I sail alone and I’m fairly new at this. I have a Catalina 27 with a roller furler. I don’t use my main much because I’m not very comfortable getting it down in wind. I’ve never had a problem I just worry about having one of the wind really picks up. However my comfort is growing. Now I’m thinking I should get lazy jacks not because of convenience but it allows me to drop the main quickly and safely. I saw a guy with 2 leg lazy jacks and I like the simplicity. I also saw 3 and 4 leg lazy jacks and they clearly collect the sail better. Not sure which to get ? Thoughts?
Lazy Jacks ?
- Thread starter BTC1984
- Start date
I have two on my 31. Cable comes down from the upper part of the mast to a small block. Jack line runs up from the forward end of the boom through the block and back down to the boom just behind the aft turning block for the mid mounted mainsheet. See the pics. Works sufficiently. You do have to gather the tail end of the sail when it's dropped but that does not seem to be a problem.
I have 3 on my O’Day 322 and in conjunction with my Mack Pack, it works well for dropping the main sail.
Not great photos, but you get the idea. On the bottom photo, I was coming in from a sail, dropped the main into the Mack Pack and had it pretty much all put to bed before I got back to the marina.
If anything, adding a 4th leg (or spacing my 3 legs out a bit more) would help keep the tail end of the sail on the boom. Everything else pretty much falls in place.
Greg
Not great photos, but you get the idea. On the bottom photo, I was coming in from a sail, dropped the main into the Mack Pack and had it pretty much all put to bed before I got back to the marina.
If anything, adding a 4th leg (or spacing my 3 legs out a bit more) would help keep the tail end of the sail on the boom. Everything else pretty much falls in place.
Greg
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,076
I would lean to a 3 leg LazyJack system for your size boat. That puts 3 points on the boom to capture the sail foot.
I would urge you to practice raising and lowering the sail multiple times at your dock with little or no wind.
Get familiar with the way the halyards work or snag so you are not out discovering this in a sudden wind squall.
When I was learning to sail, the trainer had us spend several hours rigging and unrigging the boat and sails. By the end of the day we were confident that we could do it in the dark (as one of my classmates announced). Just to confirm our brashness, the former drill instructor decided that would be a good test that needed passing prior to confirmation of our training.
It turned out to be a life lesson.
I would urge you to practice raising and lowering the sail multiple times at your dock with little or no wind.
Get familiar with the way the halyards work or snag so you are not out discovering this in a sudden wind squall.
When I was learning to sail, the trainer had us spend several hours rigging and unrigging the boat and sails. By the end of the day we were confident that we could do it in the dark (as one of my classmates announced). Just to confirm our brashness, the former drill instructor decided that would be a good test that needed passing prior to confirmation of our training.
It turned out to be a life lesson.
My main has a Dutchman system that the PO installed. I had never heard of it before. I had lazy jacks on my previous boat. I sure like the way the Dutchman contains the sail when I drop it. And no snagging the battens on the way up. Handy when single handing, trying to keep the boat into the wind while raising the sail. It's a non-issue.
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I recommend practicing for a season before making the switch. There's a difference between wanting lazy jacks for convenience vs. not being able to lower what is actually a relatively manageable mainsail due to inexperience. Give yourself room to get better, because you will.
Lazy jacks aren't as awesome as you might think they are. I have them and found that they basically hold the sail on the boom in one big loose mess. That mess can fall off a bit. I use them when I know I'll be in heavy conditions and do not want to go on deck to flake the sail. When I get back to the dock I pull the sail up and then flake it. It actually creates a bit more work but it can be useful as a safety item
Lazy Jack Trick
Many folks complain about full battens getting caught up when raising the mainsail. They then spend a lot of time moving BOTH sides of the lazy jacks to the mast.
We developed an easier way with our lazy jacks.
We have a small cleat on the forward starboard side of the boom. When we put the halyard on the headboard, we move ONLY the starboard side of the lazy jacks forward and snug them under the forward side of the horn of this cleat.
Then, when we raise the mainsail, instead of going exactly head to wind, we bear off a tad to starboard so the wind is coming from the port side of the bow.
We then raise the mainsail and it doesn't get hooked on the lazy jacks even though the port side jacks are still there.
Been working for +25 years.
Yes, we have to go forward again to unhook the starboard lazy jack for dousing the sail if I forget to do it right when the main is raised, but there's never any hurry. The drill is: after the main is raised, I unhook that starboard lazy jack, so they're both ready to go when we drop the sails at the end of the day.
So, for those of you with lazy jacks, consider doing only one side.
Your boat, your choice.
Personally I am one of those that do not like the lazy jacks for the reasons cited. . I don't like having to go forward and move them, but if they are set up right this is minimized. I also don't like putting up with the battens snagging on them. Stu gave some great pointers on it. I have used Lazy Jacks for over 20 years on my current boat. I don't have to go forward for anything and I sail mostly solo. When I'm done, I tug the back of the leech to fair it up and put the cover on it. But having said that, first make sure the sail goes up and down well, if not there is an issue, dirty track, damages slugs, unfair attachments etc. Your basic choices are, nothing, lazy jacks with or with out a pack or roller main, which would be overkill on a boat that size. Look at all of the types and see what fits your budget and is right for you. Good Luck.
Before I built my Pap-Pac, I used a set of EZJax that were on my boat when I got her. With them, they are designed to be in the stowed position along side the boom except for the few minutes when the sail is being dropped and the sail ties put on. Once the sail is secured to the boom, they are stowed. This is nice because then you use a normal sail cover that does not need to be modified for the jacks.
Here is a drawing I made for the C30 group. You would want to make the lines a little shorter for your C27 but otherwise it would be the same. The construction is just 1/4" line, some SS welded rings or similar, a couple of cheek blocks and a couple of cleats.
Here is a drawing I made for the C30 group. You would want to make the lines a little shorter for your C27 but otherwise it would be the same. The construction is just 1/4" line, some SS welded rings or similar, a couple of cheek blocks and a couple of cleats.
I guess I really mis-spoke, I meant to say Dutchman, that is what I have used for about 20 years and I love them. I left that off the options list as well,, guess I was tired. In the end we have to use what bests fits how we do things as well as what we like. I just felt the Dutchman that was already on the boat worked well and never changed it. I did used to have to rotate the topping lift down for the cover to fit but when I replaced the cover I used a couple of zippers and now it is even easier to do. Sailing mostly solo I like to eliminate any extra steps. The KISS option.
Can the average DIY’r install a Dutchman system as a retrofit? I assumed it required some sort of topping lift, lines from that down through holes in the sail, and tied to the boom or somewhere?
I have been using Lazy Jacks and the integrated Mack Pack since I installed it my first season with Tally Ho. I sail single-handed most of the time, and I do not have a problem getting the sail up through the battens. I use a battery-powered right angle drill with a winch bit to crank the sail up (with one hand) and move the boom back and forth with the other hand to keep the sail centered as it goes up.
Greg
Sounds like the Dutchman is not a DIY project. Unless maybe you have the skills:
dutchmar.com
Installation - Dutchmar
The Dutchman Sailflaking System is installed on your sail by a sailmaker The system must be installed on your sail carefully. It not an easy or simple job to do well. See our SailmakerDirectory for a list of lofts experienced in the installation of Dutchman Systems. A System Manual B System...
dutchmar.com
I will address a couple of the posts. First I would say that my disdain for Lazy Jacks came from sailing larger catamarans, 45-75 footers. I like Stu's tip on moving the boom back and forth but you can't do that when the boom is about 8' behind you unless you have crew, I don't always so use the shake and bake and timing method I guess you would call it and it can be frustrating.
Indy talked about sailing for a year before doing anything and I agree with that, I tell that to everybody, you don't really know what you want or what will work for you until you have done it a few times.
I think the spacing of the LJ's are the most important and it takes a few tries to get it at it's best.
As for are the Dutchman a DIY project, I believe it can as there is not sewing so you don't need a machine. You do have to install probably 5 rings on the sail much like a reefing line hole. The topping lift can be either a solid single line, or an endless loop going through a pulley at the top and bottom, with a cam cleat at the bottom for adjust-ability if you need them but I rarely use it. You normally do this to avoid putting slits and zippers in the main sail cover. I have the slits with a zipper and once the vertical lines are set you never need to do anything with the topping lift. So there is some one time set up. The bottom disk that holds the bottom of the line screws through the sail, so no big deal.
Greg, like the drill, faster than I thought they might be.
Just my thoughts, opinions vary.
Indy talked about sailing for a year before doing anything and I agree with that, I tell that to everybody, you don't really know what you want or what will work for you until you have done it a few times.
I think the spacing of the LJ's are the most important and it takes a few tries to get it at it's best.
As for are the Dutchman a DIY project, I believe it can as there is not sewing so you don't need a machine. You do have to install probably 5 rings on the sail much like a reefing line hole. The topping lift can be either a solid single line, or an endless loop going through a pulley at the top and bottom, with a cam cleat at the bottom for adjust-ability if you need them but I rarely use it. You normally do this to avoid putting slits and zippers in the main sail cover. I have the slits with a zipper and once the vertical lines are set you never need to do anything with the topping lift. So there is some one time set up. The bottom disk that holds the bottom of the line screws through the sail, so no big deal.
Greg, like the drill, faster than I thought they might be.
Just my thoughts, opinions vary.
There is a little bit of sewing with a Dutchman system. The tabs are sewn to the foot of the sail, which you could hand sew if you didn't have a sewing machine.
There's a decent amount of work involved. I was quoted around $700 for a loft to modify the sail on my O'Day 25
It sounds like my EZJax solve or eliminate all of your concerns.
- No modification to the sail cover
- Nothing to foul the leach of the sail when hoisting.
- No messing with the boom while hoisting.
- No lines to chafe against the sail while sailing.
- Nothing to interfere with tensioning the outhaul tension.
- Support to the full length of the sail foot.
- Fully captures the excess fabric when reefed if you deploy the Jax before reefing.
I have used lazy jacks for 34 years on two boats. For your size, a three-leg system ought to work fine. That's what I had on my 32. I now have a four-leg system on my 40.5. I have enough line to make them retractable to the mast so that I can have them stowed when sailing (or not) but to be able to use a standard sail cover. I used small low-friction rings this time and they work great.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,076
I installed the EZJax, LazyJacks system, shown by @Hayden Watson on my boat. They work exceedingly well.
A joyful assistant to maintaining a safe sailing experience.
A joyful assistant to maintaining a safe sailing experience.