How to attach more rode?

Ross · Dec 21, 2009

If they are the same size then short spilce them. If they are not, then eye splice them with thimbles.

Edit to add: two whippings a few inches apart are better than one.

Sumner · Dec 21, 2009

Ross said:
If they are the same size then short splice them. If they are not, then eye splice them with thimbles.

Edit to add: two whippings a few inches apart are better than one.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/09-10-5-Powell-09.html

I ran into this problem at Lake Powell where one 200 foot line wouldn't reach a suitable rock onshore to tie two. I just had to tie a knot in them there as I didn't have time or the right parts (thimbles) to do better. They held as I'm here, but I wanted to do something better as knots really decrease the strength of a line.

Ross I was going to do what you suggest, but and maybe this is what your are suggesting, I am going to splice thimbles on the ends and then put a shackle through each thimble with one link from a chain in the middle between them.

So it would be end of the line with a thimble, then a shackle that goes through the thimble and one side of the single or two chain links, then the second shackle goes from the chain link to the other thimble.

I wonder if this would work better than one shackle linking the two thimbles directly together. Anyone done either of these? Is this what you are suggesting Ross?

Thanks,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

jibes138 · Dec 21, 2009

Not necessarily the strongest but maybe the easiest

if you have an eye splice in each rode you can pass one line through the eye of the other then back through its' own eye. It is good practice to eye splice triple strand also instead of just whipping the end to keep it from fraying I like to use a backsplice, very professional looking and very easy once you do it a few times. If you are using braided line you can make the eye splices using my "Magic Splicing Tool" that I have advertised right here on this site many times. I am not making a lot of money on the "Magic Splicing Tool" because they are free by making them yourself.

Sumner · Dec 21, 2009

jibes138 said:
if you have an eye splice in each rode you can pass one line through the eye of the other then back through its' own eye. It is good practice to eye splice triple strand also instead of just whipping the end to keep it from fraying I like to use a backsplice, very professional looking and very easy once you do it a few times. If you are using braided line you can make the eye splices using my "Magic Splicing Tool" that I have advertised right here on this site many times. I am not making a lot of money on the "Magic Splicing Tool" because they are free by making them yourself.

Thanks I'll look for the "tool".

Would these lines then always be together or would you make the splice on the spot or what? I want to keep the rodes separate unless I need to put them together to get the length. At that point I might be trying to anchor/tie to shore at a difficult time and/or place, like in the picture, and need to do it quickly.

Thanks,

Sum

Ross · Dec 21, 2009

If you wish to separate the lines then a shackle is the way to go. otherwise Interlock the two thimbles and eye spilce them each. A back splice is excellant but a sewn on whipping is almost a durable.

jibes138 · Dec 21, 2009

A braided eye splice takes a little time.

If you are in a real rush you can always go with a couple of bowlines but lose a bit of strength because of the knot. An eye splice retains about 90% of the line strength. I like Ross' suggestion of a shackle, quick, easy, strong.
Here is another picture of the "Magic_Splicing_Tool." Somewhere in the archives I posted directions for use. Search on magic splicing tool to find them. This tool is fantastic and it is virtually free. I've used the fancy expensive tools, in comparison the inventors should be in the cell next to Bernie Madoff. They stink. The magic splicing tool was invented based on a tool I bought that worked great but broke after a few uses. I looked at it and said I can make the same thing out of a coat hanger for free and it will never break. I still have the original tool and it is going strong. For smaller line you just need a piece of smaller diameter stiff wire to do the same thing.
Triple strand is simple to splice but braided takes some practice, so if you are in a rush this is not the way to go but if you splice your lines in advance with eye splices then they are ready for use as dock lines. Putting in a thimble as Ross suggests still requires a splice so use the tool.

Steve Christensen · Dec 22, 2009

Ashley Bend

Long term I would definitely suggest a short splice. But whenever I have had to do this sort of thing - either with shore lines or anchor lines - I have always preferred to trust the Ashley Bend knot. It's very secure and easy to tie, though like most knots it will reduce the line strength a bit.

Ron20324 · Dec 22, 2009

Put the thimbles on end of each of the lines. Instead of your thimble-shackle-chain link-to shackle-to thimble, get maybe a foot of heavy chain to loop through both thimbles, then shackle the two ends of the chain together with an also-large shackle.

Sumner · Dec 22, 2009

Ron20324 said:
Put the thimbles on end of each of the lines. Instead of your thimble-shackle-chain link-to shackle-to thimble, get maybe a foot of heavy chain to loop through both thimbles, then shackle the two ends of the chain together with an also-large shackle.

Thanks for the idea Ron, but I don't know what I would be gaining? We all know the saying "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link" . What your suggesting would be strong at the union of the two rodes, but my weakest link would be one of the links by the anchor section or probably the line itself. I also can't get any bigger chain than I'm using through the eye of the thimble. The chain link with a shackle on each side would be easy to store and attach. Also the shackles would be orienated with the rounded end on the thimble eye like they are where the chain meets the rope on an anchor rode and the squared off end would be on the link like it is on the anchor rode. Maybe I'm missing something

.

Hermit Scott said:
..............I guess I will eyesplice them with thimbles. .............

http://www.animatedknots.com/splice/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

jibes138 -- Thanks for the picture. I was able to find it last night after a bunch of searching. I'll try it out and if it works good I'll send you a check for what it cost me

.

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

Ron20324 · Dec 22, 2009

Sorry, Hermit, I overlooked the part where Sumner hijacked your thread and there were two different problems being discussed.

jibes138 · Dec 22, 2009

Hermitt Let me get this straight

Are iyou saying your problem is how to connect a double braid rode to a triple strand nylon rode?
You can't do a short splice in this case. Look at the picture of an eye splice. If you want to connect two straight lengths of triple strand you can basically splice them together just like an eye splice but without the loop. First splice one into the other starting some length away from the end, then unlay the strands of the second line and splice those into the first. You end up with a straight, very strong line but with a big bulge in the middle where the line is about twice as fat as the rest. After each splice put the splice on the ground and roll it with your foot to smooth it out and make it round.
So getting back to triple strand to braided. I say go with an eye splice on each, then pass the straight end of the braided through the eye of the triple strand, pass the straight braided end through the eye in the braided rode and pull it all the way through to cinch it up on the braided line. No shackles, no chain, just rope and pretty strong. It will come apart fairly easily but you might need your rigging knife to pry it apart. When I made my Jordan Series Drogue I bought lengths of 5/8 braided line I got as remnants at Defender and I connected them this way. Since there was already one joint in the design like this the extra joints don't weaken the rode any more than the first one. Each joint further away from the boat has less stress on it. I made a bunch of eye splices in braided line with my magic splicing tool so I got a lot of practice. The magic splicing tool was invented when I paid 11.95 for the best tool ever, but it was a brazed assembly and broke after a couple uses. The coat hangar has no joint to break and is good ductile strong material. The little hooks on the end are to hook into the sheeth to pass it through the core. You hook it in place then use whipping twine to hold it or just some painters tape will work with care. Learn how to make braided eye splices it is a great thing to learn for your boating toolkit. Paying someone to do this for you is a waste of money, just follow the directions step by step and you will have a eye splice as good as any.

Sumner · Dec 22, 2009

Hermit Scott said:
.......... He seems to be facing the same thing I am.

Yep, sorry if there was any confusion on that,

Sum

Joe · Dec 24, 2009

Carrick Bend... not shackles and splices.

Hermit...... The knot you can use to add a similarly sized section of line to your exisiting rode or tow line is called a "carrick bend"

http://www.animatedknots.com/carrick/index.php

Using this knot will allow you to employ your newly purchased line for other purposes, like towing or extending a mooring line. If you're jonesing to tie in an eye splice.. just put it on one end. Leave the other end plain (and whipped, of course).

catsailor · Dec 24, 2009

Neither splices nor knots fail in practice on boats this size.

Joe said:
Hermit...... The knot you can use to add a similarly sized section of line to your exisiting rode or tow line is called a "carrick bend"

http://www.animatedknots.com/carrick/index.php

Using this knot will allow you to employ your newly purchased line for other purposes, like towing or extending a mooring line. If you're jonesing to tie in an eye splice.. just put it on one end. Leave the other end plain (and whipped, of course).

Who is kidding whom? Chafe. Loose shackles. Old splices with loose thimbles are a menace - very sharp.

Either the carrick bend or figure-8 (see post for modified version - http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/search?q=splice+knot) are reasonable choices and are 85-90% strength knots.

Have you EVER seen a mountain climber splice a rope, though they are willing to fly through the air on one? Better yet, show me a documented case of a modern UIAA approved climbing rope failure that was not over a sharp edge. Ropes are quite dependable until damaged. Knots are quite dependable and the rope is un-modified.

My last set of dock lines lasted 15 years, due to careful chafe protection. I just chafed a new line 60% of the way through in 2 weeks because somehow it got looped over a rusty nail. I hate people who put nails in pilings - sooner of later they do damage to rope or gelcoat, and there are better ways. Stupid. Every gel-coat ding I have ever suffered was from a stupid piling add-on that someone though was useful, but did not think-through. The nail is gone now!

Ross · Dec 24, 2009

Re: Neither splices nor knots fail in practice on boats this size.

Braid and three strand joined is harnessing an ox and a horse to the same plow. They will both work but they work better alone than together. The carrick bend is strong and reliable but bulky.

Edited because of fat stubby fingers.

How to attach more rode?

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Attachments

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.