Benefits of an inverter

[Maine Sail]

Tomorrow a 150 watt pure sine wave inverter will arrive that should meet my needs. It has a 12v plug and can be hard wired, which it will be.

By all means do hardwire it. The ones with a 12V socket are flat out dangerous..

Even a 150W version can pull close to 15A, which is simply too much for a 12V socket..

I could smell this one melting when I walked onto this customers boat. It was pretty close to starting a fire...

 

[dlochner]

Only thing with a smaller inverter, the fan will run to cool it increasing 12 volt consumption.
I very rarely hear the fan run on the 400 watt unit fwiw.

That's true, however, power consumption on those little fans is trivial and it will not be running 24/7, just a couple of hours here and there to recharge something. The charger for the tool batteries only draws about .6 amps, so that is only ~50% of the inverters output. The biggest consistent draw would be the laptop which an 85 watt draw. We end up motoring a lot on Lake Ontario, so charging while motoring would be an option. Finally, we have a 460 ah battery bank, so there is plenty of reserve power.

The biggest draw will be the ice maker, for cold drinks at anchor I'll go with a little extra power loss.

 

[dlochner]

By all means do hardwire it. The ones with a 12V socket are flat out dangerous..

Even a 150W version can pull close to 15A, which is simply too much for a 12V socket..

I could smell this one melting when I walked onto this customers boat. It was pretty close to starting a fire...

The one I bought is a Go Power 150 W Pure Sine wave converter. A little more substantial than the RS POS.

 

[TomY]

I've had a 200 watt plug in for 20 years with no problems. In fact, I think a friend gave it to me because he bought a bigger one. I can't think of the brand but it has a wired plug.

 

[Gunni]

I didn’t realize we had a shortage of bagged ice in this country!

 

[Maine Sail]

I had similar thoughts, so a quick web search revealed several inverters rated at 12,000 watts peak and much lower sustained. Here's one on Amazon. https://amzn.to/2RDxd77

I'm not sure I'd put one on my boat.

If a customer comes to us with a non Marine UL inverter or inverter charger we simply decline the work.

A product like that is not a Marine UL product and really should not be installed on a boat. Unsafe inverter & inverter / charger installations are one of the #1 danger areas we see on boats. Especially when folks try to feed the existing on board AC system / 120V outlets and don't leave it as a simple "stand alone" inverter.

Also that is a 3000W inverter not 12,000W (unless we want to play car stereo wattage games). Any legitimate peak rating would be at least a 5 second peak. For most companies building units actually tested to Marine UL standards this is usually a 5 second duration at about double the continuous or 6000W for 3000W rated inverter for a max of 5 seconds. Can it do 12,000W? Perhaps, for fractions of a second, but this is in no way a real rating nor is it a 12,000W inverter. Inverter ratings are based on the max continuous output.

Still a 3000W inverter like that would need a minimum of 4/0 wire, a 350A class T fuse, an battery bank isolator switch also rated for that duty. The maximum round trip circuit length with 4/0 wire would be 5' or 2.5' max length for positive & negative. It also means the rest of the battery wiring needs to be up to the same level as the inverters wiring demands.

It would also need a massive battery bank in order to be correctly installed on a boat. Even with the safest possible installation, it is still not considered safe unless it has been tested to Marine UL standards and it can still be flagged as "unsafe" in an insurance survey. If wired as a stand alone, meaning the AC output is not physically connected to the vessels existing AC system, it may get a pass but any good surveyor would flag one in an instant if wired into the vessels AC system.

 

[Maine Sail]

I've had a 200 watt plug in for 20 years with no problems. In fact, I think a friend gave it to me because he bought a bigger one. I can't think of the brand but it has a wired plug.

I would not personally plug in any inverter with a cigarette lighter style plug on my own boat. Seen one too many dangerous situations I suppose...

The one above is not the only one we have seen melt down... Cut the tip and hard wire or get some Anderson Power pole plugs or similar. The 12V outlets are just not made for that kind of load, especially when corrosion sets in. At 200W you can be pulling as much as 19A through a cigarette style plug.

My guess is you are just lightly loading it but the risk still exists and the risk of a fire is certainly real. If you want to continue using it that way please fuse the outlet at about 7.5A or less, ideally I prefer to see them fused at no more than 5A.

 

[dlochner]

I didn’t realize we had a shortage of bagged ice in this country!

We don't have a freezer only a refrigerator. After a few days on an anchor the ice is melted.

 

[uncledom]

I didn’t realize we had a shortage of bagged ice in this country!

saves a dingy trip if you run out of ice Gunni

 

[Bob J.]

Question?
What if one was to hardwire a remote dedicated GFCI recepticle directly to an inverter. Other than the inverter case ground it wouldn't be connected to the boats AC system. Would that be an acceptable practice? Reason I ask thinking of putting a small 700 watt microwave on board & don't want to run a generator for 10 minutes just to use it.

 

[dlochner]

Question?
What if one was to hardwire a remote dedicated GFCI recepticle directly to an inverter. Other than the inverter case ground it wouldn't be connected to the boats AC system. Would that be an acceptable practice? Reason I ask thinking of putting a small 700 watt microwave on board & don't want to run a generator for 10 minutes just to use it.

If it was a marine certified inverter, properly installed with a remote switch and adequate AC and DC circuit protection, then it would probably be OK. All the installation instructions I read for 300+ watt inverters wanted a very short cable run with a big cable to limit line loss.

The AC ground might be an issue. The manuals I looked at had the AC Ground and the Neutral grounded to the chassis. Some wanted to ground the chassis to the boats ground (engine block) others didn't mention it.

Another question would be how to connect the new outlet to the inverter. Can the inverter be hardwired to the dedicated outlet or is it limited to a regular 3 prong plug. In this instance I think hard wiring the AC outlet would be preferable.

 

[sailme88]

Curly, woob, woob, woob..... it draws 3.5 amps that is just over 400 watts

 

[Chris & Lenore]

Maine Sail - what brands of inverter would you consider “ marine”? I often see Victron and Samlex for pure sinewave lower wattage units (under 500 watts).

 

[Gunni]

If I had known how coveted that 3000W brick of an inverter was when I had it pulled, I wouldn't have dropped it in the freecycle bin at the boatyard! BTW it was hardwired to the port-side AC outlets, had an easy to access idle/on pressure switch, a dedicated Beneteau disconnect toggle, and always scared the beejesus out of me to think an outlet might be live with 120 VAC inside a wet boat full of wet crew, on a wet sole. Damn thing drew something like 5 amps just sitting there in idle waiting for a load.

 

[Bob J.]

Another question would be how to connect the new outlet to the inverter. Can the inverter be hardwired to the dedicated outlet

The inverter would need to have the option to be hardwired. May be easier to just install a manual transfer switch between the AC panel & shore power input IF I decide to go down this road....

 

[StargazerP303]

12,000W at 12V...?

12,000W/12V = 1000A X 1.15 for inverter inefficiency = 1150A load

They don't make wire large enough, without doubling it or tripling it, to even handle a 12,000W inverter. The maximum allowable ampacity on a 4/0 wire is 445A.. 4/0 wire is close to garden hose size.

Are you sure you don't have a 1200W inverter?

Here's one Main Sail. Next time I go to the boat I will double check wire size installed and watts of the unit. However, I was personally worried about the momentary START-UP watts for appliances which have always been a problem for me. Below is a unit 32,000 Watt Peak.
*Split Phase function:
AC output as belows:
Two white AC output sockets, output is all 110V,
One hard wire terminal marked L1,N, L2,
L1 + N = AC 110V ；
L2 + N = AC 110V ；
L1 + L2 = AC 220V ；
NOTE: can not L1 + N+ L2 .
For AC 220v, 100% full power For AC 110v, 50% half power.
WITH 120A BTY CHARGER function for AC 220v 60Hz home grid.
NOTE: AS THIS IS SPLIT TYPE, LCD only show 220v voltage , watt, amp, did not show 110v spec. *Specification :
DC Input Voltage: 12V
AC Output Voltage: 110V & 220V
Regulation: ±5%
Frequency: 60HZ±3%
Efficiency: 90%
Output Wave Form: Pure Sine Wave
Temperature Protection: 70C
Input Low Voltage Alarm: 10.5-11V
Input Low Voltage shutdown: 10V
Input High Voltage Alarm: 15V
Input High Voltage shutdown: >15V
No load current draw when power save on: 0.8-0.9A
No load current draw when power save off: 4.0-4.5A
Certificate: CE
ATS 12V 32000W Peak 8000W LF Split Phase Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter DC 12V to AC 110V&220V 60Hz, with 120A BC/UPS / LCD Display.
They supply wires for connection to batteries.

 

[dlochner]

Here's one Main Sail. Next time I go to the boat I will double check wire size installed and watts of the unit. However, I was personally worried about the momentary START-UP watts for appliances which have always been a problem for me. Below is a unit 32,000 Watt Peak.
*Split Phase function:
AC output as belows:
Two white AC output sockets, output is all 110V,
One hard wire terminal marked L1,N, L2,
L1 + N = AC 110V ；
L2 + N = AC 110V ；
L1 + L2 = AC 220V ；
NOTE: can not L1 + N+ L2 .
For AC 220v, 100% full power For AC 110v, 50% half power.
WITH 120A BTY CHARGER function for AC 220v 60Hz home grid.
NOTE: AS THIS IS SPLIT TYPE, LCD only show 220v voltage , watt, amp, did not show 110v spec. *Specification :
DC Input Voltage: 12V
AC Output Voltage: 110V & 220V
Regulation: ±5%
Frequency: 60HZ±3%
Efficiency: 90%
Output Wave Form: Pure Sine Wave
Temperature Protection: 70C
Input Low Voltage Alarm: 10.5-11V
Input Low Voltage shutdown: 10V
Input High Voltage Alarm: 15V
Input High Voltage shutdown: >15V
No load current draw when power save on: 0.8-0.9A
No load current draw when power save off: 4.0-4.5A
Certificate: CE
ATS 12V 32000W Peak 8000W LF Split Phase Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter DC 12V to AC 110V&220V 60Hz, with 120A BC/UPS / LCD Display.
They supply wires for connection to batteries.

Is this the one on Amazon? https://amzn.to/2H6rhQh

 

[Bob S]

If I had known how coveted that 3000W brick

Gunni, did you remove the switch and if so how did you cover it?

 

[Pagan Baby]

I put a Magnum mms1012 charger/inverter (1000W) in the boat last summer with battery monitor and remote. I wired the inverter/charger direct from the AC main panel connected to the battery charger circuit. I then disconnected all of the AC outlets from the main AC panel (there are only three) and hooked them up to a three circuit blue seas sub panel. The inverter feeds the sub panel. I used #10 AC three wire to go from the AC main panel to the inverter and then back to the sub-panel. The DC side goes from the main battery on/off switch to a 250A class T fuse and I put an on/off switch in the DC circuit after the fuse. DC side is wired with #1 cable.

I didn’t get a chance to use the inverter stand-alone much this fall but the charger has worked like a champ. Siting the inverter was a bit of a pain but I was able to build a removable mount in the settee back that minimized the cable run on both the DC and AC side. I did have to add ventilation holes and I may add a small fan if I sense that the inverter getting too warm during the summer months.

Only problem I ran into was the case ground from the inverter to the ships ground. From what I understand code is that the case ground should be wired to carry the same current as the DC + and -, so should have used the same size grounding wire as the DC cable, but the little screw /compression fitting they provide wouldn’t accept anything larger then #8.

Reason for going with the inverter charger was that I needed to replace the battery charger and also wanted ability to run a microwave, hair dryer, or small power tools at anchor.

 

[StargazerP303]

Is this the one on Amazon? https://amzn.to/2H6rhQh

Yes it is dlochner. Can't remember the one I purchased but this one looks pretty good.