Catalina 25 - Barrier Coat and Bottom Paint Recommendations

[rcoleman67]

Just picked up new to me 1988 Catalina 25 on a trailer. I'm believe I'm the 4th owner. The PO didn't really understand sailing or boat maintenance and the owner before him was an older lady that either didn't share or he didn't know the questions to ask. We believe the boat has been in freshwater all her life. We don't know the last time the bottom was painted or the type (if any) barrier coat that was applied. There was apparently some work done on the lower bow, I waS told dock rash. Hopefully, the pictures will help us understand what has been done and the next appropriate steps.

I believe I need to do the following. Please provide recommendations/guidance as appropriate. I plan on doing the work myself.

1) Apply barrier coat
- not sure if there was a barrier coat but from the pictures of the point of the bow I'm assuming the white gelcoat is covered/painted by a light grey coat (barrier ???) and then a darker gray layer (bottom paint ???) . The darker gray layer actually looks like the blue bottom hull color further along the boat. The exterior of the boat (above the waterline and below the waterline look excellent and smooth; obviously above the waterline is smooth like glass but below the waterline it's still smooth).
- do I need to sand down to the white gelcoat looking layer (I would prefer not to damage or harm the existing layers as they look really good but on the other hand I believe I need a barrier coat since the boat is a 1988 and it appears as if nothing has been done since)
- I'm assuming I would sand up to the bottom on the blue stripe below the red boot stripe?
- use a quality epoxy barrier coat and following vendors instructions

2) Apply bottom paint
- use a quality bottom coat and follow vendors instructions

3) Polish the gelcoat above the red boot stripe to the cove stripe below the rub rail.

Sure appreciate any advice/guidance ya'll have. I'm operating in the dark here and appreciate ya'lls knowledge and experience. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Why would you want to remove a perfectly good barrier coat ? ? ? ?

They don't have a limited life expectancy and you'll have one hell of a time trying to "maintain it" whatever that may mean or consist of ? ? ? ? ?

The boat has been on a trailer. What you've got now is a heavy duty bottom for permanent moorage in salt water.

If the barrier coat is in good shape and yours looks to be good , it's there for life. Any blisters ? No ? Then it's done a good job over the years and will continue to do the same job.

Determine what the existing bottom coat is. If it's hard, it will take any bottom paint. If it's soft, time for some research as to whether you want to go hard or soft.

Before you do anything, may I suggest you do some research on boat bottoms. There's a lot to be learned, the work is ass busting, filthy, and expensive. Check this site all the way to West Marine for articles on bottom paints. It would break my heart to hear that you've dug into what looks like a perfectly good barrier coat with the intention of replacing it.

 

[jssailem]

Ok. In my opinion.
The blue stripe looks like original blue gelcoat.
The white area above the blue strip looks like the original white gelcoat.

Beneath the blue strip is the hull the dark grey is the outside fiberglass hull. The gelcoat for this area appears to have been stripped. You would need to paint this dark grey with at least 2 to 3 layers of epoxy barrier coat.

At the bow you can see how the hull was laid up. After spraying the mold with a release agent they applied a thick gelcoat white layer. It is evident on the bow.
Next they sprayed a light grey gelcoat, or a vinyl-ester resin coat. Next they sprayed chopped mat dark grey fiberglas and resin. This formed the base of the hull.

You need to replace these two outer layers. You do that with 2-3 coats of barrier epoxy paint. This barrier coat provides a smooth water proof layer. Then you apply your ablative bottom paint on top of the barrier paint..

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

@rcoleman67 , do I have this labelled correctly ?

If the boat is to be trailered, I would ignore the small section of bare FG which you have exposed and just bottom paint it. If you're a perfectionist, epoxy it.

 

[dlochner]

@rcoleman67 , do I have this labelled correctly ?

View attachment 226548

If the boat is to be trailered, I would ignore the small section of bare FG which you have exposed and just bottom paint it. If you're a perfectionist, epoxy it.

If the boat was in freshwater the brown bottom paint is probably VC17. To test, take some solvent, acetone or denatured alcohol and wipe it on the paint, VC 17 will become copper colored, because is it powdered copper suspended in a teflon like film. The good news it is a very low maintenance paint and I wouldn't worry about it. The bad news if the boat is moored in saltwater VC17 is useless, it is a freshwater only paint.

The gray area is likely barrier coat. No need to remove it unless there are lots of blisters on the hull.

The white area is probably gelcoat. You mentioned there was some fiberglass or gelcoat work done on the bow, that would explain the different colors. The white is the new gelcoat. There is no need to put barrier coat on it, but I probably would put a couple of coats because the epoxy barrier coat is tougher and harder than gel coat. The bow will come in contact with all sorts of floating debris and the tougher barrier coat will resist scratches better.

Whatever you decide to do with the white area, bottom paint or barrier coat, it needs to be cleaned with a dewaxer. In order to get gelcoat to cure it must be cut off from any oxygen. Wax is added to the gelcoat to accomplish this. The was floats to the top of the gelcoat and seals it. Once the gelcoat is fully cured the wax only serves the purpose of preventing paint from sticking.

Good luck.

 

[jviss]

Since you are in Clinton, MS, I assume you're putting this in fresh water, no?

 

[dLj]

Just a couple comments after reading through this thread.

1) depending upon the barrier coat system you may wish to use, most recommend 5 coats.

2) barrier coat systems are expected to last 20 years. They are not "forever".

3) if you have no blisters - no real need for a barrier coat.

dj

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

@rcoleman67

As a former Catalina dealer, I recall grey gelcoat was the norm on the Catalina 25 and 22 hulls about that time. Run your hand, over the grey. Is it smooth or bumpy? If bumpy, then it is probably barrier coat. However,, there were some of those boats that developed pit blisters due to defective grey gelcoat. Frank Butler was surprised about defective gel coat when I told him.

pictures can tell you a lot but I suggest a local yard look if you are not sure. When you respond back, please get my attention.
Be careful unloading and loading onto the trailer. I have seen the bow being damaged by the support trailer bow roller Aloso make sure the swing keel
Is winched up loadin/unloading fro trailer. When on the trailer make sure the swing keel is down on the keel tray

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

2) barrier coat systems are expected to last 20 years. They are not "forever".

If this be the case, how do you know when it is time to replace the barrier ?

I was 23 years younger when the boat was two years old and I removed the bottom coat and scuffed the hull sufficiently before applying the six coats of epoxy (Interlux 2000 required 5 but I went one further). It was the worst near death experience I've ever encountered. And I didn't have to go through an old barrier coat. To do it today based on an unsubstantiated estimate of of 20 years ? Not going to happen.

Can you give me some insight as to how ? the epoxy will fail, particularly when it's in fresh water ?

 

[dLj]

If this be the case, how do you know when it is time to replace the barrier ?

I was 23 years younger when the boat was two years old and I removed the bottom coat and scuffed the hull sufficiently before applying the six coats of epoxy (Interlux 2000 required 5 but I went one further). It was the worst near death experience I've ever encountered. And I didn't have to go through an old barrier coat. To do it today based on an unsubstantiated estimate of of 20 years ? Not going to happen.

Can you give me some insight as to how ? the epoxy will fail, particularly when it's in fresh water ?

Easy to know - you get blisters. I'm not saying in 20 years you are going to have a problem - but if you read all the documentation provided by manufacturers of barrier coats - they will tell you 20 years.

Near death? Seriously? Why? did the boat fall on you? "Unsubstantiated"???? I'm not even going down that rabbit hole. How about you show me documented evidence that "it's forever".... the truth is - NOTHING is forever....

Insight into how - simple - it's called permeability. What causes blisters? - look it up. While the permeability of epoxy is very low, which is why it makes an excellent barrier coat - it is not 0.

dj

 

[jviss]

One shouldn't get so worked up about blisters. For a boat that's spent a lot of its time on a trailer, and will probably continue to do so, it's not a concern.

Here's an interesting thread on this topic:

Fiberglass Blister Myths?

 

[dLj]

One shouldn't get so worked up about blisters. For a boat that's spent a lot of its time on a trailer, and will probably continue to do so, it's not a concern.

Here's an interesting thread on this topic:

Fiberglass Blister Myths?

I can't agree more! It's really not as big a deal as everyone seems to imply. Here's one quote from that link that may keep some up at night...

"Number 3. This is the one occurring frequently and which is the one most of us have seen evidence of and which is the topic of this article.
Let's examine the procedure. Water migrates through the gelcoat. This takes time. The speed depends on the thickness and or the porosity of the gelcoat. In fresh water, the effect can be quicker because fresh water is thinner and lighter than salt water."

Bold print was put in by me....

My boat was built in 1984. It underwent a major refit in 2000 when the previous owner bought the boat from the boatyard that built it originally. The previous owner was really good at keeping all his work/maintenance records so I have the documentation to know indeed it was done. In 2000 the bottom was barrier coated. I bought the boat in 2020 - 20 years after that barrier coat was applied. I hauled each year for general maintenance. In 2022, December, I hauled it out for a major refit to address several things, like putting in new thru-hulls (they were original from 1984). Low and behold, in several areas of the hull - I had very small incipient blisters. I debated what would be best to do, but as I expect to have this boat until I no longer sail, I decided to address them. I probably didn't need to, but what the heck, there she was, and I didn't want to deal with this problem later with greater blistering. Plus, one day either myself or my children will sell this boat. No need to compromise that...People do get their panties in a wad about gel coat blisters...

So I had the hull soda blasted. All of the very small blisters were opened up, and filled with epoxy filler. I then had 5 layers of new epoxy barrier coat put on. That original barrier coat lasted 22 years. I expect this new barrier coat to last at least that long. It would suck if it doesn't... But hey, time will tell.

dj

 

[rcoleman67]

@jviss - I live in Clinton, MS but will be keeping her on the MS gulf coast. She's in my yard currently was hoping I could learn enough to do the repairs to get her seaworthy - barrier coat (if need be), bottom paint, repair standing rigging if necessary, replace running rigging (will all need replacing), she's gonna need a VHF radio and antenna, I'm transferring a Humminbird Helix 10 from my bass boat to her as a chartplotter (will need to install transducer most likely thru hull), replace the to-hull fittings with thru-fittings, clean and polish the gelcoat above the waterline and on the deck, install bilge pumps, install a bimini, install shore power, install a solar charger, replace two batteries, install a battery charger, replace the exterior/interior cushions, replace/clean the water tank, etc. I've owned a boat all my life, just been Rangers and Skeeters as I bass fish. Just getting into sailing so it's a totally different world between freshwater and saltwater and all the eqiupment...

 

[rcoleman67]

Thanks all, really wanting to learn to sail and teach/mentor my four daughters as well. We'll only sailed a tiny bit but they seemed to enjoy it so much more than accompanying me on my bass fishing and bow hunting trips!

Definitely way outta my comfort zone here but like working on boats and maintaining them to the upmost. My 2008 Skeeter (my wife wants me to sell because I got this boat) is so clean you could eat off her. Want to "spruce" up this 1988 so it's in the same shape.

So, I'm a little confused - is the consensus don't touch the barrier coat or should I replace that at this point? I'm not sure what type of barrier coating it is, but I'm told the boat spent most of it's life in Indiana which would mean it was a fresh water boat. I'm moving it into saltwater, so won't I need to replace the existing barrier coating even if it's in fairly decent shape?

I realize it's one hell of a nightmare job to remove the bottem paint and barrier coating but I really don't have an option if I want to sail her in salt water, correct?

 

[dLj]

Thanks all, really wanting to learn to sail and teach/mentor my four daughters as well. We'll only sailed a tiny bit but they seemed to enjoy it so much more than accompanying me on my bass fishing and bow hunting trips!

Definitely way outta my comfort zone here but like working on boats and maintaining them to the upmost. My 2008 Skeeter (my wife wants me to sell because I got this boat) is so clean you could eat off her. Want to "spruce" up this 1988 so it's in the same shape.

So, I'm a little confused - is the consensus don't touch the barrier coat or should I replace that at this point? I'm not sure what type of barrier coating it is, but I'm told the boat spent most of it's life in Indiana which would mean it was a fresh water boat. I'm moving it into saltwater, so won't I need to replace the existing barrier coating even if it's in fairly decent shape?

I realize it's one hell of a nightmare job to remove the bottem paint and barrier coating but I really don't have an option if I want to sail her in salt water, correct?

Are you leaving this boat in the water or are you keeping it on the trailer and putting it in the water when you are going to use it?

If you are leaving it on the trailer, don't worry about about a barrier coat.

If you are going to keep it in the water, you may wish to put on a barrier coat if you have areas where one does not exist - if there are areas where there is no gel coat or barrier coat - exposed base fiber glass.

I didn't see any blisters on any of your photos. In any case, you don't remove the original barrier coat. If it's not flaking off, you just coat over it for a foot or so from the area where it doesn't exist over the area where it does exist.

The real reason people put on barrier coats is if the original gel coat (or barrier coat) is allowing blisters to form. It's a remediation - not a necessity. Well applied gel coat does the same thing.

All that gel coat and epoxy barrier coat do is keep water from penetrating the fiber glass hull causing blisters. None of your photos are showing blisters. It's hard to tell if you have any exposed base fiber glass from your photos. If you do, those areas you would do well to put on a barrier coat in those areas. No exposed base fiber glass? Just paint the boat and go sail.

dj

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I'm moving it into saltwater, so won't I need to replace the existing barrier coating even if it's in fairly decent shape?

I'm an Interlux guy and I'm not aware of any bottom coats being suited for either salt or fresh. One product does both. If you've got a good barrier coat, you can't do any better than that.

If your boat is going to spend most of its time on the trailer, I don't think you'd need a barrier coat as the necessary osmosis is a long process over several years.

 

[rcoleman67]

Thanks all. I'm planning on leaving the boat in the water mostly. Probably 9 - 10 months a year. If I'm forced to take her out due to a storm or need to haul her out to work on her the trailer is an option.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

but if you read all the documentation provided by manufacturers of barrier coats - they will tell you 20 years.

Not a word anywhere with Interprotect 2000E about life expectancy. Maybe other products offer an opinion about life expectancy for "sales purposes".

Easy to know - you get blisters.

Getting closer to a better indicator of when to replace an epoxy coat. If you've had it on for 23 years as I have, without a sign of blisters, you're not going to replace the barrier coat just because it's "blowing in the wind" that barrier coats only last 20 years and that I MIGHT get blisters. Check out the life expectancy of barrier coats on Google and you'll find the usual selection of local whackos who claim barrier coats are only good for as little as 10 year.

We haven't a clue as to what the old barrier coat may be doing but if there are no blisters, you're not replacing the coat.

Near death? Seriously? Why? did the boat fall on you?

Obviously, you've never had the pleasure or you're an accomplished contortionist. After spending days bent over at the waist, sanding the bottom, I had serious doubts that I would ever stand up again. Sanding the underside was worse than my mother-in-laws plum pudding.

How about you show me documented evidence that "it's forever".... the truth is - NOTHING is forever....

Relative to the life of the boat, the barrier coat is "good for the life of the boat".

 

[dLj]

Not a word anywhere with Interprotect 2000E about life expectancy. Maybe other products offer an opinion about life expectancy for "sales purposes".

You really must have a lot more time on your hands than I do. When I did the barrier coat – Interprotect 2000E – they gave me a document stating a properly applied barrier coat using their product should expect a 20 year lifetime. I doubt I still have that document. And I'm not going to go look for it even if I do still have it. So you can take this for whatever you'd like. More internet blather or however you'd like... I really couldn't care less.

Getting closer to a better indicator of when to replace an epoxy coat. If you've had it on for 23 years as I have, without a sign of blisters, you're not going to replace the barrier coat just because it's "blowing in the wind" that barrier coats only last 20 years and that I MIGHT get blisters. Check out the life expectancy of barrier coats on Google and you'll find the usual selection of local whackos who claim barrier coats are only good for as little as 10 year.

I find that the internet is filled with blather and garbage.

An observation: All of your wordings are surrounding the term “failed” as if there has been some deterioration mechanism taking place. Now, that can be the case, but it's not necessarily the case. You can get damage, you can be sanding down the surface, lots of options. But barrier coat typically resides below the bottom paint. Meaning, the bottom paint is actually protecting the barrier coat from mechanical damages typically.

Without mechanically related damages, you are actually looking at the effects of permeability. This is the most common cause of blisters forming. It is not a “failure” of the coating – it is a natural process that happens over time. It is always happening – you can't stop it. Now, if blisters form or don't form, now that is a very complicated chain of events.

We haven't a clue as to what the old barrier coat may be doing but if there are no blisters, you're not replacing the coat.

You don't typically replace a barrier coat. You prep the surface, remove damaged areas if needed, and you re-coat it.

Obviously, you've never had the pleasure or you're an accomplished contortionist. After spending days bent over at the waist, sanding the bottom, I had serious doubts that I would ever stand up again. Sanding the underside was worse than my mother-in-laws plum pudding.

Good grief, sometimes you just emit such blather that it's hard to know where to even begin to respond to such bullsh!t...

I used to professionally rebuild boat hulls.... I have no idea how many “bottom jobs” I've done...

I just sanded the entire hull on my boat.... Let's see, I believe you have a Hunter 310. I have a Belliure 41. Do the math. The square footage difference in the hulls between our two boats is notable....

Relative to the life of the boat, the barrier coat is "good for the life of the boat".

What is the lifespan of fiberglass boats? I don't think any one knows yet. But we do know 50, 60 years is easily achieved. I prefer more realistic statements, not hyperbole.

dj

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Good grief, sometimes you just emit such blather that it's hard to know where to even begin to respond to such bullsh!t...

Don't believe me ? I'll send you some of her plum pudding and THEN we'll see who speaks in blatherous tongues.

I just sanded the entire hull on my boat.... Let's see, I believe you have a Hunter 310. I have a Belliure 41.

Depends on what you intended to achieve. Scuffing the surface of old hard bottom paint. OR removing the previous layers of bottom paint AND removing the gloss from the factory applied gel coat.

Don't know, don't care. It's too hot here at 28° C in my old office and the parrot is none too pleased either with her shrill squawking. Got to see if there's anything more interesting on TV in the air conditioned part of the house.