That’s correct - on a run the vang prevents the sail from twisting forward too much. The “riding up” you mention is just the visible effect of that twist on the height of the boom.
Boom kicker or topping lift?
- Thread starter fred1diver
- Start date
I like a topping lift. it can be used with the boom as a crane (I've pulled many an engine this way), or as a very quick way to let the wind out of a sail if needed. I've pulled dinghies aboard this way too.
A vang controls twist by reducing it. Off the wind, the boom's natural tendency is to rise allowing the top of the sail to twist off and depower. The stronger the wind, the more twist that is induced. The vang (all vangs regardless of rigid or soft) applies downward pressure on the boom which flattens the sail and reduces twist.
When running down wind and approaching a broach, releasing the vang will immediately depower the main and help to get the boat get its footing.
I have seen what you are describing... and I suppose it is just like twist but in an exagerated way. I guess I never thought of the boom riding up as "twisting" the sail. When sitting in the cockpit on a run, you are not looking down the leach so to my eye a rising boom acts to induce a crease about half-way up the sail that dumps most of the wind.... and you are correct, it will depower the sail. I suppose if you were looking down the leach, it would look just like twist.
My new sail was cut a little too big, and the headboard catches the topping lift every time I tack.Topping lift is a problem for those with large roaches (as here in Louisiana?)
I am considering a rigid vang of some sort (my previous boat had a book kicker) Just to eliminate this source of chafe.
Greg
Greg, is it catching the topping lift or the back stay?
There are some boats, I think 6 Meters are an example, that have a short batten off the mast head to hold the topping lift away from the sail. It sticks out maybe a foot. That may be a cheaper solution.
I think the normal solution is just to leave the topping lift slack when sailing, so it doesn’t matter if the roach touches it - the TL just bounces around. Some sport boats have a batten to hold the back stay faster aft so it doesn’t catch as much.
The roach of my main used to snag/chafe on the topping lift which was also set up in a way that was difficult to adjust. Annoying in every way. I replaced it with a Garhauer Rigid Vang about 12 years ago and am glad I did. No more roach snagging/chafing, it supports the boom when raising/lowering the main, lifts the boom when I want more draft or twist in the main, and pulls the boom down when I need to flatten it. All my control lines run back to the cockpit for quick, easy & safe access.
As others mentioned, I also use the main halyard like a topping lift when not sailing to lift the boom a bit higher for cockpit headroom, limit boom movement, take load (and long term spring compression) off the lift tube, and to prevent halyard slap.
As others mentioned, I also use the main halyard like a topping lift when not sailing to lift the boom a bit higher for cockpit headroom, limit boom movement, take load (and long term spring compression) off the lift tube, and to prevent halyard slap.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,984
There is not a topping lift made that can lift you out of your “roach” problem.Topping lift is a problem for those with large roaches (as here in Louisiana?
In your neck of the woods they have lived since the Dinosaurs, and will be there long after we all have been swept away.
On my boat, I use a ring in my topping lift to hold up the aft end of my sail-pak. Question for those of you who have a rigid vang and not topping lift with a main sail pack. How do you support the aft end of the pack?
Attachments
Mack Sails sells a bracket that bolts to the end of the boom. The Mack Pack is then suspended from the bracket.
No knowledge about rigid vangs because I have always had a topping lift. I use the topping lift to temporarily lift the boom when I have to reef. This makes it easy to bundle up the sail with the reef lines. I don't know so I am asking; will a rigid vang do that?
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,984
Yes it can but… not always as easily as a topping lift.
Some boomkickers/rigid vangs use gas pistons - some use springs. They can be set to give your boom a positive angle when at rest. Of course this does not work for sailing, so the unit uses a block and tackle to pull the boom down to level as a standard Vang is designed to do.
You can of course guess, the gas in the piston can fail or the spring can wear out. They are not maintenance free. But what is. They do free you from having the topping lift halyard from flapping in the breeze.
All depends on how you choose to rig your boat.
START
I never tie in the reef points. (small lines along the bottom of the sail) My main sail is about 18" shorter on the hoist and 6" shorter on the foot than it should be. It also has an old unused partial reef patch that ends abruptly at a horizontal seam with new 1st and 2nd reef patches above and below. There are also a bunch of needle holes at the clew that show the outline of a previous clew patch that was removed.
It was that way when I purchased the boat so I do not full history but it is obvious that the sail had an 18" horizontal strip cut out of it and then was sown back together and the trailing edge cut back 6" from there down to made a clean line. As I said, this horizontal strip is just above the original reef.
If you have the reef points tied in and for any reason, the reef clew or tack lest go it will tear the sail in two and you also can have a main like mine.
END
Now back to our regularly scheduled programing.
This thread is getting interesting, I’m learning a lot, but what I really want to know is how simple is it to add a topping lift versus adding a boom kicker?
It just takes a trip up the mast (or bring the mast down) so you can attach the top end to the masthead.
Adding a topping lift may involve adding a sheave to the masthead if there isn't one where a kicker is adding a bracket to the bottom of the boom and an attachment point at the base of the mast.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,984
Simple... depending.
It is all about what you have at the top of the mast and what you do not.
It is all about what you have at the top of the mast and what you do not.
Better to have a sheeve at the mast head, but I used to have a boat that didn't, the mast head was fixed and if you wanted to adjust, you did it from the end of the boom. So actually it's quite easy...
dj
dj
The topping lift is easier and cheaper and more budget friendly if the mast is down. A line down from the mast head, a couple of blocks and a cleat and you're good. The line can be light 5/16" will work because there is not much force on the line.