Boom rigging

[John6275]

Well the weather here ended up being unfavorable again today. However,in have managed to get some pics of mast base, inside and out. tThe cabin top does not appear to have sagged.
Let me know what your thoughts are.
No one has commented on the rear main stay change or haylard change yet.
App still giving me trouble with posting pics so maybe I can get them up separately.

 

[John6275]

I cant seem to get this app to let me post pics. in the past , if I turned the phone on and off, it usually allowed it. not today.
any suggestions ?

 

[John6275]

For some reason the app is not working. Weather here still sucks but did get some pics of mast and related areas.

 

[John6275]

Not sure how much of rest of my recent stuff has posted. After dealing with this shroud issue, I am wondering about changing the back stay from cables to line as they appear in pics.
Also wondering about changing haylards complete to line and doing away with cables as well as attaching blocks at base if mast etc to run both haylards back to the cockpit.
Is either advisable or should I leave it as is?

 

[Woreign]

In the second photo above, the turnbuckle is at it's maximum length. I'm guessing this is for the forestay? What do the shroud turnbuckles look like? You could replace the piece of wood under the tabernacle on top of the cabin with a thicker piece (and slightly longer bolts). That would allow you to tighten the shrouds more.

 

[Joe Blizzard]

Also wondering about changing haylards complete to line and doing away with cables

I replaced my wire-and-rope halyards with dyneema several years ago. It's a little more slippery than the old fat lines but the loads on boats our size are generally light and I'm happy with it. I chose 5/16" because it was a reasonable fit in the original wire sheaves.

 

[John6275]

In the second photo above, the turnbuckle is at it's maximum length. I'm guessing this is for the forestay? What do the shroud turnbuckles look like? You could replace the piece of wood under the tabernacle on top of the cabin with a thicker piece (and slightly longer bolts). That would allow you to tighten the shrouds more.

No, actually the only one at max is the starboard lower shroud, which I find strange. You would think at least both sides would be similar.

 

[John6275]

How much thicker would be reasonable to make that piece of wood?

 

[John6275]

I replaced my wire-and-rope halyards with dyneema several years ago. It's a little more slippery than the old fat lines but the loads on boats our size are generally light and I'm happy with it. I chose 5/16" because it was a reasonable fit in the original wire sheaves.

Did you add blocks to the mast and run everything back to the cockpit and install cleats to secure it all there?

 

[Joe Blizzard]

Did you add blocks to the mast and run everything back to the cockpit and install cleats to secure it all there?

None of the above. With the kind of sailing I do and so small a journey from my cockpit to my mast base, I don't see the need.

 

[Woreign]

No, actually the only one at max is the starboard lower shroud, which I find strange. You would think at least both sides would be similar.

Maybe one side it simply adjusted too short and the other too long? The next time you have the mast up, try balancing the shrouds. You might find that there's nothing wrong with the rigging at all, and that there's no need to adjust the height of the mast. My DaySailer had the exact same turnbuckles that your boat has, and I found that they had the tendency to loosen on their own. I suspect they did this during the drive to and from the bay, or I had gremlins messing with them.

 

[Brian S]

With regards to leading halyards aft to the cockpit, it's always a choice. I think the most important thing is always to sail the boat as designed for a good while, to see what you really do and don't like, before you go changing stuff.

For people who aren't happy dancing around on deck, it can give a greater sense of security.

For others, it can be a big hassle.

I have a hank-on jib, with horn cleats on the mast. I rigged a downhaul line on the jib (I call it "poor man's roller furling") and I can uncleat the halyard standing in the companionway, and pull the downhaul and tame the jib on deck. However, the luff does loosen throughout the day, and uncleating the halyard to tighten the luff is a big PITA due to the horn cleat. My plan is to use a swiveling cam cleat, which will allow me to easily snug the line without having to uncleat and recleat on the horn cleat. I have one rigged for my spinnaker halyard, so that allows me to stand in the cockpit, pop the halyard, and quickly douse the chute. I think being able to grab the jib halyard and just snug it from time to time to remove luff scalloping using this swiveling cam cleat will work really well.

However, for the main halyard, I don't have these problems, as I have a sliding gooseneck and downhaul like. A Cunningham would be the equivalent. Also, I need to go to the mast to slack the halyard and reef, pulling tack down to reef hook, and turning to pull the leech line which is led forward along the boom. When it's time to douse the main, I am at the mast base, where I can easily pull the luff down as needed.

I've seen others with main halyard led to a clutch on the back edge of the house have to do a dance between the luff and the clutch, to pull the sail down, but then a hockle fouls the clutch, so back to sort that, then back up to the mast to pull the luff, lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[JRT]

Did you order a vang? I used this vang on my O'Day 25 and it helped a lot with sail control. There are smaller options to look at too, but I'd recommend a v jam cleat that is like this one as it is very nice to use and control the line.

Amazon.com : Schaefer Boom Vang 4:1 for Sailboats Up to 27-Feet : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Schaefer Boom Vang 4:1 for Sailboats Up to 27-Feet : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

 

[John6275]

Maybe one side it simply adjusted too short and the other too long? The next time you have the mast up, try balancing the shrouds. You might find that there's nothing wrong with the rigging at all, and that there's no need to adjust the height of the mast. My DaySailer had the exact same turnbuckles that your boat has, and I found that they had the tendency to loosen on their own. I suspect they did this during the drive to and from the bay, or I had gremlins messing with them.

Good idea and probably the reason only one side is off. On that note how is best way to sure the mast is centered to check and adjust these? Just eyeball it?

 

[John6275]

Did you order a vang? I used this vang on my O'Day 25 and it helped a lot with sail control. There are smaller options to look at too, but I'd recommend a v jam cleat that is like this one as it is very nice to use and control the line.

Amazon.com : Schaefer Boom Vang 4:1 for Sailboats Up to 27-Feet : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Schaefer Boom Vang 4:1 for Sailboats Up to 27-Feet : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

I actually have a small vang that was included but not used. I have purchased shackles and will be using it next time I sail.

 

[John6275]

With regards to leading halyards aft to the cockpit, it's always a choice. I think the most important thing is always to sail the boat as designed for a good while, to see what you really do and don't like, before you go changing stuff.

For people who aren't happy dancing around on deck, it can give a greater sense of security.

For others, it can be a big hassle.

I have a hank-on jib, with horn cleats on the mast. I rigged a downhaul line on the jib (I call it "poor man's roller furling") and I can uncleat the halyard standing in the companionway, and pull the downhaul and tame the jib on deck. However, the luff does loosen throughout the day, and uncleating the halyard to tighten the luff is a big PITA due to the horn cleat. My plan is to use a swiveling cam cleat, which will allow me to easily snug the line without having to uncleat and recleat on the horn cleat. I have one rigged for my spinnaker halyard, so that allows me to stand in the cockpit, pop the halyard, and quickly douse the chute. I think being able to grab the jib halyard and just snug it from time to time to remove luff scalloping using this swiveling cam cleat will work really well.

However, for the main halyard, I don't have these problems, as I have a sliding gooseneck and downhaul like. A Cunningham would be the equivalent. Also, I need to go to the mast to slack the halyard and reef, pulling tack down to reef hook, and turning to pull the leech line which is led forward along the boom. When it's time to douse the main, I am at the mast base, where I can easily pull the luff down as needed.

I've seen others with main halyard led to a clutch on the back edge of the house have to do a dance between the luff and the clutch, to pull the sail down, but then a hockle fouls the clutch, so back to sort that, then back up to the mast to pull the luff, lather, rinse, repeat.

I guess your right, I should leave it as is for now and just sail the boat. It is a bit unnerving, I'm 6 foot and 210 and there is no way to set the haylard without getting out on top, and there isn't much room. I might install a block just to give me a mechanical advantage when setting the haylard in its cleat or releasing it. That should make it doable from companion way. Maybe similar to what you are talking about but more simple for this beginner, lol.

 

[John6275]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the help. Great group of folks here.
31 days from our sail and learn and I am very excited. My wife says i am obsessed and she might be right.
Thanks again.

 

[DrJudyB]

So, while I'm waiting on better weather for pics, as far as the back stay goes, it appears in pics of boats supplied that it should be braided lines and mine is steel cable. Thoughts on changing that back? One block is defective due to cable getting stuck over time, so replacing it. They all appear to be set up for line rather than cable.
Also, thoughts on changing haylards from cable to braided lines and adding blocks at base of mast (some how/way) and cleats further aft to allow for single handling from cockpit? Is it a good idea? Better left as is?

The backstay configuration looks fine to me. Wire for the 2-legged yoke is normal. Rope for the yoke would be too stretchy. Most boats have all wire backstays except for the multipart tackle for adjusting.

If the block at the top of the yoke has an aluminum sheave, it’s all rigged exactly right.

I recongnize the block in the picture. It’s by Harken. Harken makes two “classic small boat Bullet” blocks that look exactly the same with the only difference being that one has a black plastic sheave for use with rope (Harken part # 166) and the other has a black aluminum sheave for use with wire (# 183).

29mm Bullet Block — Swivel

Low-friction Bullet blocks lead control lines aft. They are compact and lightweight, with fast trim and release under high or low loads. A range of styles lets these blocks adapt to almost all control line applications.

www.harken.com

32mm Stainless Steel T-track Endstop

Endstops absorb shock loads and prevent damage to the car.

www.harken.com

If you’re worried about which one you have, You can take a small tool to rap sharply on the sheave and listen. An aluminumwith have a different sound than plastic. But I really wouldn’t worry about it.....

Judy B

 

[DrJudyB]

WHOA!
Before you modify the mast step because the side shrouds are loose, check that the mast is centered and that the mast rake is not excessive! In other word, you need to tune the rig before you modify anything permanently.

If the combined length of the forestay components is too long, there will be too much mast rake, which will make the side shrouds loose. (Rake is the term for leaning the mast aft. Different designs of rigs require different amounts of rake)

What does the forestay and furler drum look like? What does the luff ( front edge) of the headsail look like?

. The easiest way to measure rake by getting the boat level on the trailer, using a bubble level on the cockpit seats. Then hang a weight from the halyard using the halyard. At the height of the boom, measure the distance between the back face of the mast and the halyard. Also measure along the mast from the gooseneck to the halyard at the top of the mast.

Tell us the measurements. With a little trig, we can figure out wether your mast has a reasonable or excessive amount of rake.

A rig like yours would have between 0.5 to 1.5 degrees of rake, and probably on the lower end of the range. For a rough approximation, 1 degree would be 1:60 ratio.

I would guess that a boat with a main Sail like your boat would measurements roughly 19-20’ between the boom and the halyard exit at the top of the mast, so I would guess that you the plumb line should hang about 4” aft of the mast for about 1 degree of rake.

If there is significantly more rake than normal, you might have a problem with the forestay.
.

Judy B
Retired sailmaker

 

[John6275]

The backstay configuration looks fine to me. Wire for the 2-legged yoke is normal. Rope for the yoke would be too stretchy. Most boats have all wire backstays except for the multipart tackle for adjusting.

If the block at the top of the yoke has an aluminum sheave, it’s all rigged exactly right.

I recongnize the block in the picture. It’s by Harken. Harken makes two “classic small boat Bullet” blocks that look exactly the same with the only difference being that one has a black plastic sheave for use with rope (Harken part # 166) and the other has a black aluminum sheave for use with wire (# 183).

29mm Bullet Block — Swivel

Low-friction Bullet blocks lead control lines aft. They are compact and lightweight, with fast trim and release under high or low loads. A range of styles lets these blocks adapt to almost all control line applications.

www.harken.com

32mm Stainless Steel T-track Endstop

Endstops absorb shock loads and prevent damage to the car.

www.harken.com

If you’re worried about which one you have, You can take a small tool to rap sharply on the sheave and listen. An aluminumwith have a different sound than plastic. But I really wouldn’t worry about it.....

Judy B

So the cable has actually eaten into the block damaging it. I think it was origionally designed for rope line rather than cable. SO thanks for the info. I know which part to order.