What grade VHF Antenna Coaxial Cable was used in 2000 Hunter 340

[Don S/V ILLusion]

These two statements are at odds. If there was no compromise made, then you would have installed Heliax with N connectors. Even LMR400 would have been less of a compromise than 213.

Hexiax cable defeats the purpose of a light weight carbon fiber mast. And LMR 400 has an aluminum jacket over a foam dielectric, both problematic in a marine environment.

Coastal sailing is probably where the best performance is required. Offshore, we rarely see anything within VHF contact range, …
Mark

we sail predominantly in the Caribbean. VHF is the most effective and dependable mode.

 

[colemj]

Hexiax cable defeats the purpose of a light weight carbon fiber mast. And LMR 400 has an aluminum jacket over a foam dielectric, both problematic in a marine environment.


we sail predominantly in the Caribbean. VHF is the most effective and dependable mode.

So you made compromises based on the constraints of your boat? In other words you first determined the physical constraints and environment of the installation, then chose the least lossy coax that best conformed to these limitations?

1/2" Heliax and RG213 weigh exactly the same (and twice as much as LMR400).

Caribbean is predominantly coastal sailing. No different than the OP.

I'm a bit confused. I suggested the OP consider RG213 instead of LMR400. You asserted that no compromises should be made in signal loss for safety reasons. Then you mention that you made compromises and use 213 for the exact reasons I suggested the OP consider it over LMR400.

Mark

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Sigh.

 

[BAD ORCA]

I try to sail using the concept.
Keep It Simple Sailor.

• Radio - with a mic at radio
• Remote mic for the cockpit with attached wire. Provided by Radio manufacture
• Antenna wire. LMR400. purchased from a Ham Radio Store due to the lowest signal loss and the best pricing (Ham Radio Outlet shows it online at $1.64/ft). I ran the wire from the radio to the mast antenna. Self-installed the DIY terminations. You can get wires with preinstalled terminations, but fishing the wire through the mast is more difficult.
• VHF Antena

The Antenna wire runs from the radio to the top of the mast. The Remote Mic uses its own wire and runs from the cockpit to the radio. This is not an antenna wire. The remote mic has all the functions of the radio in your hand. Your radio of choice has a mic at the radio. This helps when there is a storm raging over the cockpit, and you need to be able to be heard and hear what is being said.

I dont want to hijack this thread so please forgive....but how often do you drop your mast? Did you plan a very simple route for the LMR-400 from mast to radio? Im about to pull my mast and replace the VHF antennae and cable with LMR-400. I cant decide if i want to put in a quick disconnect at bottom of mast because wire routing will be slightly complicated. Dont plan to drop mast very often though and am wondering how much of a performance hit the radio will take if i put in a quick disconnect -vs- one continuous wire run?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I dont want to hijack this thread so please forgive....but how often do you drop your mast? Did you plan a very simple route for the LMR-400 from mast to radio? Im about to pull my mast and replace the VHF antennae and cable with LMR-400. I cant decide if i want to put in a quick disconnect at bottom of mast because wire routing will be slightly complicated. Dont plan to drop mast very often though and am wondering how much of a performance hit the radio will take if i put in a quick disconnect -vs- one continuous wire run?

There is no such thing as a “quick disconnect” for coax cable. Good quality PL259s and a barrel connector have virtually no insertion loss and are not just the best way but the only way to provide for a means of stepping the mast. As with all connections on all wiring, waterproofing is essential.

 

[BAD ORCA]

There is no such thing as a “quick disconnect” for coax cable. Good quality PL259s and a barrel connector have virtually no insertion loss and are not just the best way but the only way to provide for a means of stepping the mast. As with all connections on all wiring, waterproofing is essential.

I was thinking of adding one of these at mast base.

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-536-4

 

[jssailem]

Regarding my mast, I do not expect to drop it again. I dropped it due to failure of the spreaders and the desire to upgrade the running rigging and electrical systems, plus have the standing rigging and all gear on the mast replaced or serviced.

The age of my boat provides open paths (no internal fiberglass pan) from the mast base (deck stepped) to the Nav Station (radio location). My issue was that there was no access to the wires running through the compression post. I elected to run the wires down the side of the compression post and built a chase for them.


This allowed me to add wire blocks to make the electrical connections.

The Coax antenna cable was run without cutting. I selected the LMR-400 Ultraflex coax for it's flexibility and availability at the Ham Radio store.

https://www.pasternack.com/50-ohm-low-loss-flexible-lmr400uf-tpe-jacket-double-shielded-lmr-400-uf-p.aspx

@Don S/V ILLusion is spot on. Properly installed Coax Connectors cause negligible loss. You need a female on one side and a male on the other, which will reduce that negligible loss by one connection.
Here is the female to use on the wire from the antenna.

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-1035-1-2

Then, use a male connection from the mast base through the boat to the radio.

I prefer the soldered fittings to the screw-on ones. They feel more secure to me.
Silver PL-259 connectors

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I was thinking of adding one of these at mast base.

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-536-4

I have used these consistently for decades with no insertion loss

 

[sailcapt340]

The dxengineering fitting you are showing is the same as I have at the base of my mast as well. Mine is inside the boat above the dinette table, not outside at the base of the mast. I’ve never had an issue with that fitting or reception on my VHF.
.
My challenge, which I had to take a break from this project at the moment, is cutting an access hole in the headliner trough to be able to fish the cable through. I know there are wires up there, where I want to cut into. Just don’t know exactly where and how many. And I don’t like the idea of sending a drill bit into the space and hoping not to hit or tangle up something in there.
After this week, I think maybe an endoscope might be able to see into the area where I want to drill.
I thought a non-auger hole saw could work but after my trial run in my basement, which did not go well at all and walked across the test piece. I know that it will want to walk along the headliner as well before it bites in.
But I’ll get this. And always open to ideas and thoughts.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Great! Thankyou for replies. I also have the LMR400 Ultraflex. My boat has open layout as well but there would still be a couple of tight bends i'd prefer not to force it to cope with. Also plan to drop mast in a year or two for more work so the disconnect at mast base would make things MUCH easier.

 

[BAD ORCA]

I prefer the soldered fittings to the screw-on ones. They feel more secure to me.
Silver PL-259 connectors

Much thanks, great info. My new antennae came with a nice Amphenol silver solder fitting. I bought a few more identical ones, couple as a backup and one for the VHF in. Looks like they will come in handy when i add the disconnect at mast base.

 

[BAD ORCA]

The dxengineering fitting you are showing is the same as I have at the base of my mast as well. Mine is inside the boat above the dinette table, not outside at the base of the mast. I’ve never had an issue with that fitting or reception on my VHF.
.View attachment 228784
My challenge, which I had to take a break from this project at the moment, is cutting an access hole in the headliner trough to be able to fish the cable through. I know there are wires up there, where I want to cut into. Just don’t know exactly where and how many. And I don’t like the idea of sending a drill bit into the space and hoping not to hit or tangle up something in there.
After this week, I think maybe an endoscope might be able to see into the area where I want to drill.
I thought a non-auger hole saw could work but after my trial run in my basement, which did not go well at all and walked across the test piece. I know that it will want to walk along the headliner as well before it bites in.
But I’ll get this. And always open to ideas and thoughts.

OOF! I'm little luckier. My mast is keel stepped so just have to run the new cable down the mast.

Forsner bits work really well on fiberglass but dont stay sharp long. They are nice in this regard because there is no drill bit that goes in deeper than the hole saw, but require a fairly flat surface.

 

[sailcapt340]

I have considered my forstner bits because they do stay in place, but the center will enter the space first and run around in there before the hole is cut. I had to put this project on pause for a while, but I still have my shop I escape to. So I made up a template and used a round head carving bit on a dremel tool.
I can control the depth of the cut and basically router out an area without breaking through into the open space above. Then carefully use an exacto knife to open up a small hole or cut. From that I think I should be able to see if there are any wires in the way before widening the hole. In theory and in my shop this works. Albeit on a softer material than my headliner. And I’ll need better bits. I will let you know though, if I go with this idea or another’s method. So keep the ideas coming.

 

[colemj]

I was thinking of adding one of these at mast base.

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-536-4

Those won't cause any losses at all, but why use them? Just use opposite gender connectors on each side of the break. For example, a PL-259 on the cable from the mast and a SO-259 on the cable going to the radio.

Mark

 

[BAD ORCA]

I have considered my forstner bits because they do stay in place, but the center will enter the space first and run around in there before the hole is cut. I had to put this project on pause for a while, but I still have my shop I escape to. So I made up a template and used a round head carving bit on a dremel tool.
I can control the depth of the cut and basically router out an area without breaking through into the open space above. Then carefully use an exacto knife to open up a small hole or cut. From that I think I should be able to see if there are any wires in the way before widening the hole. In theory and in my shop this works. Albeit on a softer material than my headliner. And I’ll need better bits. I will let you know though, if I go with this idea or another’s method. So keep the ideas coming.

Ha! Dremel was my second idea.

You can use a hole saw without the pilot bit. You just have to cut a hole the diameter of the hole saw into 1/2" plywood and use that as a guide for the hole saw instead. It does need to be secured (the plywood guide) with clamps or good double stick tape though so requires a good flat surface. Looks like that may not work in your case though.

 

[jssailem]

You can use a hole saw without the pilot bit. You just have to cut a hole the diameter of the hole saw into 1/2" plywood and use that as a guide for the hole saw instead. It does need to be secured (the plywood guide) with clamps or good double stick tape though so requires a good flat surface.

An idea that may work, based on what Bad Orca provided.

Use a piece of wood (with the guide hole cut into it) that can be held in place by a helper. When you start the hole in the fiberglass, run the drill in reverse. This will allow the bit to scrape the surface without grabbing and jumping.

 

[sailcapt340]

Thought you would be interested in knowing…..I got my messenger wire(s) through! After many tries, too numerous to count, I finally snaked a stiff flat cable snake into the trough and out of the mast base access in the headliner.
I was prepared this morning to cut into headliner at the midpoint area, but not really looking forward to cutting the 1/2” thick fiberglass. So I tried once again and it worked. Oh happy days!
Now I have 4 separate messenger lines in place and just hanging there. 1 stiff wire line, 1 flexible wire line and 2 separate waxed twine lines. Not taking any chances here.
From what I can feel as I pull the lines back and forth there should be enough space to get the LMR400 Ultra Flex coax through the trough. There is no doubt it has to be ultra flex to get this job completed.
While I had to pause the job, due to a death in the family, I made a molding piece to hold the coax along the wall and down into the hanging closet below. Helped me both mentally and aesthetically.
Now I’ll order my coax and connectors.
So for anyone who wants to attempt this job (at least on a Hunter 340) are a few photos.


What I’ll end up doing is entering behind this back wall of the hanging closet. Behind that wall is my galvanic isolator and AC and Bilge thru hulls.
And follow along to the back wall of the navigation station.

And mounting my VHF below the Battery Monitor and AC Control.

That‘s the plan, should work.
As far as mounting a Remote Mic at the pedestal. Behind the back wall of the hanging closet is a PVC Tube wire chase that runs to to starboard side rear access area. I’ve been it that a few times over the years and I know there is a messenger wire waiting for me. I left 2 in there years ago just in case.
I’ll run the wire through that and up into the pedestal.
Still a good amount of work to be done, but I can let the 15 degree weather pass by and then get back in there later.
Thank you all for your help and ideas, all greatly appreciated.

 

[kappykaplan]

I was prepared this morning to cut into headliner at the midpoint area, but not really looking forward to cutting the 1/2” thick fiberglass. So I tried once again and it worked. Oh happy days!

If at first you don't succeed, . . . Well done, sailcapt340!

 

[jssailem]

Well done, @sailcapt340!

 

[BAD ORCA]

Oh the joy of re-wiring a sailboat. Good to see you managed to get the wires through. I asked the yard where im currently hauled out at what their secret was for running new wires in tough situations like these. Their reply was you try about 150 times and then you finally get lucky!

That LMR-400 is a beast to pull. I have the ultra flex aand the outer layer soft'ish rubber which makes it tough to pull. I ended up taping the end heavily and wiping it with PTFE spray. Seemed to help getting it through the conduit.