Its called 'halyard OFF'!
Burning the spin haly has this effect. Its also why it pays to buy your spin halyards extra long.
Boat sank in a race. Lessons learned
- Thread starter Jackdaw
- Start date
Its called 'halyard OFF'!
Burning the spin haly has this effect. Its also why it pays to buy your spin halyards extra long.
Did you see my post where I actually talked to the owner's wife and she told me what the people ON the boat said what happened? You can have your opinion and I will have the facts. Glad you are so wise as to share your insight without knowing the whole story. Must be awesome. Looking forward to more of your wise insight.
I'm actually interested in the fact that recovery went smoothly. Nice job. How it got there, not too interested, stuff happens. But I do have a question. If you release the halyard, doesn't the sail float down in front of the boat filling the sail with water? Watching the movie 'Wind" I have seen the same situation and the reason for all the angst in the movie. Why do that? Can't you just release the sheet? I don't race formally so I can't see the logic of dumping a sail in the water. Maybe its because I don't like paying to get them cleaned.
All U Get
All U Get
All you get:
By this time, the foot of the sail is already in the water. Easing sheets and guys does nothing. The head is holding the mast down. Easing the haly allows it to come up. The sail is already wet!
By this time, the foot of the sail is already in the water. Easing sheets and guys does nothing. The head is holding the mast down. Easing the haly allows it to come up. The sail is already wet!
I'm glad the crew didn't get snagged and pulled under by running rigging, which is multiplied on a race boat! Lines in the water can be an entanglement nightmare! Glad all are safe.
I was once told by a small-boat racer in a championship class of a local yacht club here in So. Cal. that the "game" of winning in such races is to push the boat to the limit of where it can go (= speed) w/o "wiping out." Essentially, the winning boats are often on the very verge of wiping out at any time and whether they do or not depends on crew skill and probably some luck. I recalled this once when reading from a book entitled: Embarcadero: True Tales of Sea Adventure 1849-1906 by Richard Dillon. I don't recall the chapter but probably the one on Clipper Ships where the best (and most famous) skippers/captains were those who made the fastest transits, naturally. How did they do this? All other things being equal by keeping up a lot of sail--essentially, always as much as the ship could bear w/o cracking a yard or springing a mast, etc. Ah!--- I thought to myself--the origin of modern sailboat racing!! The best skippers apparently knew what the boat (and crew) could take and put it, and them, always on the edge of it "to win." In comparison, whether or not a race boat is being sailed "safely" would therefore, IMHO, be a matter of the personal judgment of the skipper. So, it's not necessarily true that safety is willfully or purposely being "compromised" just b/c a yacht in a race is on or near the edge of its performance capability.
Last edited:
I know what you/he was trying to say, but it's more involved than that. In particular in larger (non-dinghy boats).
It's really about risk managment. That means balancing the current in-the-moment risk against BOTH more strategic race, regatta, and season goals, and the short term 'cost of being wrong'. The bigger the boat, the more important that process becomes.
We often have season, series and regatta goal that favor a more conservative approach vs an act of daring-do going wrong and taking a BIG number in a race. In particular when we are defending a good position and don't need a 'flyer'.
The biggest part of this job is to know hard you can push, and when to back off. Get good at that and the whole deal gets a LOT simpler.
Yeah - at the very least, run the halyard back to the cockpit so you can trip it in a hurry if you need to.
druid
^^^This.
Plus, I'd add (from the perspective of an ex-hardcore racer), the point at which one needs to back off is very situational, and highly dependent on crew skills and cohesion. I've raced on boats where doing an all-up gibe under spinnaker in 30+ knots of breeze while surfing down Pacific rollers was a "normal" maneuver, not even worth getting the off-watch up on deck for. I've also raced on boats where there is no way in hell I would have called for that maneuver, because the crew-work simply wasn't at a sufficient level to pull it off without putting the boat in the ditch. So... there's no substitute, IMHO, for not only knowing the limits of the boat and gear, but knowing what the crew can (and cannot) pull off under pressure. Things can go pear-shaped very quickly, and once they do it is very hard to get them back.
$.02
Yes-- I think that supports my remark under post #66: In comparison, whether or not a race boat is being sailed "safely" would therefore, IMHO, be a matter of the personal judgment of the skipper. So, it's not necessarily true that safety is willfully or purposely being "compromised" just b/c a yacht in a race is on or near the edge of its performance capability.
Something else to ask, and that is, just because everyone went for a swim, is that necessarily unsafe? In a moderate sized deep lake, the waves can be reasonably controlled, and not that dangerous for swimmers. The only real bad part was that the boat sank, which I contend should not be able to happen.
Anytime any boat goes over, there is risk to life. This can range from very small, like a 420 tipping (which happens ALL THE TIME) to a boat like Rambler 100 losing her keel, in which the fact that everyone was OK was a bit of a miracle, even though they were all professional and it happened in daylight. Trapped inside, tangled in rigging, straight up drowning, hypothermia, etc etc, All risks.
This is all part of sailing, and the risks involved in pushing the edge in a controlled manner. If this was not the case, I personally would find the sport a LOT less fun.
I just came across this thread from last year when I was doing some searching. It's pretty strange to discover a four-page thread of people talking about you.
This is my boat, and I was at the helm during that infamous wipe-out. Lots of good analysis in this thread, and most of it is consistent with discussions we had here. You're welcome to read the post-mortem here:
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wyc-communications/IncidentPostmortem-6302016.pdf
This is my boat, and I was at the helm during that infamous wipe-out. Lots of good analysis in this thread, and most of it is consistent with discussions we had here. You're welcome to read the post-mortem here:
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wyc-communications/IncidentPostmortem-6302016.pdf
By the way, this boat was dry and back in the slip within 36 hours. She never missed a race, and went on to win the championship trophy for her 5th year in a row.
@Odell Tuttle
I forgot.... Welcome to the SBO forum!
This is a great site. I've learned more here than anyplace else. You already know Clay. He is a huge contributor here as are a lot of other great people.
I forgot.... Welcome to the SBO forum!
This is a great site. I've learned more here than anyplace else. You already know Clay. He is a huge contributor here as are a lot of other great people.