Benefits / drawbacks of going bigger

Stu Jackson · Oct 15, 2023

John, I've owned boats since 1983 in San Francisco and sailed up here in 2016. Went through the same thought process.
1983-7: Catalina 22, trailer sailed The Bay in the winter, trailered up to Clear Lake in summers left in a marina. Being in the water was much more fun.
1987-1998: Catalina 25 SRFK, left in water in marina, sailed The Bay The Delta and the ocean all way to Monterey. Loved that boat.
1998 - now: Catalina 34, same grounds as the 25, but hot water showers and real headroom without lifting a poptop.

Great trip up here in 2016 - six weeks on the boat with my son.

Learning curve is actually more an issue with maneuvering and learning to dock. You simply MUST make time to practice. Take a day or two to learn it and prop walk and you're golden. Systems are step-by-step easy to do that way, learn electrical; when I did there was no internet, now there is, no excuse.

It's easier on your body once you ditch the trailer.

You can do the math on costs, that's the easy part, you've listed all the components. Hope you can find a slip or like my friend in Chicago a mooring buoy via his land stored in the marina dinghy. Good luck. The C28 is a nice boat, smallest Catalina with all the big boat systems. You can find the original brochures on the CY website under the Archived Brochures tab.

justsomeguy · Oct 15, 2023

john6206 said:
I welcome your feedback.

It seems you've hit on all the salient points concerning the "upgrade".
Sometimes I get reminiscent regarding the differences between the old Mac25 and my present boat. It certainly was a simpler time.

Ralph Johnstone · Oct 15, 2023

john6206 said:
3. The cabin would be comfortable enough that you could use it underway (we are never in our cabin while sailing now).

I hope that doesn't mean everybody heads for the cabin

! Actually, unless you're very resistant to sea-sickness, being below under way can often cause problems. Making lunch for everybody when the water's rough means popping up top for a minute every few minutes.

jssailem · Oct 15, 2023

john6206 said:
Have any of you made the jump from trailer to marina?
Any regrets?
Anything not on my list that I need to consider?

February 2015. Sold my beloved Montgomery15 of 18 years for my Cal35Cruiser S/V Hadley.
It is a different world. Better in many ways. Bigger and more extensive adventures. Engaging in mind and body. Projects a plenty to keep you busy. More money spent on the hobby as the boat demands more.

No regrets. There is an adaptation of activities. A big boat deserves big water to explore. My boat is 250 miles from home. So I travel more to enjoy the sailing, project work etc. But as you say the visits are like going to your own vacation home. The home is the adventure as well it can take you to adventures. I replaced the small trailer boat with a kayak. I can still play on the local waters and bays when the urge/need happens.

Clearly define your desires, space needs, think condo comforts. Identify the systems (i.e potty, shower, easy accessible bed) that will make the boat acceptable to you and your partner.

Then seek a boat that meets your desires and budget. There will be compromises. Agree on them. Look for structure and ability not bells and whistles on any boat you are considering. It is better to have new sails (sail boat power source) than a fancy electronics package (bling toys).

quadrille38 · Oct 15, 2023

john6206 said:
Hey everyone -

I've been sailing about 25 years, almost all trailer boats. I've owned three - sold off the Hunter 170, still own the Capri 18 and the Passagemaker Dinghy.

I dallied too long and the amazingly beautiful Nonsuch 26 got away, but there are always more boats for sale. The one that's caught my eye now is a Catalina 28. Seems to be in good shape for it's age, the price seems fair, new sails, new electronics, and it a good looking boat.

The thing I'm debating is trailer vs marina.

What I like about the trailer boat:
1. I can be in Suttons Bay on one weekend and Detour Village the next weekend.
2. It's super simple, sails well, easy (cheap) to maintain.
3. I enjoy doing the projects - thinking about painting it next summer - made cockpit cushions last year.

What I imagine I would like about going bigger:
1. Having a boat in a marina is like having a vacation home. Even if you don't get to sail, you can hang out in your waterfront cabin.
2. I wouldn't have to cram this aging body head first into a pup-tent-like cabin.
3. The cabin would be comfortable enough that you could use it underway (we are never in our cabin while sailing now).
4. Bigger boat might allow bigger adventures?? I wouldn't cross Lake Michigan on a 28 footer, but I can see sailing along the coast. I keep my 18 in the bays.
5. I still kind of enjoy the 90 minutes at the boat ramp on my 18 footer, but my wife clearly does not.

Concerns:
1. I'm not sure if there is a formula, but cost of ownership seems to increase with length more than 1:1. Marina fees, storage fees and maintenance and etc.
2. I think the learning curve would be a plus more than a drawback - but I need to learn a lot about the systems on a larger boat. The electrical system on my 18 is pretty simple - and there is no head or galley.
3. Most marinas in Michigan are owned by the DNR and they reserve most of the slips for transients. That means you can always find a place to visit, but it might be hard to find a place to park a 28 foot boat for the season.

Questions for you:
Have any of you made the jump from trailer to marina?
Any regrets?
Anything not on my list that I need to consider?

I welcome your feedback.

John

We have gone from a 22 to a 28 to a 34 and now a 38. I have generally found bigger is a bit easier (to a point) because they are more forgiving. In a small boat you make a mistake you are wet.
Docking bigger is more of a challenge but as Stu points out, practice can address that.
Boat being in a marina rigged and ready means I get to use it more. Yes trailerable allows more wide ranging experiences, but I found that with an hour drive to the lake, an hour to rig it, plus an hour to un rig and another hour to drive home, I tended to go only when the weather was perfect. Now I can zip over and go out for a sail without 4 hours of non sailing activity.

Two areas of bigger that most don’t think about that really hit me is bottom painting and topside waxing. Thankfully it’s only once a year because my back really screams at me after a day of that.
Your point on marina life is right on too. We love our friends and neighbors there.

Captain Larry-DH · Oct 15, 2023

You left out “unstepping the mast on a hot and humid day after you’ve already had too much sun, climbing up and down, up and down on the trailer while wiping sweat from your eyes“. I’d never get another trailer sailer, unless it‘s kept in the water during the season.

Tally Ho · Oct 15, 2023

I can only give you my perspective, but YMMV….

When I started looking for my first boat, I was really enamored with the MacGregor 28M. A water ballast, trailerable sailboat, arable of carrying a 50HP engine.

I found someone who sailed his Mac28X (similar to the M, but with a swing keel instead of the dagger board the M uses). The owner agreed to take me out for a sail on Lake Michigan, my planned sailing grounds.

awe met at his boat ramp, and spent 60 minutes setting the boat up, and then got under way. The Mac 26X with the water ballast didn’t handle the rough seas that day very well. I asked if we could motor back to the River to see how fast she could go, and if we could get her on a plane. We let the water ballast out, and motored back. The boat seemed to wallowa bit in the waves, could not get on a plane and in general wasnt very comfortable. When we got back to the ramp, we spent another 90 minutes tearing her down and getting her ready to trailer home.

I learned several things that day…

1) I wanted a boat at a marina because I didnt want to waste so much time setting up and tearing down the boat to go for a sail.

2) For Lake Michigan, I really wanted a 30-foot, with a diesel engine. A real keel, and a wheel (my preference).

I bought a 1998 28-foot Hunter 280 that checked most of the boxes. I sold it 5 years later and bought my current boat, a 1988 O’Day 322. The 5 foot difference between the 2 boats was pretty dramatic. And the 10-year difference in age also made a difference. I like to say that my O’Day 322 “has character”, which means she takes a bit more TLC.

Much more boat to maintain, but way better sailer too.

I love the cabin on my 32-foot boat…a real galley, private berths, heavy enough to sail on some challenging Lake Michigan seas.

But it does cost more to maintain, it cost more to keep in a slip and to store for the winter. I do all of my own maintenance, so that isn’t a big deal, but sails and other parts cost more because the boat is bigger.

Good luck on your decision.

Greg

RoyS · Oct 16, 2023

john6206 said:
1. Having a boat in a marina is like having a vacation home. Even if you don't get to sail, you can hang out in your waterfront cabin.

What you say is true. In my marina there is a family that has three sailboats that they use as vacation homes. They seldom sail but are always present at the marina. All these boats are within 40 feet of each other and they walk between them. They seem very happy with this arrangement and frequently upgrade to larger boats when they find one they like. I have owned a 27' and now a 33' and could never go back to the 27'. In my area it costs me about $10,000 a year to maintain, dock, insure, and store at the marina. Good luck.

Scott T-Bird · Oct 16, 2023

Do you only sail in far-away destinations that you have to travel hours to get to? What is your frequency for making trips and how long do you go away for? I get the impression that you may only use your boat for a few vacation trips and the sailing is more or less a camping experience for vacation. Or do you sail nearly every weekend at local lakes? Going from a trailer-sailer to a marina-based sailboat is a significant lifestyle change. You should consider that with a trailer-sailer, you are basically living with the comforts of home when you put the boat away if you are sailing frequently on local waters. If you are going to have a marina-based sailboat, you may miss the comforts of home when you spend weekends (or longer) away from home. If you use your trailerable boat only for longer trips away from home, you may miss that aspect the most.

But if you want a boat that you will be living on frequently, I'll suggest that a 28' boat may be lacking in comfort when staying overnight frequently. It probably seems huge now, but just wait a few seasons. We experienced that our 27' boat was spacious when we day-sailed on a lake, but when moving to a location that required a 2-hour drive, we were not comfortable as a couple staying for weekends. (I was fine when alone, but as a couple we didn't have enough room). We also found that the 32' boat was vastly more comfortable to sail, as well.

If you aren't comfortable crossing Lake Michigan in a 28' boat, then why would you get one to keep on Lake Michigan? The incremental expense from 28' to 30-32' may not be that significant for a marina-based boat. I think the extra couple of feet may be very significant when it comes with far more comfort at rest and at sail.

One aspect of a larger boat experience is that it is easy to get addicted to the maintenance and upgrade of all the boat systems. There is a never-ending list of projects that you will start to think about and eventually pursue. You will probably start to enjoy that part of it. It's satisfying to get immersed in it. Your partner may not understand ... :huh:

rgranger · Oct 16, 2023

HAVE YOU CONSIDERED DRY SLIPS?

I went through the same transition about 8 years ago.... BUT I SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE...

I started with a 21' Macgregor Venture.... then a Coronado 23,... and a few more boats in the middle and then... my last two recent (bigger) sailboats were not trailer-sailors but trailerable ... I had a Blaboa 26' and then a Hunter 26.

Both could be trailered but the set up time was significant...and not condusive to a day sail... so I kept them in a slip most of the time. But I could take them home for the winter and to do projects.... Having my boat in a slip meant I used it a lot more. On my H26, I slept out on the boat at least two nights a week.

I am now shopping for something in the 35+ range and like you... my main concern is learning new systems. For example, I just purchased Calder's Marine Diesel maint. book.

If you are thinking about a boat in the 26' range.... have you considered looking at those that are still trailer able. In addition to the advantages I listed above, you also open yourself up to marinas that allow for "dry slips". A dry slip is a parking spot where you can leave your boat on the trailer with the mast up. Dry slips are much less expensive, you don't get growth on your hull... there is less wear on the standing rigging and you can launch in minutes instead of hours. Also, most of the 25-26' trailer sailboats still use outboards so... one less system to learn.

Some trailerable 25+ boats to consider include in a search include...

Nor'sea 27 (center cockpit)-- (my personal favorite)
Macgregor 26S or 26D
Catalina 250
Hunter 26 or 260 (I loved my H26)
- These in blue font are water ballast so much easier to tow but have different sailing characteristics than other boats.
O'day 25
O'Day 240,
Islander 24,
Moore 24,
Cal 25,
Helms 25,
Balboa 26

Skipper J · Oct 16, 2023

YouTube videos are a good place to get the basics of boat systems. Everything eventually breaks, so I think it's good to imagine how you would repair or contact help for every componant on your boat. Then you can enjoy the good times.

There are apps to help you practice docking. From what I've been reading, making sure the keel, standing rigging and through-hulls are in good shape would be top priority in purchasing a big used boat.

rgranger · Oct 16, 2023

Tally Ho said:
The 5 foot difference between the 2 boats was pretty dramatic.

My first transition like this was from a 21' to a 23' and I was shocked at how much more room the 23' had... and then I ran the numbers...

The 21' boat was a Macgregor V21 with a 7.5' beam and about 4' interior head room. The volume inside a rectangular cube with those dimentions is 630 cubic feet. Cut that in half to account for the fact that a boat is not cubic and you have approximately 315 cubic feet in the 21' boat (you can refine the model if you need/want a better number). Now the 23' boat had an 8' beam and about 4.8' interior head room. Running those numbers and you get an interior space of 441 cubic feet. Those two extra feet increased your internal volume by 40%. My exact volumes are probably rather crude based on the way I estimated numbers but I suspect my % change is rather close.

(441-315)/315 = 0.4

If you are going to slip it... get the biggest boat you can comfortably afford and also checks your boxes.

You need to think hard about what your boxes are. For example... one of my favorite cruising grounds is the NC outer banks... and there are a LOT of shifting shoal sand bars there. So I made a retractable keel a must have. That really limited the boats I could compare.

If you plan on staying on board extended periods...consider this...when you get into the 30+ foot range, you start seeing boats with legit. 2-state room layouts. And center cockpit boats have a berth aft with a true walk-around bed. Nice feature if you are living on board for extended periods. You can also run an AC in the aft cabin only... saving a lot of electricity and giving yourself a comfortable place to sleep at night.

Starting in the 90's you start seeing the sugar scoop transom. A nice thing about the sugar scoom is you have a landing platform to unload provisions from your dingy... and walking onto and off of the boat at the slip (if you back in) is a snap. I had that on my H26 and LOVED it.

For example, here is a Freadom 45 CC with sugar scoop and davits for your dink and an aft cabin with walk around bed...

If I could find a slip I could afford in Charleston, I would have already made an offer on this Freadom.

Ward H · Oct 16, 2023

I had an O'day 25 for 6 years. It was a fun boat with no systems except an outboard. This let me concentrate on learning to sail a keel boat and sail trim. The O'day had a cabin but not enough space to overnight on comfortably.
After 6 years I moved up to a Catalina 30. I was ready to start spending more time on the boat, in a slip and on the water and I wanted something more comfortable with more amenities.
I knew this would mean I needed to learn electrical, diesel, water and sanitation systems for a boat this size. Learning these systems was a sharp learning curve but well worth it because I now have a boat set up with what makes us comfortable.
I found the handling of the larger boat was no way as sharp a learning curve as the systems.

The downfall is the project creep when doing upgrades, as @Scott T-Bird mentioned.

Apex · Oct 17, 2023

28 is a comfortable size, and the Catalina 28 has a lot of interior. I moved up from Catalina 25 to ODay28. It was much more comfortable, esp. headroom, and the diesel inboard and head are huge gains. Now a C&C 30, is not much bigger but a more modern boat with more systems and a swim platform. The 30ft range is still very easy to manage wrt docking. Systems are not difficult to learn or maintain. and marinas at 30ft is a sweet spot for availability. Over that and waitlists get long. Good luck.

sailme88 · Oct 17, 2023

Join a boat club that offers a wide variety of boats to experience. View each outing as a test drive...draw your own conclusions based on your experiences and not the opinions (bias) of others....

rgranger · Oct 17, 2023

john6206 said:
@rgranger ,
I would absolutely be considering a larger trailerable, except I have no interest in buying a truck. A bigger wagon would require a bigger horse. Also, a Bigger boat would also have a heavier mast, which would kind of defeat the purpose. Considered the Compac Eclipse. It promises easy trailering and rigging, but it’s out of my towing capacity.

The water ballast boats can be towed with a smaller vehicle since you dump the ballast at the launch ramp. But the mast on the H26 is heavy. And regardless of what @Crazy Dave Condon says about it... it does take about an hour to set up the H26 at the ramp (sorry Dave

I like the compac as a compromise for a couple doing some boat camping. They are easy to set up and sail well enough. They are slow but if you wanted to get there quick, you would buy a power boat. I think the Catalina 22 and the Macgregor V22-2 also fall into the boat camping category. I have had many great adventures with my kids on a Mac 22.

O'day also makes a few boats in this size range but I don't have any first-hand experience on those boats. They do review well though.

Have you looked at a Rhodes 22? They are surpisingly roomy inside... and the cockpit can be converted into an enclosed berth area. In theory you can sleep 6 (which I did when my kids were still very young). But those numbers quoted by manufacturers never account for space to stow your gear and provisions. I've chartered one before and we had a teriffic 4-day weekend on her. They are also very sturdy and would work very well in bigger waters. I actually own a Rhodes 22 hull and plan to restore her when I retire.

The Rhodes 22 Owners' Group

Rhodes 22 - Practical Sailor

Since 1974, Practical Sailor’s independent testing has taken the guesswork out of boat and gear buying.

www.practical-sailor.com

jssailem · Oct 17, 2023

I boat camped for 18 years. It was a lot of fun. With a bigger boat it suits the older bones and sore muscles. I still get a work out on the boat. I still do boat yoga, but it is during repairs not getting in and out of the bunks.