Benefits / drawbacks of going bigger

[rgranger]

You actually answered many of your own questions as already pointed out, but I will give you my 2 cents.

Nice write up… more like 2 dollars

 

[George Braun]

we moved up from an Islander 32 to a Hunter 36 with the specific intent of NOT moving to a boat that would take 3 people to manage. Not retired, so sail on weekends with occasional longer cruises. Didn't want a boat that is too tough to get out of a slip in sporty conditions for 2 people. Always set 40' as the biggest we would consider. The H36 fits the bill just perfectly for us. Plenty comfy. That said, lots of freeboard to get blown around in the fairway.

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi George. H36, a nice boat, and perfect for two people. Glad you're enjoying her. A similar experience as yours. Bought an H28 shortly after retiring from my 31 year first career. Sailed her for three years and fell head over heels. Stepped up to a P42 and have not looked back. I'm almost 20 years into my second career with no retirement in sight, well maybe in 12 years. Really enjoying the cruising grounds of the PNW.

 

[Guystapo]

Its common to get 4 footitis when it comes to sailing..I started on a Catalina 22 in Arizona ..Florida I have owned 2 Catalina 30s and now a 34 ..its way easy

 

[john6206]

Hey everyone - I can't believe how stupid I am - I never found that little button that moves to page 2!
I kept looking at this thread and saying, "nope - I've read that one before!"

Anyway - I read three pages of comments today. Thanks for all the advice.

@dmdiehl64 how much is a slip in Tawas?

I've considered Bay City and Lake Erie. Lake Erie is the closest to my house. We kept our boat in Lake St Clair for a year. Had some great days on the lake, but you have to go during the work week or super early in the morning or the 50' mega yachts blasting around at 40kts will make it pretty tough to sail. Also - I-94 was under construction the whole summer (as it almost always is) so the nominal 60 minute drive was almost always 2hr plus that year.

 

[john6206]

Thanks for the great advice everyone! I may decide to pull the string one of these days, but not this spring. We have some pretty good trips planned on the Capri 18.

The great thing for trailer boats is that most Michigan Marinas are operated by the DNR, and they prioritize transient slips. It's always easy to find a marina slip even in the most desirable locations, even in the peak season. A lot of seasonal slips have wait lists that if I got myself on it right now my grandson might get to the top some day. OR as mentioned above - private marinas can charge $$$$.

Next thing I have to master is single handed mast raising. My wife and I have it down to an art, but I think I'd sail a lot more if I left her at home now and then (more my thing than hers).

JK

 

[pgandw]

Safe single handed mast raising requires additional equipment to replace the extra set of hands and brains of the second person. I face the same quandary with my 19ft Mariner.

After reading numerous articles on single handed mast raising, including some by Mariner owners, I came up with a list of requirements for the system:

• process must be able to be safely stopped or be safely reversed to starting point when it's discovered shrouds are tangled, rigging was not set up right, or anything is not going right. If you are walking your mast up, you simply walk it back down. If you are using a winch, winch must be reversible under control at any point.
• Mariner has a hinged tabernacle which raises the mast from the stern. The Mariner has a 25ft long mast on a 19ft boat, so the mast is almost balanced when in the tabernacle and sitting on the mast crutch mounted on the rudder gudgeons. So care is required when moving the mast aft to insert the mast base into the tabernacle. I installed a removable trailer roller on top of the mast crutch to facilitate moving the mast fore and aft from/to trailering position from tabernacle.
• Mariner has aft led shrouds, the backstay is almost an afterthought. So when the mast is is the up position the shrouds are tight, but in lower positions, the shrouds are loose and provide ZERO lateral support. (Don't ask me how I know this, but I didn't ding things too badly when I dropped the mast on the starboard quarter) Some kind of lateral stabilization is needed until the mast is at least 2/3 of the way up.
• Walking up the mast is practical with 2 people, but there is no way to hold the mast up while attaching the forestay with just one person. The winch system should be able to tension things enough with the jib halyard to fasten the forestay.
• Any gin pole must have enough strength for the job and secured enough not to flop over during the winching process (my first gin pole broke when the mast shifted laterally, again dropping the mast on the starboard quarter).

All this points out that just one other person keeping tension on the jib halyard while I walk the mast up, and pulling on the jib halyard while I pin the forestay, is all that is needed to save an extra 20+ minutes of work singlehanded rigging of gin pole and baby stays. I have used people standing around at the ramp for this task instead of rigging gin pole.

My gin pole is made of 2x6 with a reversible trailer winch mounted on the gin pole. Metal straps reinforce the jaw area that goes around the mast. 1st failed gin pole was a 2x4 where the jaws broke when the mast swung laterally. I added rope baby stays from about 6ft up the mast (so I can remove them after mast is up) to straps with small blocks on the cabin corners. The baby stays are run through the blocks to the jib sheet cam cleats. The block straps are located a few inches forward and lower than the tabernacle hinge. This allows me to tension the baby stays with the mast lowered, and know they will provide adequate support when the mast is low, but loosen slightly as the shrouds take over. Gin pole length must be set to fit inside the forestay so forestay can be attached with the gin pole in place. I run the gin pole winch line (I replaced the strap with 3/8" line) through a block attached to the aft hole in the stemhead fitting (serves as jib downhaul block in normal use) to the bow cleat. The forestay is pinned in the forward hole on the stemhead fitting. The jib tack is shackled to the middle hole.

At the launching ramp:

• Attach trailer roller to mast crutch. Place mast on roller.
• Roll mast back, and place base in tabernacle
• Attach baby stays to hold mast base in tabernacle, and support laterally when mast is raised
• Loosen shrouds (if not already done) several turns of turnbuckles (count turns!) on shrouds. Makes attaching forestay much easier!
• Attach gin pole to mast, and lead winch line.
• Attach jib halyard to eye on gin pole. Attach forestay to extra eye on gin pole.
• Winch up mast, attach forestay. Remove gin pole.
• Tighten shrouds, remove baby stays.

Each boat is different, so you will have to modify the above for your boat. On a Mariner, the boom is way too long to rig as a gin pole. And the tabernacle does not allow raising from the bow. If the shrouds are not led aft, but are in line with the mast, you don't need baby stays. If your mast is shorter relative to mast step and boat length, you may not need/want roller on mast crutch. And so on.

Fred W
Stuart Mariner 19 Sweet P
Yeopim Creek, Albemarle Sound, NC

 

[john6206]

@pgandw

Thanks for the info. I'm pretty familiar with the theory. Just haven't done it yet.
Pretty simple with two. One is intimidating.

If you loosen your shrouds when raising the mast and then tighten them again, do you use slip rings to lock them in place? I think just installing and removing the slip rings would add frustrating hours to the set up process. I thought about tensioning levers, but haven't done that yet.

 

[LloydB]

What's a slip ring? Probably not but I thought I'd ask anyway.

 

[jssailem]

I suspect he wanted to type “Split Ring”.
Something like this


To answer the question. No I use cotter pins and riggers tap to reduce the opportunity for a gouge as I walk past the turnbuckles. Some folk use welding wire.

 

[pgandw]

@pgandwIf you loosen your shrouds when raising the mast and then tighten them again, do you use slip rings to lock them in place? I think just installing and removing the slip rings would add frustrating hours to the set up process. I thought about tensioning levers, but haven't done that yet.

You are correct. When I bought my boat, three turnbuckles had CS Johnson Hook and Loop Locking Wrap Pins installed. The first time I set up the mast with split rings or cotter pins on the remaining turnbuckles, I said I have to get some more of these. Finally found them at Defender Marine. Spendy at $12/turnbuckle (2 velcro locking pins), but absolutely worth it IMO.

The other piece of gear I got was a Loos tension gauge. Again, spendy at $150 for fancier version you can leave on the shroud while tuning, but the time savings is immense in getting the rig quickly tuned (I suck at getting tension right by feel or trying to sight up the mast). The Mariner Class Association has recommended starting tensions for the shrouds and forestay when tuning for racing. I use those as an approximation. The Mariner Class Association also had a racing recommendation for starting point of mast rake, measuring from mast head to transom. I bought a 35ft tape measure, tape it to the main halyard shackle, and run it up to the mast head. Then measuring to the transom helps me get the forestay about right to set mast rake. Then I measure to the eye of each shroud chainplate, make sure the two sides are equal length (centers the mast), then set the shroud tension with the Loos gauge. Then I'm done with rig tuning, install the velcro locking pins into the turnbuckles. Takes about 10 minutes.

Using the Mariner Class recommendations has made a big difference in my sail trim. Forestay and jib no longer sag off in decent winds. Settings are measurable and repeatable. Did I say how much I hate split rings and/or cotter pins?

Fred W

 

[john6206]

@pgandw
wow, I’ve never seen those!
gotta get 5 of those.

 

[MitchM]

we went from weekend sailing of a 20' trailerable cal on a local lake 50 minutes from home to a 30' those 2 1/2 hors one way on the great lakes. the 30 ft Rhodes Seafarer had standing head room, an AC /heat Pump system , a Dickinson propane fireplace, a hot water heater and shower, a big regret, , lots of room, and which all seemed to break simultaneously . I spent more time fixing the comfortable big boat than I did sailing it. then we bought an 05 32 footer, with even more complicated systems, plus hydraulic steering , 2 helm stations and lots of sophisticated stuff that took a long while to understand. by 2020 I was spending more time driving to it and fixing it than sailing it. so we sold it. now I'm happy puttering around the same small local lake again with a small day sailing row and sail east port pram. (my home made row/sail ---self built kit boat, look it up on chesapeake light craft's web site. there's one or 2 advertised in the 'boat bazaar' every month or so. ) at age 75 I believe in KISS . I have returned to "keep it simple . . .. " now, both the spouse and the dog are both very happy and very relieved at not having to spend inordinate amounts of time visiting 'the big boat. . ' .

 

[john6206]

Thanks @MitchM -

I built the passagemaker dinghy, the bigger sibling of your Eastport.

Effortless to rig and launch, fun to sail (went with the lug sail option). It really is perfect for the little lakes in the Pinckney Rec Area near my house.

Many days I am pretty content with my Passagemaker and a 600 acre lake. But I do like the Great Lakes as well.

 

[john6206]

I suspect he wanted to type “Split Ring”.

Indeed, that’s what I tried to type.
Although I usually call them “damnit rings.”

 

[higgs]

If most of your cruises are weekenders any size with bunks will work, but if you want to do longer cruises bigger is better up to a point. I had a 34 and found it to be a great boat for 2 or 3 on an extended cruise - a month or more - and great for 4 for a week or two. I could single hand the 34, but added crew was always welcome. Getting into the high 30s and low 40s is even more comfortable, but then you start having problems finding dock space at marinas and handling the larger boat with a couple can get tricky.