Best sailing autopilot?

[Radio Flyer]

I've had sailboats with both Raymarine and Garmin chart plotters. Despite networking the instruments, I find their ability to hold a wind position weak at best.

I wonder about the experience of other sailors with Simrad, B&G, or other brands.

Which is most successful holding to the wind? As an aside, how well do the systems estimate arrival time. Theoretically there is a fair bit of math behind speed, distance to travel, tacking angle, and arrival time. The Raymarine was pretty fair at determining the arrival time at angle of attack. That value informed me on how much headway to give.

Just looking for experienced opinions.

 

[jviss]

I think B&G is the best sailing AP, 'though I confess I've had issues with sailing to the wind.

I think it's that I haven't dug into it and programmed it correctly.

But B&G is one division of Navico, which owns Simrad and Lowrance as well. SImrad seems to address the powerboat market, Lowrance the fishing market, and B&G the sailing market. My B&G Zeus2 MFD system has lots of cool sailing features, including racing features.

 

[Brian D]

That's like asking what the best sailboat is. LOL

I have used Simrad and it has work fine for me. It interface on NMEA (yeah, old, I know, but works) and as long as I have a route programed on my (old) Garmin GPS12, I get to where I want to go.

 

[rgranger]

That's like asking what the best sailboat is. LOL

That's easy... its the one you own.

 

[kappykaplan]

That's easy... its the one you own.

 

[BarryL]

Hey,

The best autopilots by far are below deck units. These are the only pilots suitable for bigger boats (over 10K displacement). They work very well, but are also very expensive. For smaller boats, the only really affordable AP are wheel pilots, and the Raymarine is the most popular.

I had a Raymarine EVO 100 wheel pilot on my last boat, a C&C 110. The pilot was undersized but worked great while motoring and OK upwind or reaching in moderate conditions. it worked poorly downwind ( too slow to make the large rudder corrections).

My current boat came with a Raymarine hydraulic below deck pilot. I have B&G instruments (wind, depth, speed) and the H5000 computer. My boat does a pretty good job of steering to a wind angle. It also does a decent job of driving downwind. I do need to be careful to have the sails balanced. If not, the AP will give an 'overcurrent error' and shut off on me.

Barry

 

[kappykaplan]

The best autopilots by far are below deck units.

I agree. I switched from a wheel pilot to a type 1 linear drive and have absolutely no regrets.

 

[dlochner]

With each new generation of AP computers, course holding becomes better. It also depends on the data being provided to the AP computer. The current crop of B&G AP computers rely heavily on the a very precise compas, the Precision 9. In addition to point towards north it provide heel, rotation rate, yaw, pitch and who knows what other data. This all allows for the more precise calculations and direction to be fed to the drive unit.

Below decks APs are generally faster and more responsive than Wheel APs and have more advanced computers driving them.

But B&G is one division of Navico, which owns Simrad and Lowrance as well. SImrad seems to address the powerboat market, Lowrance the fishing market, and B&G the sailing market. My B&G Zeus2 MFD system has lots of cool sailing features, including racing features.

Not anymore. B&G is now part of the Novice Group that includes Simrad, Lawrence, Mastervolt, Marinco, Blue Seas, C-Map and a bunch more companies all owned by the Brunswick the proud sponsor of the American Bowling Association tournament.

B&G has the most experience with displaying sailing data on an MFD. Historically, B&G has been the leader when it comes to sailing instrumentation. Raymarine and Garmin are late comers to the game. There is a reason B&G dominates in the big boat professional sailing market.

Ok, so Brunswick also owns AMF which built Sunfishes and they do have other boating related brands. I just remember the bowling tournaments from the 60s and Brunswick being the sponsor.

 

[jviss]

If not, the AP will give an 'overcurrent error' and shut off on me.

That's interesting. That says to me your actuator isn't strong enough, stalls, and that's what causes the overcurrent. What kind of actuator have you?

 

[jviss]

Not anymore. B&G is now part of the Novice Group that includes Simrad, Lawrence, Mastervolt, Marinco, Blue Seas, C-Map and a bunch more companies all owned by the Brunswick the proud sponsor of the American Bowling Association tournament.

I believe you mistyped saying "Novice Group," you probably meant Navico, which would be correct, and is what I said! I said "B&G is one division of Navico, which owns Simrad and Lowrance as well," which is essentially what you are saying. Brunswick acquired Navico in 2021, but they haven't changed the structure of Navico that I know of.

 

[dlochner]

I believe you mistyped saying "Novice Group,"

I spelled Navico, correctly, auto correct had a different idea.

but they haven't changed the structure of Navico that I know of.

Brunswick Corporation Establishes Navico Group – the marine industry’s leading supplier of integrated systems and products

Corporate communications, press releases and news from Brunswick and its family of 60+ marine recreation and technology brands, plus presentations and events.

www.brunswick.com

 

[Radio Flyer]

I think B&G is the best sailing AP, 'though I confess I've had issues with sailing to the wind.

I think it's that I haven't dug into it and programmed it correctly.

But B&G is one division of Navico, which owns Simrad and Lowrance as well. SImrad seems to address the powerboat market, Lowrance the fishing market, and B&G the sailing market. My B&G Zeus2 MFD system has lots of cool sailing features, including racing features.

I feel the marketing side B&G seems to be indicating that they understand the needs.
However I've had a belly full of hunting on a beat. Possibly the rudder position indicator ( feedback ) would help this. I never put one on either boat I've owned. Maybe that's what is missing.
I figure I'll do it right when I get a new nav station. I'm just looking to hear an opinion because the salespeople, even at the Miami boat show, just sell the shiny display. No idea if they offer better.

 

[jviss]

I spelled Navico, correctly, auto correct had a different idea.

Brunswick Corporation Establishes Navico Group – the marine industry’s leading supplier of integrated systems and products

Corporate communications, press releases and news from Brunswick and its family of 60+ marine recreation and technology brands, plus presentations and events.

www.brunswick.com

Yes, but the Simrad, Lowrance, and B&G relationship persist.

 

[Radio Flyer]

With each new generation of AP computers, course holding becomes better. It also depends on the data being provided to the AP computer. The current crop of B&G AP computers rely heavily on the a very precise compas, the Precision 9. In addition to point towards north it provide heel, rotation rate, yaw, pitch and who knows what other data. This all allows for the more precise calculations and direction to be fed to the drive unit.

Below decks APs are generally faster and more responsive than Wheel APs and have more advanced computers driving them.



Not anymore. B&G is now part of the Novice Group that includes Simrad, Lawrence, Mastervolt, Marinco, Blue Seas, C-Map and a bunch more companies all owned by the Brunswick the proud sponsor of the American Bowling Association tournament.

B&G has the most experience with displaying sailing data on an MFD. Historically, B&G has been the leader when it comes to sailing instrumentation. Raymarine and Garmin are late comers to the game. There is a reason B&G dominates in the big boat professional sailing market.

Ok, so Brunswick also owns AMF which built Sunfishes and they do have other boating related brands. I just remember the bowling tournaments from the 60s and Brunswick being the sponsor.

The parent companies worry me a bit. I understand economies of scale, but sometime the clueless at the top don't help products. An example would be Harley Davidson- the AMF years.
Still the B&G recommendation seems the most solid. It would be nice in a rougher sea to entrust the AP for part time help. Then I can coach the green colored sailors a bit more.

 

[dlochner]

The parent companies worry me a bit. I understand economies of scale, but sometime the clueless at the top don't help products. An example would be Harley Davidson- the AMF years.
Still the B&G recommendation seems the most solid. It would be nice in a rougher sea to entrust the AP for part time help. Then I can coach the green colored sailors a bit more.

I spoke with a regional manager for B&G last fall about the acquisition. He felt it was a good move as the prior owner was a capital management fund. He felt the brand would be able to do more innovation and product development. Sort of back to the old days of the brand.

The new Navico group has a number of reputable brands under its umbrella.

 

[Radio Flyer]

I spoke with a regional manager for B&G last fall about the acquisition. He felt it was a good move as the prior owner was a capital management fund. He felt the brand would be able to do more innovation and product development. Sort of back to the old days of the brand.

The new Navico group has a number of reputable brands under its umbrella.

Nice to know the regional is positive . I hit the Miami boat show in 2019 and quizzed all of the trade show sales people. No in depth knowledge or comparative info. That was for any brand. All they understood were product features. I tend to get better info reading manuals on line.
Or best yet, getting your feedback. Thanks.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Perhaps the best autopilot is a well trained crew?

That's easy... its the one you own.

What if I owned this?

 

[dlochner]

Perhaps the best autopilot is a well trained crew?

What if I owned this?
View attachment 214995

You'll need neither a crew nor an autopilot for a long time. You might however ask about the scrap value of lead, aluminum, and stainless steel.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I had very good results sailing to wind vane angles using Raymarine EV200 course computer with Raymarine below decks Type 2 rotary drive. I’m in the process of installing a Type 2 short linear drive, and expect similar results.
I think the key is to select “performance sailboat” in your AP settings. It improves response time (and uses more average power).

 

[Radio Flyer]

I had very good results sailing to wind vane angles using Raymarine EV200 course computer with Raymarine below decks Type 2 rotary drive. I’m in the process of installing a Type 2 short linear drive, and expect similar results.
I think the key is to select “performance sailboat” in your AP settings. It greatly improves response time (and uses more average power).

Did you have Rudder position feedback?
You can make it faster response. The first raymarine I had updated every 2 sec (Nmea modbus network). The last was the ethernet version (2000) and that updated close to 20 times a second. That also hunted.
I think it doesn't matter how fast it responds. The system needs feedback to dampen the system
A PID control loop. We can't dampen the response without a differential control.
Sorry I come from electronic industrial control sales. The generic terms (proportional, integral, & derivative) PID is how we control unruly processes like mixing epoxy. It needs to be warmed to start the reaction but the reaction exotherms so you need to cool the batch so it doesn't cure improperly.

A sailboat does the same thing as the epoxy process. At best point of sail into a beat - The bow draws a circle around your target layline vector.

I can't get AP to get as small a circle as I can by hand.

That's why I wonder about rudder feedback (dampening indicator) and how a manufacturer can approximate a mathematical derivative in a digital format. There are few manufacturers in industrial control that do it well.
Who's the best in AP?