Barber Hauler

[Bill19233]

I didn't start this thread to figure out how to sail a Jeanneau 349, but if I didn't think it was too much load on those rings, I would think that extra gray line in the ring was a double ended mid boom mainsheet led back to the cockpit on both sides. And the rings are not adjustable to change the lead angle of the jib sheet.
There's a 349 on the dock next to mine, I'm definitely going to check it out next week.

 

[dlochner]

I didn't start this thread to figure out how to sail a Jeanneau 349,

Yeah, but sometimes a simple question stimulates different ideas.

Here's another image from the Jeaneau site: 554e7a0153363daf5193f6b7ba5c2889.jpg That may clarify things a bit and is different from the other images or confuse them more. This image does not show the jib sheets or the winches that control them. In the original photo that was posted, those blocks were not shown, perhaps they are an option? In the photo I initially posted, there is a bunch of line lying on the deck near the ring, I think this is the block and tackle to adjust the ring.

Yes, the gray line appears to be a double ended mainsheet. However, there appear to be adjusting lines on the rings. Notice the block and tackle on the inboard side of the rings. These would allow the rings to move forward and aft and inboard and outboard. This allows the ring to simultaneously act like a barber hauler and adjustable fairlead.

To go back to the original question about barber hauling, a simple method would be to place a low friction ring forward of the turning block on each jib sheet with a line leading inboard and then back to the cockpit and a stopper. It would be like a horizontal version of a spinnaker sheet twing. The Jeaneau needs the second nonadjustable line because it does not have a track and lead secured to the deck.

 

[JRT]

Following, I want to add these to my O'day 25 instead of the expense and complexity of adjustable jib tracks.

 

[Bill19233]

Yes, the gray line appears to be a double ended mainsheet. However, there appear to be adjusting lines on the rings. Notice the block and tackle on the inboard side of the rings. These would allow the rings to move forward and aft and inboard and outboard. This allows the ring to simultaneously act like a barber hauler and adjustable fairlead.

The photo you attached makes sense and I see how it will adjust forward and in and looks like a great setup that avoids dozens of holes in the deck from a track. The photo I inserted in #11 must be a different boat that doesn't have the inboard adjuster on the ring. But, when you adjust the ring to change your jib lead angle, it also changes your mainsheet tension, not much, but a mid boom mainsheet seems like a lot of load on the ring. There must be something else I'm not seeing, I don't think you would want to run your jib and mainsheet sheets through the same ring where they could interfere or tangle.

 

[dlochner]

The photo you attached makes sense and I see how it will adjust forward and in and looks like a great setup that avoids dozens of holes in the deck from a track. The photo I inserted in #11 must be a different boat that doesn't have the inboard adjuster on the ring. But, when you adjust the ring to change your jib lead angle, it also changes your mainsheet tension, not much, but a mid boom mainsheet seems like a lot of load on the ring. There must be something else I'm not seeing, I don't think you would want to run your jib and mainsheet sheets through the same ring where they could interfere or tangle.

The last image I posted looks more like a computer aided drawing and not a real boat. The confusing thing about the image you posted in #11 is the absence of the adjusting line, perhaps that is an option?

The line securing the ring looks like 5/16 or ⅜" dyneema. That would be plenty strong enough. Keeping the lines straight would be important. Yes, changing the jib lead angle would cause a small change in the mainsheet, a slight inconvenience, however, any large changes would like be the result of a major wind shift or change in boat direction and re-trimming every thing would be in order.

One thing I would be concerned with is a tripping hazard. The fairleads appear to be on the cabin top and out of the way. If they were on the side deck they might interfere with going forward. There are enough things on board to trip over, I'm hesitant to add more.

 

[Bill19233]

The last image I posted looks more like a computer aided drawing and not a real boat. The confusing thing about the image you posted in #11 is the absence of the adjusting line, perhaps that is an option?

The line securing the ring looks like 5/16 or ⅜" dyneema. That would be plenty strong enough. Keeping the lines straight would be important. Yes, changing the jib lead angle would cause a small change in the mainsheet, a slight inconvenience, however, any large changes would like be the result of a major wind shift or change in boat direction and re-trimming every thing would be in order.

One thing I would be concerned with is a tripping hazard. The fairleads appear to be on the cabin top and out of the way. If they were on the side deck they might interfere with going forward. There are enough things on board to trip over, I'm hesitant to add more.

It's usually a tripping hazard if it's above instead of on the deck, and there are lines all over above the deck and cabin top on this boat. I think the photos in #11 and #21 are the same boat. It looks like there is a ring adjusting line on the port side, but not one on the starboard.

 

[Jackdaw]

For jibs, there is a simple rule.

If your tracks are on the deck, you use inhaulers to point in flat water.
If your tracks are on the cabintop, you use outhaulers to reach.

If your tracks are indeed on the cabintop, you don’t need inhaulers. Your boat is probably pointing as well as it can.

If they were below, you could inhaul in flat water, like on the on the First 35. The 2:1 runs back to the mast and then to a camcleat near the pit.

 

[Jackdaw]

And yes hauler lines can be a tripping hazard. The often run over side decks, in particular outhaulers. Our spin twin twings double as outhaulers we use when jib reaching; we get used to stepping over them. The decovered lines thin diameter makes it less of a rolling hazard.

 

[Simon Sexton]

@Bill19233 ,

I'd hate to distract from the original topic, but what's the name of your boat? I believe I've seen you out in the bay before!​

 

[Bill19233]

For jibs, there is a simple rule.

If your tracks are on the deck, you use inhaulers to point in flat water.
If your tracks are on the cabintop, you use outhaulers to reach.

If your tracks are indeed on the cabintop, you don’t need inhaulers. Your boat is probably pointing as well as it can.

If they were below, you could inhaul in flat water, like on the on the First 35. The 2:1 runs back to the mast and then to a camcleat near the pit.

View attachment 156889

Your photo is exactly what I thought I need to do. But, you're right, with the tracks on the cabin top, we're pointing as well as it can. I may try what's in the photo for grins on a long tack.

 

[Bill19233]

@Bill19233 ,

I'd hate to distract from the original topic, but what's the name of your boat? I believe I've seen you out in the bay before!​

"Sunspot Baby", I was surprised that a lot of people in this area have no idea where I got the name. He'll be at the Woodlands next May on another farewell concert tour.

 

[Jackdaw]

"Sunspot Baby", I was surprised that a lot of people in this area have no idea where I got the name. He'll be at the Woodlands next May on another farewell concert tour.

We used to make a once-annual trip from MTU down to Cobo to catch one of his (often 5 in a row) shows. Most people are blown away by the geography of Michigan. For the driving distance from Houghton to Detriot, I could drive from Tech to Minneapolis, and get back to the MI state line before I drove far enough to get to D-town. BIG state.

 

[Jackdaw]

Your photo is exactly what I thought I need to do. But, you're right, with the tracks on the cabin top, we're pointing as well as it can. I may try what's in the photo for grins on a long tack.

Oh FOR SURE play with it. Its how you get better ;^)

 

[DArcy]

Here's a shot of the inhauler on the C&C115 I race on. It's not a great shot of the setup but you can see it's just a stainless steel ring with the sheet through it just ahead of the jib car. It isn't loaded here because we are cracked off a bit, but if you pull on the 4:1 line shown slack on the cabin top it tweaks the sheet in. It ends up as an 8:1 total because the line doubles through the ring and back to the cabin top so it's pretty easy to adjust even under load. You can see the jib track is inside the shrouds but as Jackdaw says, if you are already sheeted to the cabin top you may not gain by tweaking inboard.

 

[Jackdaw]

Here's a shot of the inhauler on the C&C115 I race on. It's not a great shot of the setup but you can see it's just a stainless steel ring with the sheet through it just ahead of the jib car. It isn't loaded here because we are cracked off a bit, but if you pull on the 4:1 line shown slack on the cabin top it tweaks the sheet in. It ends up as an 8:1 total because the line doubles through the ring and back to the cabin top so it's pretty easy to adjust even under load. You can see the jib track is inside the shrouds but as Jackdaw says, if you are already sheeted to the cabin top you may not gain by tweaking inboard.

That's a great setup!

 

[rgranger]

Here's a shot of the inhauler on the C&C115 I race on. It's not a great shot of the setup but you can see it's just a stainless steel ring with the sheet through it just ahead of the jib car. It isn't loaded here because we are cracked off a bit, but if you pull on the 4:1 line shown slack on the cabin top it tweaks the sheet in. It ends up as an 8:1 total because the line doubles through the ring and back to the cabin top so it's pretty easy to adjust even under load. You can see the jib track is inside the shrouds but as Jackdaw says, if you are already sheeted to the cabin top you may not gain by tweaking inboard.

Thanks for that shot. It is really easy to see how it is set up. I'm setting up a system that would be essentially the opposite of this (an out hauler) and I sure can use this setup as a guide (just reverse it). I also like your drink holder set up....

 

[Apex]

Here's a shot of the inhauler on the C&C115 I race on.....

Same setup on Gotta Wanta, the J122 I race on, Bob installed low friction rings. The purchase is made from the opposite side for allowing adjustment from the weather side. Looks like the blocks on the rail bungied to lifeline are for outhaul as well? When reaching the outhaul really helps as well.

 

[Jackdaw]

Two addition thoughts:

1) The 4:1 is great for racing; it allows you to inhaul while trimmed. With a lower ratio, sometimes you need to ease the sheet, inhaul, and then trim back on. Depending on your program that might be perfectly OK. We do that for our outhaulers.

2) Use ceramic low friction rings instead of SS rings. Much less friction due to the wider sliding surface. You can attach around the ring if the ring is fixed, or create an easy 2:1 by looping the working line in the ring.

 

[Jackdaw]

Looks like the blocks on the rail bungied to lifeline are for outhaul as well?

Standup blocks for guys. The boat probably runs separate sheets and guys.

 

[Jackdaw]

View attachment 156696

but if I didn't think it was too much load on those rings, I would think that extra gray line in the ring was a double ended mid boom mainsheet led back to the cockpit on both sides.

That's exactly what is is. The load is not on the ring. Its on the dyneema loop around it.