Can't help myself, but I don't believe I've ever experienced sour muscles!
Benefits / drawbacks of going bigger
- Thread starter john6206
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- bigger marina trailer boat
My thoughts (for what little they are worth):
- The smaller the boat, the more it gets used. On the other hand, for sailboats, stability goes up sharply with length. It takes about 19ft +/- to get to the point where there is enough ballast/displacement/stability that crew weight on the rail is not required to keep to the boat upright.
- I owned an ODay 25 on a trailer. When one became available, I got a slip for the boat. I had the best of both worlds - easy day sail use, trailer when I wanted to go some place difference. The ODay 25 went from Miami to the Bahamas, from Key West to Dry Tortugas, and twice cruised the North Channel of Lake Huron - and day sailed on Biscayne Bay. Similarly, today I have a Mariner 19 on a boat lift at the house with a trailer. Walk down to the dock, lower the lift and I'm read to sail locally. When I wanted to join the Mariner Rendezvous in Connecticut (3 day, 19 boat Mariner cruise), I trailered up to Connecticut and back. I would not go beyond a trailerable sailboat. But that's me.
- I have to single hand because wife won't go with me. I'm not sure there's a sailboat big enough that she would be happy on. I was hoping the Mariner would work, but so far no.
Absolutely incorrect. I've owned a Catalina 22, a 25 and for 25 years our C34. When we got the C34 we said we're gonna disprove that old BS sawhorse.
And we did. 4-5 years on the 22, 11 years on the 25 and 25 years on the 34.
Please don't perpetuate things that are untrue.
And we did. 4-5 years on the 22, 11 years on the 25 and 25 years on the 34.
Please don't perpetuate things that are untrue.
LoL
[QUOTE="pgandw, post: 1801793, member: 163560"
You are avoiding the hassles of rigging & de-rigging by placing your trailerable boat in a slip or on a lift. Unfortunately, very few sailboat owners have the luxury of having property with a lift or dock in their backyard.
I suspect that there are many trailer sailboats that sit unused because of the rigging/de-rigging issue, especially those who want to single hand. It is a nice thought to be able to trailer the boat anywhere; however, with family & work commitments, how often is that likely to happen. I can't have a boat parked in my subdivision driveway year round because of restrictive covenants; I have owned trailerable power boats that I paid storage yards to park the boat to keep it off my property.
My advice is to give the Catalina 28 a try. The 28 is a great intermediate sized boat with most home conveniences. Very enjoyable to jump aboard and be capable of leaving the slip in 10 minutes! Also great to get away from the house to work on the boat or just chill out & have a beer (or two) while chatting with your slip neighbors. I sense a bit of apprehension in making the jump to a bigger & more complex boat; however, just as you learned to sail the trailer boats, you will learn to sail & maintain the 28 by way of books, dock neighbors, & SBO site. My guess is that you will own the 28 for a year or two, and develop the common affliction of "two footitis", for which there is no cure!! In the unlikely event that you do not like the larger boat, it should be readily marketable.
Best of luck & let us know the outcome.
- I owned an ODay 25 on a trailer. When one became available, I got a slip for the boat. I had the best of both worlds - easy day sail use, trailer when I wanted to go some place difference. Similarly, today I have a Mariner 19 on a boat lift at the house with a trailer. Walk down to the dock, lower the lift and I'm read to sail locally. When I wanted to join the Mariner Rendezvous in Connecticut (3 day, 19 boat Mariner cruise), I trailered up to Connecticut and back. I would not go beyond a trailerable sailboat. But that's me.[/QUOTE]
You are avoiding the hassles of rigging & de-rigging by placing your trailerable boat in a slip or on a lift. Unfortunately, very few sailboat owners have the luxury of having property with a lift or dock in their backyard.
I suspect that there are many trailer sailboats that sit unused because of the rigging/de-rigging issue, especially those who want to single hand. It is a nice thought to be able to trailer the boat anywhere; however, with family & work commitments, how often is that likely to happen. I can't have a boat parked in my subdivision driveway year round because of restrictive covenants; I have owned trailerable power boats that I paid storage yards to park the boat to keep it off my property.
My advice is to give the Catalina 28 a try. The 28 is a great intermediate sized boat with most home conveniences. Very enjoyable to jump aboard and be capable of leaving the slip in 10 minutes! Also great to get away from the house to work on the boat or just chill out & have a beer (or two) while chatting with your slip neighbors. I sense a bit of apprehension in making the jump to a bigger & more complex boat; however, just as you learned to sail the trailer boats, you will learn to sail & maintain the 28 by way of books, dock neighbors, & SBO site. My guess is that you will own the 28 for a year or two, and develop the common affliction of "two footitis", for which there is no cure!! In the unlikely event that you do not like the larger boat, it should be readily marketable.
Best of luck & let us know the outcome.
Hi John,
Your sailing experience leads me to believe that you won't be satisfied coastal cruising Lake Michigan, staying close to the home port. The fact that you prefer the destinations that are further away from home leads me to think that you would soon be setting your sights on visiting overnight destinations. Hence, if you think the 28' boat does not make you comfortable crossing Lake Michigan, you will be pining for a boat that will make you comfortable enough to go where you want to go (and not be limited by daysails in your immediate area). Honestly, it sounds like you are leaning towards moving on from the trailer-sailer lifestyle and wanting to sail a boat that suits your desire to visit interesting places. That's why I continue to advise that you probably won't be satisfied with a boat less than 30'. There is a significant difference when moving into the mid-size length. Your jump from 18' to 28' may seem like a giant step at first, but I think that it isn't as much of a step-up in comfort as you think. You may find that the step up from 28' to 30' (at least in a Catalina) is a larger step than the leap from 18' to 28' (odd as that sounds). You may find the 28' boat still seems like a smaller boat, except now you are tied to a marina. If you are going to make that leap into the marina experience, you may as well go all out and get the boat that really expands your horizons.
(With apologies for continuing the derailment…)Can't help myself, but I don't believe I've ever experienced sour muscles!
Muscle burn while exercising is caused by anaerobic metabolism forming lactic acid buildup in the muscle tissue. Old milk undergoes fermentation that turns lactose into lactic acid, a sour flavor. So there you go - burning muscles are sour muscles.
Purchased our first sail boat, an H28 in 1999. It helped us decide whether sailing was worth the experience. It was. Got bit hard. We purchased our next boat, a P42, in 2002, because the Admiral really liked the aft cabin. Okay by me, must keep her happy. We've sailed Belle-Vie thousands of miles all over PNW waters including several two month plus cruises. No regrets. Yes it costs more; slip fees, insurance, repairs, etc., etc., etc. Much like a home, our first was a two bedroom one bath 650 square foot home. Our current home includes five bedrooms, two and a half baths, 3,000 square feet, including two bonus rooms. Insurance, taxes, repairs, cost way more than the smaller home, for sure. Was it worth it, yup!!!
It's a buildup of lactic acid, so yes, they're sour and sore.Can't help myself, but I don't believe I've ever experienced sour muscles!
I agree to a POINT Stu. Several friends I know moved up and promptly reduced usage. Likely two reasons; first related directly to boat size in that handling became much tougher. One friend bought an old 34footer,and it is too much as docking becomes harder, sail handling becomes more difficult. So harder to use, the owner may skip a day they would normally go out on because they don't want the struggle. Second, may simply be coincidental and by the time they upgraded, loss of enthusiasm for the sport.
My experience is that 30ft is still manageable for docking and line handling. 32ft may be a sweet spot per prior advice for cruising anywhere in the great lakes though I have taken mine already up the michigan shore and gained confidence. Across the lake? sure!
I am looking for 36ft range next though: more room/comfort. Boat yoga is tight and the furniture is miniaturized on this boat. 35-36 seems to be where everything is full-sized. 37ft is max for my storage unit. But will it be too much to handle in docking and sailing? Modern sailplans have become easier to manage, but freeboard has increased, so docking maybe not so much easier than before? That is the current dilemma.
No, but in the beginning, yes, because I did not understand how to handle Belle-Vie and her high freeboard in certain situations. But over time I learned a number of maneuvering skills that helped this solo sailor. Now, for the most part, she is a breeze to dock and sail. Understanding how your boat behaves when prevailing currents and wind present certain challenges, these maneuvers help. Whatever the situation, first reading the currents and wind, then executing the maneuver to compensate for these conditions makes a huge difference in the outcome. I cover some of these maneuvers in the Boat Info tab, 42.
I think that depends on the person. My family has moved up from a 28 to a 37. There are definitely days that we can go out and enjoy now that would’ve been uncomfortably rough in the 28. I don’t think we’ve had any days that we thought were just too rough to maneuver in the slip or too hard to handle sails, unless it was also just so rough that it’d be uncomfortable in any boat.
Regarding docking with higher freeboard. My wife and I are getting older. A few years ago she declared that she was no longer going to jump onto the dock when we were docking. What to do? New wife was out of the question. Instead, I devised the "no jump cleat snagger." It consists of an expandable aluminum boat pole with a dock line running through the center. The pre-measured dock line attaches to our mid point cleat on the toe rail. The line runs through the pole to a braided loop held open by a clear pvc hose bent into a loop on the other end. The pole can reach about six feet out to the side. Wife stands in the cockpit and slips the loop over the dock cleat at the end of our slip as we return. As the line stretches out we slide into our slip until the snagger brings us to a stop. I leave the boat in forward idling and the boat stays put against the dock. Now the wife can safely step down onto the dock and attach the remaining dock lines. No one jumps and I stay at the helm. Come to think about it I could probably
do this alone. Easy to make a snagger and dock your larger boat safely.
Such a fact makes perfect sense, even though it feels counter intuitive. I understand your statement. With small boats, management can be done without boat skills. Jump to a dock, grab the line, hull the beast around like a small dog on a leash. A 2,000 lb boat is not much sitting in water. Grow your boat size and that approach will not work with a 20,000 lb boat. You actually need to learn small boat handling skills to dock, pick up people overboard, safely manage the boat.
Attempting to do that as a solo sailor is even more of a challenge. You need to make the boat work for you not the other way around. Not all owners are up to the challenge.
Terry. Big boats require an owner and crew to have a plan to execute all maneuvers. There is a learning curve. Made steeper if the owner is lacking in understanding the basics. Make that a solo sailor, and there are limits to the ability of the sailor to physically handle sails and hardware on the boat. You have earned the skills to handle your boat. I am sure they were not over night.Good for you Roy.
Jumping to the dock to stop a boat is so dangerous there should be a sign in every marina. No Jumping.My opinion, any boat over 20 ft should use small boat handling skills to manage the boat in tight quarters and when docking. Learn the skills when the Boat is small and you will be set for life.
Your “no jump cleat snagger” is also called “use of a spring line” when maneuvering your boat at a dock. There are many ways to apply the line, I use the spring line all the time. It makes docking solo a lot easier.
So it looks like you could have a second career as a marriage councilor.
"You don't need a new wife... what you need is cleat snagger"
mot much more to add, other than agree with other responses. My friend in question has the necessary skills, but a 60's boat is simply not setup to manage sails solo sailing. With crew, no problem. But he/she does not have crew always, therefore less use.
For springing to the dock, we keep lines attached to the dock. Grab spring line, attach to bow (no mid-ship cleats) and then grab stern. Once those two are connected, we have total control over the boat in idle forward as others mentioned.
when things go AWRY OF PLANS, 30ft is still manageable to recover with the dog on a leash method. Sometimes ship happens, and sailing solo, the smaller size affords less force required for to recover. I also coast into the slip, coming in no faster than I am willing to hit the dock with. And since she is a beauty of a boat, that is much slower.
For springing to the dock, we keep lines attached to the dock. Grab spring line, attach to bow (no mid-ship cleats) and then grab stern. Once those two are connected, we have total control over the boat in idle forward as others mentioned.
when things go AWRY OF PLANS, 30ft is still manageable to recover with the dog on a leash method. Sometimes ship happens, and sailing solo, the smaller size affords less force required for to recover. I also coast into the slip, coming in no faster than I am willing to hit the dock with. And since she is a beauty of a boat, that is much slower.