Boat sank in a race. Lessons learned

FastOlson · Jul 3, 2016

rgranger said:
Is that common for C25's?

In racing you always try to have enough sail up to maintain speed thru the lulls, and then trim to survive the puffs. (pretty much the opposite of general recreational sailing!)

In our little venue, a large river, we have lost two boats thru this same set of conditions in that last few decades - one SJ-23 that was recovered later and a Sant 20 that was never found. No lives lost.
There were probably others, but those are the examples I recall.
Sure glad no one was killed.
Indeed, the pictures are truly haunting.

Loren

cb32863 · Jul 4, 2016

She has been raised and will be drying out now. First pic is a sonar image of her on the bottom.

Gunni · Jul 4, 2016

Pretty simple hoist. Seems like a lot of load to put in tension on the masthead. What does that boat displace?

Just looked it up 2,950 lbs, 900 lbs of lead. Plus resistance pulling it out of the bottom and dragging it up through the water column.

rgranger · Jul 4, 2016

Gunni

I assumed the crane was just to hold the mast upright so the boat didn't loll on its side... and that they used air bags to lift.... but I'm just assuming

BTW: CB... thanks for the pics. I've never seen anything like that before. Very cool.

Gunni · Jul 4, 2016

Well, I for one am happy to see you Minnetonka racers keeping the crane operators and dive service personnel fully employed! Glad it worked out.

Scott T-Bird · Jul 4, 2016

Did they find any snowmobiles while they were looking around down there?

Daveinet · Jul 4, 2016

Kind of makes you think boats with light keels that won't self right should have full flotation. I'm still waiting for a designer to integrate inflatable bags within the boat cushions. Auto inflate, just like an air bag in your car.

When one talks about race committees canceling races in questionable conditions, why not just make it a white sails race instead. That way one can still compete, but still be relatively safe. I have to think a Capri should be able to handle white sails in 25 mph winds.

uncledom · Jul 5, 2016

Scotty C-M said:
I often help out the local yacht club as a race committee worker. I've thought a lot about the responsibility of the RC to cancel races in windy conditions. Racing, by definition, goes to the limits of the boats performance. It raises an interesting dilemma about how far to push … both for the captain, crew and race committee.

A boats dcision to race or to continue racing is hers alone. RULE 4
Glad all are well.

pateco · Jul 5, 2016

cb32863 said:
She has been raised and will be drying out now. First pic is a sonar image of her on the bottom.

Great to see her back on the surface.

thinwater · Jul 5, 2016

uncledom said:
A boats dcision to race or to continue racing is hers alone. RULE 4
Glad all are well.

Yup. And to hoist the chute. A lot of folks like challenging conditions because of the higher premium on boat handling and seamanship. Rather like mountain climbing, you know your limitations and stay within them. I'd take a dinghy out in that for fun, but I'd be ready for rough treatment and keep her water tight.

So if this is known hazard, specifically in certain classes, why is there not a race rule that says "though shalt keep the boards in" over a certain wind speed, just as there is often a rule like that re. PFDs?

Daveinet · Jul 5, 2016

thinwater said:
Yup. And to hoist the chute. A lot of folks like challenging conditions because of the higher premium on boat handling and seamanship.

Seems the reason for handicaps is to level the playing field, and make racing more based on skill than the boat. So when the wind kicks up, it can put some boats at a significant advantage or disadvantage, which completely negates the handicap.

Scott T-Bird · Jul 5, 2016

Daveinet said:
Seems the reason for handicaps is to level the playing field, and make racing more based on skill than the boat. So when the wind kicks up, it can put some boats at a significant advantage or disadvantage, which completely negates the handicap.

How's that???

Gunni · Jul 5, 2016

In matched, or handicapped boats the only disadvantage will be crew and skill and whether they can manage the conditions. If you can't keep the stick up through the turn it don't matter how fast you made the leeward mark! I'm sure there were a few
Capri25's who properly executed.

Scott T-Bird · Jul 5, 2016

Exactly, that's why I am questioning Daveinet's statement. How would the skill required to handle challenging conditions negate the purpose of handicapping boats to level the playing field? The purpose is to level the boats, not the sailors.

cb32863 · Jul 5, 2016

The Capri 25's are one of the one design fleets at WYC, no handicap for them. One even snapped a mast that evening.... for the second time this year.

It was a freak occurrence on an odd evening on the lake. Of the 117 boats that were on the lake that day, 7 or so abandoned due to the flukey conditions. Fleet captain of the PHRF - II fleet had his Catalina 22's rudder snap and the Merit 25 in the same fleet snapped a shroud. A few other mishaps as well. Like I said, odd evening on the lake for sure.

We have one of the best PRO's in the country and there are times when he does raise the "Life Jacket Flag", races are also abandoned when the breeze is 18+ sustained, I think that's the cutoff. We have had 2 races abandoned because of that this year. There is the "Heavy Air Cup" for those that wish to participate. Though, there are those times when you hear "2 gusting to 4" on the radio too....

I was at the club today and the boat is now in it's slip looking like nothing happened. Though, I am thinking the electronics are probably shot.

marke14 · Jul 5, 2016

Thanks for sharing the story, lessons learned, and especially the pictures of the recovery effort. Talk about full-circle! That sonar image is gnarly ... that lake bottom is very flat and featureless at least in that area!

I think I will keep my boards in and hatch closed up when I solo offshore, if it's blowing at all and/or if there is weird swell.

markwbird · Jul 5, 2016

The two biggest lessons that stand out for me are: 1) wear a life jacket. 2) Don't ask your crew to do things they are not ready for. I do not know the experience level of this crew but I have sailed many a race in which newbies were asked to handle conditions that were beyond their experience level. When flying a spin in heavy air things can get out of hand quickly. If your crew does not know what to do under such circumstances, it will be too late to teach them.

Roland5048 · Jul 5, 2016

marke14 said:
I think I will keep my boards in and hatch closed up when I solo offshore, if it's blowing at all and/or if there is weird swell.

I hear that! Several years ago I cruising back, solo, from South Florida about 10 miles off shore in about 10 knots on the beam and clear skies. Only had a main and working jib at the time. Black line formed on the horizon. Went below to close things up and get the hatch boards. As I came back up into the cockpit I was hit with about 60 knot winds. Still clear and sunny out. Knocked me over far enough that green water started pouring over the coaming into the cockpit. I'm now turned around battling about what seemed to be six foot seas. After regaining control had a great downhill run to my destination. Never rained and skies stayed clear. A few days later, I was talking to an airline pilot about what happened. It seemed that there was a thunderstorm about forty miles ahead and another one about forty miles behind. What he said probably happened is that I got caught in the winds converging out of these storms. Anyway, lesson learned. Hatches are closed, life jacket is on and the boards are at the ready when soloing.

Boat sank in a race. Lessons learned

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