thing or not. One seller has told us it's not fun on Lake Michigan since it can't handle anything but calm waters since it doesn't have a keel."

As you noted (finally) there are lots of unanswered questions. The poster does not mention the desireability of frequent launching vs. getting a slip. The poster also mentions "it doesn't have a keel" - depending on the make and model, it does have a keel or a daggerboard.

I am not familiar with the north side of Chicago - and (unlike you) I will not attempt to make claims about something I am not sure about. I DO know that Dusable and Montrose have several Macs (I know of six in Dusable) - and they got there SOMEHOW.

I agree it would be nice for someone based in downtown Chicago to post, but they probably have lives - and for all I know, you've chased them off in the past. As you noted "I speak my mind and I am argumentative" - so they may have decided in the past not put up with BS from you.

As you note, "it would be helpful for the original poster to tell us more about what they know and want so comments could be more focused. I think that many people often relate to what they know and think that it is the same for just about everybody else." I agree with this.

We don't really know enough to give relevant advice at this point. We DO know that I don't know much about the north side and that you know very little about the south side - and that the prevailing wind in CHicago is different from the south side.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

Wait, Did I get redirected to this Sailing Anarchy? LOL!



Macgregor talks always brings out the best and worst in people.

For a point of reference, jack and/or scott, have you sailed on a macgregor? which model? (huge differences in models over time).

I sure no expert, but I've been sailing and racing for a while now... Sure mac's are lightly built, and use a lot of auto part's instead of marine grade components, but they sell a boat load of them, for a lot longer than many mfg's, and there are plenty still out there every weekend.

They do a few things well:
Cabin space, trailering, cost, and for my model sail pretty good. Powersailors don't sail as well, but can motor faster than most sailboats of similar size. I think of them like a swiss army knife, good all around tool, but there are better ones for a certain purpose. the are also easily customized. most nice ones are heavily modified by owners.

-I could argue specifics on a point by point basis, but that is not why I come here.

If the PO wants a traillersailor, is new to sailing, has a (small) budget, the S (1990-1995) or, X 95-2000? Macgregor is not a bad choice.

The S is around 8k, and the X is around 14k, in decent shape. (BTW, the X does not sail as well as the latest version, the M). -the X is the power sailor, and S (and D) are classic's, all water ballast boats.

There are some weaknesses to these boats. which I could discuss, if you like.

but they are not bad boat for what they are.... just like catalina is a decent boat, for what it is... but neither are in the same class as a J-24's or pacifica's.

-but who's wants to cruise on a J boat? or race a pacifica

btw, I've sailed on lake Ho-pat-cong... Where are you on the lake?
I thought there were too many large power boats going round and round... and not enough wind... but I hate the on/off winds of lakes in general.
:stirthepot:


Ha! everyone deleted their posts!

 

[ualpow]

We were thinking of getting a slip in Chicago harbor system. It was the price/hassle/rules that made us look elsewhere. We ended up in Hammond for this season. We love the Chicago lakefront and plan on motoring over occasionally for an overnight stay. The new 31st marina will have a ramp and plenty of parking without having to drive up LSD to Burnham or leave the mast down for the trip under the bridge at Jackson. I do wish someone would put a nice 24/7 free ramp like Winthrop closer to Chicago.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

What is parking like at the ramps?



This is the problem in the Fl Keys. ramps are designed for skiff's but there are a few suitable for trailersailors, but parking for a truck and a trailer... that is the problem.

the only decent one I know of is seabird marina in long key bay side. the rest of the county parks require the truck to be removed before sundown... or they tow it.

key west has a few good ramps... but parking is pricey... like most of EYW.

 

[Scott B]

Wait, Did I get redirected to this Sailing Anarchy? LOL!

Macgregor talks always brings out the best and worst in people.

Ha! everyone deleted their posts!

No I deleted some posts as this thread was degenerating into some personal attacks etc. and I don't have time to sift through all the posts for all the good and bad. So please play nice

 

[Jackdaw]

Wait, Did I get redirected to this Sailing Anarchy? LOL!

For a point of reference, jack and/or scott, have you sailed on a macgregor? which model? (huge differences in models over time).

Mr Bill,

Sailing Anarchy indeed! ;^) And I agree with what you say here. To answer your question, Yes I have sailed on Macgregors. A 25, and older 26. And I've been on several 26 models of both major flavors. I've never owned one, but I have owned a Ericsson, a C&C, a Catalina, an S2, and 3 Beneteaus. So I've been around the block. I work in the Marine Electronics industry, and if you look back you'll see that the times I've posted here on Macs I've been neutral or positive about the boats themselves. Basically I'm in favor of anything that gets people sailing. What I NOT in favor if is the Macgregor company or private parties misstating the boats (or ANY boats) basic capabilities. That's just not safe. People new to the sport come here for advice. Every boat has limitations. I have friends that have sailed around the world and would laugh at me if I suggested that I wanted to try it in the 36.7. Its just not designed for that. Is the M26 a safe boat for Lake Michigan? I think it depends on what you mean by safe. Or maybe a better work would be 'prudent'. But that's true for any boat. My personal sense is that anytime a person has to ask that question about boat X on body of water Y, THEY are not ready, so the answer is NO.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

Fair enough.

That factory video is a big fat lie.

Looks to me like it was gale force a day before and they got out early before the flags when down. I didn't like that either.

-If I wanted to do a great loop, the powersailor would not be a bad choice IMHO. same for a lake or costal.

But from what I read the great lakes can be very unforgiving. still if you don't have sails up, and ballast full it will motor against pretty good seas.