My New Boat - A Tartan 3800

[jviss]

Interesting, sounds like you’re still very happy with your T3800. I’m thinking of changing to a Max Prop three blade, which prop are you using? Currently I still have the two blade fixed pitch prop (Westerbeke 38B four 37HP). One real benefit of a Tartan is how well they hold their value. That’s why I’m comfortable investing so much into mine.

Hi Sean,

My advice, in general, with new purchases like yours, be they boats, cars, airplanes, houses, etc., is to use them as is, for an entire "cycle," as in season, making lists of issues, upgrades, and so on, and then, once the initial excitement has worn off, make rational, prioritized decisions about what to do.

I only speak from experience of having made mistakes changing things early on.

So, I'll turn off "Dad mode" now, sorry!

Best of luck, and let's stay in touch.

 

[Sean K]

Yes, having made those mistakes several time myself that's what I plan on doing, but some things are just known to need upgrades and repairs, those get done now, I'm sure I'll have another list by the haul out next fall.

One question, I find it odd, having several boats in the past, that the bilge pump only works off of the float switch and not also on a manual switch, that and the breaker switch must be on for even the float switch to function, i.e., the pump is not hooked up directly to the batteries. I'm uncomfortable with this set up and I'll rewire it, is yours the same?

 

[jviss]

Yes, having made those mistakes several time myself that's what I plan on doing, but some things are just known to need upgrades and repairs, those get done now, I'm sure I'll have another list by the haul out next fall.

One question, I find it odd, having several boats in the past, that the bilge pump only works off of the float switch and not also on a manual switch, that and the breaker switch must be on for even the float switch to function, i.e., the pump is not hooked up directly to the batteries. I'm uncomfortable with this set up and I'll rewire it, is yours the same?

I think I may have mentioned previously, these boats were kind of custom made, and Tartan did things different on each boat. It was craft production, not mass production. Also, original purchasers specified things, and they and subsequent owners change things.

My bilge and sump pumps have identical auto/off/manual switch panels, here:

They are wired directly to the house bank.

On my previous boat the wiring was such a mess that I made a new breaker panel and rewired everything, so I knew what was what. On this boat I still don't know where everything goes, which is frustrating.

I have a Freedom 20 Inverter/charger and Link 2000-R with "smart" regulator. My house bank is two 115Ah Trojan deep cycle batteries in parallel. I have an engine start battery kept up with an Incharge echo charger. My 1-2-Both-Off switch is wired per Mainesail's plan (which I came up with before I found his!), and I have a disconnect for the engine battery. There are sense wires and other wires that I still haven't traced out.

One issue with this boat is that it's a pain to get to the batteries, and there's not much height where they are. I'd love to see a pic of your battery compartment.

 

[Sean K]

Wow, you are so right, each of these vessels has it's own characteristics. I'm sure mine is as it came from the factory, the Seller was the original owner and he did nothing to this boat but basic maintenance. For example the mainsail is original (25 years old). This may sound funny but that's exactly what I was looking for as the price properly reflected this and I knew I was going to make improvements. The hull and it's basic parts are Tartan, that's all I needed to know. Yes I had it surveyed, just in case, it came out clean.

Hull 21's batteries are under the aft cabin bed, starboard of the prop-shaft, two relatively new 185 ah in parallel house and one 155Ah engine starting battery. There is no inverter (yet) and the charger is what Tartan installed when new (don't know brand name). I suspect I'll be adding and changing these two respectively. But those are most likely on the next fall list. The batteries are secured in place but without a cover. The charger does all three and I can't find an isolator so that also needs to change. The 1-both-2-off switch, which has it's own breaker is mounted under the bed frame facing forward, so it's easily accessible. I'll need this much battery power since the auto-pilot will be on most of the time (single handed sailing), as will the electronics (chartplotter, VHF w/GPS, AIS, two Raymarine i70s instruments, intermittent radar). I'm adding all these electronics as I plan on using this boat the way it was made to be used, not just day sailing as the original owner use it.

Sorry I'm so long-winded - new boat, I'm excited.

 

[jviss]

No, please write more! I'm thrilled there's another T3800 owner active here.

I am oof the same mind as you, I would have preferred to find an "as delivered" boat, but, as a friend once said, you can't order a used boat.

Are you at a dock or on a mooring?

 

[Sean K]

I'll be at a dock slip with electricity but plan on sailing overnight and sometimes "on the hook". In the lower Lake Michigan area there are few harbors but almost no place to drop anchor. Upper Lake M has some and Lake Huron has many, but that's a two day sail for me. I am setting this boat up for "on the hook" (mooring if available) for my overnight sails. I may have mentioned, I'm about to retire so I'll be spending time on the water.
Do you use your inverter much? A grille off the transom and stove will do me for now, but I'm thinking I may need an inverter for some light use (charging cell phone, Ipad, coffee maker, ect.). Don't want a TV onboard, but maybe a microwave for extended sailing meals. I'm also thinking of upgrading my 50 Amp alternator to 100 Amps so I use my engine less (next season, maybe).
i come from the Northeast and have boated Long Island sound, and Montauk to Maine, other than salt water it's a much better area for boating than lake Michigan. You're blessed with great places to go and so many of them you can spend a lot of time on the water and never see the same place twice. One thing we do have here is good wind most of the time, probably more so than you guys. Something I didn't realize until I got here is the Great Lakes are "snotty-ier" than the ocean, more dangerous and the wave action worse - I'd rather be in a 20' swell than a set of 5' waves here in the great lakes, their close, come from various directions and beat the heck out of you. That and the weather can change very fast without warning.

 

[jviss]

For charging devices I recommend 12V "cigarette lighter" chargers that support the modern quick charging protocols. My favorite ones come from Anker. For marine cig lighter receptacles look to Marinco.

I use the inverter for charging laptops, the toaster, and the hair dryer. The latter two only when the engine is running! You can live without an inverter. I make coffee with a kettle on the range to boil water, then pour it through a filter funnel into an insulated carafe.

If you are going to anchor out, and not be near shore power, you're going to have to do some serious thinking about house batteries and charging systems. I'm seriously considering going to a 400+ Ah LiFePo4 bank, but probably not in the budget for this year. I want to make a bank that will comfortably fit in the shallow space under the aft bunk. I already have a 125A alternator, so I'm good there. Any more would overwhelm the mounting bracket system for the the alternator. I already have the serpentine belt system to drive the alternator.

 

[Rick486]

Thanks, Rick, but that was 4 1/2 years ago.

Ha. ha.....
That's what happens at 0 dark 30 in the AM.....
Well, what I said......

 

[Sean K]

I'm in the aviation business which has serious safety concerns with Lithium batteries (we can't carry them), but they are the batteries of the future. They're light weight, very powerful and best of all hold their power all the way down to zero (others don't). I suggest a deionized water mist fire extinguisher near the battery compartment. A class C will do it but it distroys everything it touches - including those $1,000 batteries (each). You are lucky with the high output alternator, most people I know switching to lithium don't realize they need that high of an output while "out on the water", that and it saves a lot on diesel fuel (run time). When I need batteries I'll consider GEL or ones similar and better than flooded. Which engine do you have, Hull 21 has the Westerbeke 38B Four - 37 HP, I'm hoping a 100 amp alternator will fit - a next year project, maybe.
Now if only the weather would turn nice. Those of us in Chicago are waiting for this Global Warming thing to kick in - 2-3 months of winter is OK, 5 is not.

 

[jviss]

Which engine do you have, Hull 21 has the Westerbeke 38B Four - 37 HP, I'm hoping a 100 amp alternator will fit - a next year project, maybe.

I have the 38B-Four with the JS gear. That gear is the achilles heel of the boat; they fail, and parts are no longer available. JS was a Spanish manufacturer that is out of business. Baby your transmission if you have this!

Mine came with the 125A alternator upgrade, but the original bracket and belt were inadequate. I got the Balmar serpentine belt kit ($450), and also installed a turnbuckle-style adjuster. It now easily handles full output. If you decide to get the serpentine belt kit contact me, as there were issues with the kit that I had to sort out myself.

 

[Sean K]

I too have the JS transmission, so far it's OK. good to know about the alternator and belt install. thanks. What problems have you had with the transmission? Reviewing the maintenance records at the yard that both sold this boat new and maintained it all it's life I see several transmission oil changes (every 4-years), and I don't see any leaking, so I'm hoping this isn't going to be an problem, I'll let you know if it becomes one.

 

[jviss]

I've been told by other T3800 owners that the transmission fails, and they had to replace them with something else, and the job was expensive. I haven't had any problems yet.

 

[Sean K]

Westerbeke supplies the transmission, I wonder what they say? I'll contact them and ask, just for informational purposes, for now. I know they offered several different transmissions behind this engine.

 

[jviss]

Westerbeke supplies the transmission, I wonder what they say? I'll contact them and ask, just for informational purposes, for now. I know they offered several different transmissions behind this engine.

I've already spoken to a Westerbeke dealer, Hansen Marine Engineering, in Marblehead, MA. They said they'd supply a ZF gear (I think), a new bell housing and adapter plate. I don't have my notes here, but I think it was something like $4 for the parts, plus whatever labor you'd incur.

 

[kappykaplan]

it was something like $4 for the parts

$4K perhaps?

 

[jviss]

$4K perhaps?

Yes! I was using boat dollars there.

 

[kappykaplan]

Ah, good old boat units!

 

[jviss]

Sean, do you have an owners manual? Engine manuals?

Do you have single line reefing?

I assume you have an Offshore Spars mast, boom and boom vang, true?

What winces? I have three Harken #32 self tailing winches on the coach roof, 2 48ST primaries.

Rope clutches?

Any pics???

 

[Sean K]

Yes, yes, yes and yes. I have the original Tartan Yacht manual that came with the boat, and the Westerbeke manual that I downloaded from their website. I also downloaded the Force 10 stove manual. I have single line reefing on the main and a furling foresail. The original Offshore Spars mast, boom and vang. All the hardware is Harken including mainsail mast cars, 2 #28 winches, 2 #24 winches and 1 #20. There are two 2-line clutch’s that I’m changing to 3-line since they’re both broken (5 ropes). I’ll send pictures once I figure out how. My top-sides are Navy Blue Awlgrip and the toe-rail is varnished teak. The deck is white with tan colored non-skid (original) and in good shape.
I even found the original 1996 Tartan color Brochure and I found some old press articles dating back to when the boat was new. Since I’m adding all new electronics I’ll have those manuals once they’re installed. The original owner was still sailing with an outdated VHF and Loran, that’s all. I’m going to the other extreme with electronics, once I finish adding it all.

I have to replace the anchor, do you have a recommendation. I do not have a windlass and probably won’t decide to add one until I figure out the anchor and rode, if at all. I do have the Tartan anchor roller.
If you need a copy of anything let me know. I must say the Tartan manual obviously is written to cover this boat recognizing that its possible that no two were built exactly the same.

 

[jviss]

I think the best anchor is a Rocna. Mine is the 15kg one, I think. I prefer an all chain rode, and I wouldn't have it without a windlass.

Are you sure about those winch sizes? They are all smaller than my smallest, and none seem big enough for primaries (for the jib sheets). I have 3 #32-ST on the coach roof and my primaries are 48-ST.