My New Boat - A Tartan 3800

[jviss]

If you need a copy of anything let me know. I must say the Tartan manual obviously is written to cover this boat recognizing that its possible that no two were built exactly the same.

Thanks for the offer, we should compare what we each have. Mine are all on the boat, unfortunately.

The Tartan manual is riddled with errors! It seems to be a copy and paste edit job, and can't be relied upon.

One very useful aspect, though, is the standing rigging dimensions chart and some of the running rigging diagrams. My previous owner had abandoned the single line reefing and I restored it with the help of that diagram. I had to source the two internal blocks in the boom - I don't even know what they are called shuttle blocks - and they were very tough to find. I finally got them from a supplier in the UK. I made my own diagram to determine how much line to buy, and it came out so close I almost didn't make it!

See:
Single Line Reefing, Tartan 3800

I have made some sketches of other things that aren't well documented, and I still don't have an accurate wiring schematic. But these will all be different, unique to each boat.

 

[jviss]

Your boat's colors are the same as mine. My boat was originally white, though (I think). The Awlgrip is failing a the top edge of the transom, and I really need to strip and varnish the toe rail, but haven't been able to do it, and can't find a local person to undertake the job. Varnish work is expensive around here.

I painted the inside of the ventilation cowls, and that paint is flaking off now, too. I wish I knew a good method of painting stainless steel.

 

[Sean K]

Correction, I have two 48 St and three #32 winches, somehow it slipped my memory so I looked it up. Two of my 32's were converted to ST, one still is not. The conversion is a simple synthetic add on piece that's not very impressive. I'll sail it for awhile then decide if I want to make any changes.

I hear good things about Rocna, I'd like to get the next size up if I don't add a Windlass with 100% chain rode. the 44lb one is heavy but with a chain-rope rode I may have to go that way. I've spent many a night worrying in my sleep about the anchor and would rather not do that, anchor watch on or not. Right now I feel like I need the exercise of pulling up the anchor, but I'm sure that will quickly change .

 

[jviss]

I won't live without a windlass! And, I really like all chain, 'though I only have 90' of chain now, backed up with about 150' of twelve plait.

Yes, you probably have the same winches as me, except mine are all self tailing, I think! . It's funny how one can't remember details at times.

You are mistaken about "the conversion," assuming you have the Harken winches. There's a lot to the ST feature, and the lower jaw is integral to the drum, so a conversion would likely cost more than just buying the ST winch! Here's the manual:

Two Speed Self-Tailing Winch32.2st

 

[Sean K]

I'm still confused about the plumbing, from fresh water to bilge pumps, it's all not what I'm used to.

The forward fresh water tank, does it flow to the larger Port tank or does it flow to one of the valves under the sink directly (there's two ball valves under the sink). How does filling the bow tank effect balance under power or sail? Do you drain this tank first or last, if both are filled before you depart, or do they drain automatically from bow to mid-ship?
Then I'm confused about sink drainage. Clearly the forward cabin sink drains overboard (but below the water line), can you keep this drain valve open all the time? Then the shower and the bath sink, I think they drain into a sump with a bilge pump, but I can't find one because the sump just forward of the steps has holes in it that drains to the bilge, and then apparently it's pumped out by the bilge pumps, correct?

This all looks like a lot of water in the bilge or through the bilge and pumps don't drain it completely (always some residual water remaining). Seams to rely totally on bilge pumps and flooding could happen very quickly since the bilge area is relatively small. I'm also surprised there is no high-water alarm (to be added).
That and as I said previously the bilge pumps must be switched on or the float valve is not energized, i.e., not wired directly to the batteries.
There are also several glass bowls within the plumbing all with wire strainers inside, all of which are so tight I'm afraid to force them open. I have to believe they are made to open, no?, I do see dirt inside each.

 

[jviss]

Great questions. We should collaborate on writing a user manual!

The water system has been a source of frustration. My first "fix" was when it wouldn't flow, and I found the vents for the two tanks went into a "T" which was behind the back panel in the port forward cabin hanging locker. They vent into the bilge. Mine had fallen down, creasing the vinyl tubing and preventing venting.

The two tanks lead to the the two ball valves under the galley sink. One must keep one only open at a time. My port tank has a gauge, the forward one doesn't. So, I run out the forward tank first, then switch to the port tank with the gauge. Sometimes the pump won't prime after I hit the empty tank, it becomes air-bound. I have to get into the port cockpit locker and loosen a fitting to allow the air out, and then it's fine. I bought an air bleed which I haven't installed yet.

I did install a pressure gauge in the head to help with troubleshooting the water system.

I rebuilt the pressure pump. It wasn't hard, but the kit was expensive. I carry a spare belt for it. I have a new pressure switch which I haven't yet installed.

The plumbing is polybutylene with Parker O Ring/Grab Ring Tube Fittings. These fittings are great! My boat's plumbing had been butchered with an oddball collection of the original fittings, nylon, and brass, with silicone seal applied on the outside of leaking fittings! I took it all apart, and replaced it with the original style fittings and LLDPE tubing. The expansion tank was upside down so it couldn't be properly drained, and there was not ball valve to isolate it. Someone installed a fresh water washdown using nylon tubing and nylon barb fittings. Replaced and fixed it all. I have a lot of spare plumbing fittings on board. I bought them all from US Plastics, a fantastic business.

I don't have the forward cabin sink, I have hanging lockers port and starboard. My galley sink goes direct to a through-hull forward of the engine, next to the engine raw water through-hull. My head sink goes to a through hull under the head shower seat. This one, and several others, go to sea-chests. The main bilge pump is from the bilge near the mast to a pump under the aft cabin bunk. Under the floorboard by the main salon table is a tub that is the shower sump, with is pumped by a pump next to the bilge pump. The clear plastic things are strainers which need frequent cleaning. It's the same strainer as is used for the fresh water strainer under the galley sink.

I can go on....

 

[Sean K]

please do, go on that is. all very interesting and since it's winter I haven't traced all the plumbing since I'm reluctant to activate the pumps and listen for their locations.
I assume the clear bowl strainers just twist off since it looks like there are threads inside. I've never had a boat with such a dirty bilge, and given time this one won't be dirty either. I laughed when I read one of the service reports that basically said to the owner he has to clean the bilge pump strainer and that there was nothing wrong with the pump that he was asked to fix. I"ll use a lot of bilge cleaner and dish detergent to clean this bilge come spring.
BTW, did you change out the stuffing box to a "drip-less" unit?

 

[Sean K]

The forward cabin sink is silly, I'd rather have two hanging lockers. The forward fresh water tank is a good option for travel, nice to have the extra 40 gallons, but that space would also be nice to have for storage, never enough storage space on a boat.

 

[jviss]

The forward cabin sink is silly, I'd rather have two hanging lockers. The forward fresh water tank is a good option for travel, nice to have the extra 40 gallons, but that space would also be nice to have for storage, never enough storage space on a boat.

I would NEVER give up that water capacity! I had a Catalina 36 for 20 years, with 42 gallons of fresh water tankage, and we were constantly in search of fresh water when out cruising. With my kids on board it was every other day. Now, with 80 gallons, I can go quite a while without sweating running out.

p.s. I would add another 40 gallons if there was good place to put it!

 

[Sean K]

Yes, of course, sufficient water is paramount, I just meant more storage is always nice to have.

 

[Sean K]

Well my 1996 Tartan 3800 is now on the hard for the winter. This was my first year with her and I was even more impressed with the way she handled than I thought I would be, and I thought it would be a great boat, so I’m very pleased.
As one would expect with a used boat I had used boat issues, fixed/replace many items, but nothing serious, just normal items that wear out. (Water pumps, bilge pumps, some wiring, new mainsail, etc.). She handles rough water very well, points high and is reasonably fast for a cruiser. Easy to get 7, 8, + knots out of her, single handed.
As a single handed sailor I was never afraid of this boat, although I was careful most of the time. I did learn that 25 knot winds do require reefing of the sails or the lee rail is in the water (actually start reefing at 18 knots). Weather helm is comfortable. The new Max-Prop gives me a strong reverse and folds up well under sail - I recommend it even though it’s expensive.
I’m still chasing a water leak coming out the forward Dorade vent into the forward cabin but it’s not the vent. I now suspect it may be the fitting at the bottom of the baby stay as water does :”run” and difficult to trace back. I also learned that the black water discharge through hull must be closed or water comes in on a hard starboard tack (I don’t discharge overboard anyway). The Owners Manual does tell you this but I had to learn the hard way.

I appreciate all of the comments and recommendation from all of you, thank you.

 

[jviss]

@Sean K how's it going? In the water yet? I launch next week.

 

[Sean K]

@Sean K how's it going? In the water yet? I launch next week.

Great sailing season last year and I hit the water last week. I rebuilt the entire single line reefing system this winter, replacing some and lubricating all the hardware and line within the boom. I’ve read pros and cons about this system but that’s what came with the boat when new. I‘m hoping the system works with my drop-stack cover - haven’t tried it out yet, weather hasn’t cooperated so far.
How was your season last year?

 

[jviss]

Great sailing season last year and I hit the water last week. I rebuilt the entire single line reefing system this winter, replacing some and lubricating all the hardware and line within the boom. I’ve read pros and cons about this system but that’s what came with the boat when new. I‘m hoping the system works with my drop-stack cover - haven’t tried it out yet, weather hasn’t cooperated so far.
How was your season last year?

Hey there, good for you. Last year was a bust, no sailing at all, due to family issues. I should be launched next week.

I re-commissioned the single line reefing system when I got my boat, as it hadn't been used in a while. I wrote it up in this forum. I like it. I can reef from the cockpit, single handed (with the autopilot).

This year I have a lot of work to do, in particular, replace just about all of the engine hoses, coolant and salt water. I think I have most of the hoses on hand, at least all of the molded hoses.

I hate working with hoses, especially removing the old ones. I always end up injuring myself, nothing too serious, just cuts and scrapes and bruises on my hands and forearms. I may buy those protective, cut resistant protective arm sleeves and cut resistant gloves; Home Depot has Milwaukee branded ones.

Before the launch I have to put new zincs on the prop shaft and Maxprop, and grease the Maxprop, and that's it. I paint the bottom every other year, and did that last year.

Of course there's always a million other things to do, but those are the big ones.

 

[Sean K]

I did have one very odd event last year. While in a rough water long distance race, the port lee rail was in the water and I started taking on water into the cabin. After leveling the boat the bilge pumps kept it dry and once back home I searched all over for the problem and couldn’t find any obvious culprit. First looked at the scuppers and hoses, they were fine, then the head and it’s hoses, they were fine too. The best I can figure out was I left both the head Mascerator thru-hull and direct discharge hose thru-hull open (Y valve to holding tank) and surmised that the anti-siphon loops may have been below the water level and water came in that way. After contacting Tartan they pointed out that the owner’s manual says to leave these valves closed at all times unless using those discharge methods. I was unable to repeat the water inflow conditions but I also didn’t have the port toe rail in the water - I use the traveler to keep the boat more level, as I should have done during the race but it was fun challenging the 3800’s balance - it passed but I shouldn’t have pushed it that far over.
Having fun………..

 

[Sean K]

Yes, there’s always those routine items. When replacing my raw water pump impeller I found four of the six blades were missing so I removed the end-caps from the heat exchanger and found them intact (luckily). I also had to fish out the zinc anode and did that while the end caps were off. I order parts directly from Westerbeke and I’m pleased with their service and parts quality ( no “will-fit” for me). Here in the fresh water we use magnesium instead of zinc on our prop-shafts, it’s a more sacrificial metal than zinc which is needed in fresh water. Magnesium would be gone in three weeks in salt water but lasts the full season in fresh. Zinc won’t provide the necessary protection.
Now I’m trying to figure out why I don’t have hot water from two of my four faucets (cold works fine). Either an air blockage or something else - very, very odd. Not looking forward to breaking open the piping under the cabin floors. There is always something going on - it’s a boat!

 

[jviss]

Now I’m trying to figure out why I don’t have hot water from two of my four faucets (cold works fine). Either an air blockage or something else - very, very odd. Not looking forward to breaking open the piping under the cabin floors.

Four hot water faucets? I have only three - shower, head vanity, galley. I guess you have the forward cabin sink?

Which two don't have hot? Is the water there cold, or is it no flow at all?

 

[Sean K]

One more, sorry I could go on and on, my apologies. My manual guage on the port water tank wasn’t working so I took it apart and found the float had deteriorated to the point that it would not rise (float) with the water level. I so “McGivered” it, I removed the old saturated cork and cut a key-chain float in half to replicate the cork shape, installed it and now it works fine. The guage manufacturer would only sell me the whole guage and not the float, but it works perfectly now anyway. Who knows, my fix may work better that theirs.

 

[Sean K]

Four hot water faucets? I have only three - shower, head vanity, galley. I guess you have the forward cabin sink?

Which two don't have hot? Is the water there cold, or is it no flow at all?

Yes, I have the forward vanity sink in the V-berth. The galley sink and the in-head shower do not work, no hot water flow. The head sink and vanity sink do work. All four cold water work fine.

 

[jviss]

Yes, I have the forward vanity sink in the V-berth. The galley sink and the in-head shower do not work, no hot water flow. The head sink and vanity sink do work. All four cold water work fine.

Wow, that's weird. I think on mine they did a lot of the connecting under the removable sole piece just ahead of the galley. But, unfortunately, they didn't install a manifold to which to home-run everything. It's a bit of a pain to diagnose.

I red-did a bunch of my plumbing, it was a mess. I wrote it up in this forum, as I recall. Is still have a little to do. I have a sill cock like the one for my anchor wash hose that I will install inside the port cockpit locker, so I can use a hose there for rinsing things, as when I clean and passivate the stainless, and for small clean-ups. I also have an air vent to install downstream of the pump, and an anti-scaled temp regulating thing as the water gets too hot for safety if the engine has been running an hour or more. Of course, I have all of these parts on board, for years! Just like the 7" chart plotter and pod and shorter binnacle guard that I was going to do right away when I bought the boat.