Best sailing autopilot?

[capta]

Perhaps the best autopilot is a well trained crew?

What if I owned this?

The whole point of an autopilot is to have a crew member aboard who works non-stop and does a great job, without complaining or consuming vital vittles. I've yet to have an autopilot show up for watch late, drunk, seasick or tired. I'm a firm believer that one autopilot is worth 2 experienced crew.
In the case of the OP's post, I believe a vane gear would be the solution to his problems, not an autopilot, if he wants it to hold course to the wind angle.

 

[jviss]

So, I don't know how much further this thread will go, but I hope the OP got some insight into what this is all about. It has been enormously enjoyable and enlightening to me; it gives me something to obsess about, and get me out of my recent funk! I am studying the Simrad/B&G manuals and the articles by John Harries, and trying to put together a plan for programming mine. I have the Simrad AC42 with two AP24 control heads and two Zeus2 MFDs, a Raymarine linear actuator (and a spare!), RF25N rudder feedback unit, RC42 compass, and my Raymarine sailing instruments are networked into the NMEA2000 network and work with the B&G stuff. So, I think I have some work to do to make this thing work great! It works OK now, but could use some improvement in a few areas. Thanks.

 

[jviss]

By the way, the documentation for these things is poor, confusing, and incomplete! They don't break down the system and say what's happening where. Some display or control head manuals don't even say what computer they are programming! Terminology is inconsistent not only across the industry but even within the same brand. I'm going to try to put together my own documentation based on the collection of manuals from Simrad/B&G.

I believe at one point Simrad acquired Robertson, who had a good reputation for autopilots. I'm sure their technology is still represented in the Simrad/B&G stuff.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

The whole point of an autopilot is to have a crew member aboard who works non-stop and does a great job, without complaining or consuming vital vittles. I've yet to have an autopilot show up for watch, drunk, seasick or tired. I'm a firm believer that one autopilot is worth 2 experienced crew.

You sir have far, far more experience than myself

 

[colemj]

I think you're mistaken, I downloaded it, and there's just about nothing in there about setting up the autopilot. On the other hand, the Zeus2 MFD manual has a lot of info.

I don't think the "smarts" are in the control heads or MFDs, I suspect the capabilities are in the autopilot computer, and the MFDs or control heads (like the AP24) just access the parameters.

That's odd. My AP44 manual has this information for the AC42.

 

[colemj]

By the way, the documentation for these things is poor, confusing, and incomplete! They don't break down the system and say what's happening where. Some display or control head manuals don't even say what computer they are programming! Terminology is inconsistent not only across the industry but even within the same brand. I'm going to try to put together my own documentation based on the collection of manuals from Simrad/B&G.

I believe at one point Simrad acquired Robertson, who had a good reputation for autopilots. I'm sure their technology is still represented in the Simrad/B&G stuff.

I agree that B&G documentation is atrocious, but it isn't much better across the other manufacturers. Somewhere buried deep in the B&G website are some videos or technical papers about setting up B&G AP's. I think it is for the H5000 system, but almost all of the information translates directly to all of their pilots.

While many have the good impression of the Robertson heritage, I doubt much if any of it remains in the current products simply due to technological age (it's been 30yrs). B&G were similarly well-thought when they were a separate company, and it is more likely these products represent an evolution of their technology.

Mark

 

[jviss]

That's odd. My AP44 manual has this information for the AC42.

View attachment 215116

That is indeed odd! The one I downloaded is also called "AP 44 Operator Manual, but doesn't even have the same page 39 as yours! Can you please post a link? Thanks.

 

[colemj]

I believe a vane gear would be the solution to his problems, not an autopilot, if he wants it to hold course to the wind angle.

Not sure why you say that - autopilots are great at sailing to wind angle. Even deep downwind in light air.

Mark

 

[colemj]

That is indeed odd! The one I downloaded is also called "AP 44 Operator Manual, but doesn't even have the same page 39 as yours! Can you please post a link? Thanks.

Just the one on Navico's website: https://softwaredownloads.navico.co...oads/documents/AP44_OM_EN_988-11189-003_w.pdf

I see now that my copy must be an older one because the current one has that information on page 41 instead of 39.

Marki

 

[jviss]

Just the one on Navico's website: https://softwaredownloads.navico.com/Simrad/SimradYachting_Software - Copy/Downloads/documents/AP44_OM_EN_988-11189-003_w.pdf

I see now that my copy must be an older one because the current one has that information on page 41 instead of 39.

Marki

Thank you! One thing that infuriates me, as an engineer, is that they are inconsistent and imprecise identifying the version of the manual and the version of the software. The only real version info of the pdf I can find is in the file name. And, it appears that the one I had, with nary a mention but one of the AC42 autopilot computer, is a later version! Mine is:

AP44_OM_EN_988-11189-004_w.pdf

The one you supplied is:

AP44_OM_EN_988-11189-003_w.pdf

Maybe we should seek out and archive the various versions of these books!

I've found and saved 002, 003, and 004 so far.

 

[colemj]

The Nac3 commissioning manual also explains a lot of these functions. The actual names may be different for the AC42, and some of the menu items might not be available. https://manuals.bandg.com/NAC2-NAC3/owners-manual/NAC-2_NAC-3_CM_EN_988-11233-001.pdf

 

[colemj]

Yes, it looks like they removed information from their current manual. I have v1.0 of it from when we installed the system.

Mark

 

[jviss]

Yes, it looks like they removed information from their current manual. I have v1.0 of it from when we installed the system.

Mark

Ooh, you mean earlier than the 002 version? If so, can you post it, or maybe email it to me?

 

[Phil]

The whole point of an autopilot is to have a crew member aboard who works non-stop and does a great job, without complaining or consuming vital vittles. I've yet to have an autopilot show up for watch late, drunk, seasick or tired. I'm a firm believer that one autopilot is worth 2 experienced crew.
In the case of the OP's post, I believe a vane gear would be the solution to his problems, not an autopilot, if he wants it to hold course to the wind angle.

Yep...I would nominate my Monitor Windvane as the best autopilot. Trim your sails properly, set up the windvane relative to the wind direction, connect the control lines to your tiller or wheel properly, then kick back and relax. Dobby did more than 95% of the helm duty between San Francisco and Oahu. He never complained about any of the conditions.

 

[capta]

Not sure why you say that - autopilots are great at sailing to wind angle. Even deep downwind in light air.

Mark

I like having a mechanical steering system that requires no power from the boat. I use my autopilot when powering, but a vane gear for sailing. On Skipping Stone, the autopilot drove the quadrant directly, which was great if the steering cable broke, but she was too heavy for any off the rack vane gear. She did not have a wind sensor for the autopilot, but the unit had the ability to run it that way.

 

[Screen Saver]

I cant say I know whose got the best AP, but the newer Raymarine EV series I have significantly improved on their earlier versions.
Sailing to wind Vane settings to get the best out of it one needs to spend some time setting everything up. If the sails are poorly balanced, then almost any AP will struggle as the wind gust comes and it starts to round up etc. The new Raymarine AP is as intuitive as it can be using a gyro, For example as soon as the boat starts to heal a bit more from increased wind or from skew of say stern quarter swell the AP will apply a bit more weather helm early on before and in anticipation of a course movement. This results in better course holding when sailing, but to be honest if your motoring only in a swell the AP is expecting you start to round up with the roll., so you need to adjust accordingly.

Sailing using wind vanes settings you need to experiment with the dampening of your wind angle source and how quick that responds, along with sail balancing. AP will not pinch the wind as we can, and many do, so it must have sufficient angle to allow at least 5 degrees course change pending the conditions. Other than that it can do a great job.. The new ones will auto tune to some extent, so it will learn & try to adjust for any oversteering.

Its ETA is very good so long as you are using VMG and if mutli leg or routed course it can update ETA based on the route or next WP. Of course if VMG changes well so to will your ETA. Or you can feed it an expected/planned VMG and it will give you an ETA

I haven’t been game enough to try wind vane setting downwind goose winged.. I do this sailing to course no problem. I’m also not convinced yet anti-jibe works properly, Im waiting for very light conditions where I can manage an accidental jibe

Lastly the new EV series is slower to respond to the button course changes of 5 degrees or less, which is disappointing.

Mine is also servo driven, not via the wheel, and has rudder feedback, never had overload.

 

[jviss]

I cant say I know whose got the best AP, but the newer Raymarine EV series I have significantly improved on their earlier versions.
Sailing to wind Vane settings to get the best out of it one needs to spend some time setting everything up. If the sails are poorly balanced, then almost any AP will struggle as the wind gust comes and it starts to round up etc. The new Raymarine AP is as intuitive as it can be using a gyro, For example as soon as the boat starts to heal a bit more from increased wind or from skew of say stern quarter swell the AP will apply a bit more weather helm early on before and in anticipation of a course movement. This results in better course holding when sailing, but to be honest if your motoring only in a swell the AP is expecting you start to round up with the roll., so you need to adjust accordingly.

Sailing using wind vanes settings you need to experiment with the dampening of your wind angle source and how quick that responds, along with sail balancing. AP will not pinch the wind as we can, and many do, so it must have sufficient angle to allow at least 5 degrees course change pending the conditions. Other than that it can do a great job.. The new ones will auto tune to some extent, so it will learn & try to adjust for any oversteering.

Its ETA is very good so long as you are using VMG and if mutli leg or routed course it can update ETA based on the route or next WP. Of course if VMG changes well so to will your ETA. Or you can feed it an expected/planned VMG and it will give you an ETA

I haven’t been game enough to try wind vane setting downwind goose winged.. I do this sailing to course no problem. I’m also not convinced yet anti-jibe works properly, Im waiting for very light conditions where I can manage an accidental jibe

Lastly the new EV series is slower to respond to the button course changes of 5 degrees or less, which is disappointing.

Mine is also servo driven, not via the wheel, and has rudder feedback, never had overload.

Nice write-up, thanks.

 

[Benny Mike]

The best self steering system is a Hydrovane. Sails well to wind direction and doesn't use any power. Also gives you a backup rudder in the event your helm stops working.

Now, for traditional power hungry AP, I have had both Raymarine and Simrade (B&G) and I much pefer B&G.

 

[jviss]

The best self steering system

There's no "best" autopilot or steering system, there's only the one that matches one's requirements the best. For example, I don't want some big, ugly contraption bolted to the back of my boat! Sure, if I was making a long, offshore passage I would probably prefer a vane. Depends on what one's doing, what the "use case" is.

 

[Screen Saver]

I think the days of the conventional wind vane only, are nearly over, but for a few boats running very low on power and doing lots of miles. I know more and more boats especially those with wheels in the center of the cockpits, whom have removed the wheel and it sits near by, but out of the way, many others who never use the wheel. In my own case i probably manually steer on average 10 to 20%. I used to enjoy actually steering, holding a course anticipating the next puff, creeping upwind to get around that point. Now days I more enjoy setting the autopilot, and making small sail trim adjustments and adding or subtracting 1 or 2 degrees to the autopilot, often resulting in another 0.5 to 1knot and sundowners starting earlier. As soon as the anchor is up auto Pilot is on, if fact sometimes even before hand and a wind vain wont help with Set, wind variations, or if you want to creep upwind. Tacking in lay lines, or just ducking downstairs for a pee I wouldn't be without, nor would I have vain.