Barber Hauler

capta · Sep 22, 2018

With a self tending staysail there isn't a lot of control possible on the sheeting angles. We often use what I call the magic sheet, normally attached at the clew, to get a better sheeting angle. Works like a charm.

dlochner · Sep 22, 2018

If a boat has inside jib tracks, i.e., between the rail and the doghouse, there really isn't much of a need to barber haul the sail. See the attached photo. When the sail is sheeted in it will be close to the stays. On the other hand, if the track located on the rail, barber hauling will bring the sail closer to midline and improve performance to weather.

Will Gilmore · Sep 22, 2018

I don't see there being a one-size-fits-all solution. The jib cut, the track layout, the location of shrouds, where you can or want to mount cleats/winches, all have something to say about that issue. Knowing what you want for control in what conditions is where you start, then... well, you know.

-Will (Dragonfly)

capta · Sep 22, 2018

dlochner said:
If a boat has inside jib tracks, i.e., between the rail and the doghouse, there really isn't much of a need to barber haul the sail. See the attached photo. When the sail is sheeted in it will be close to the stays. On the other hand, if the track located on the rail, barber hauling will bring the sail closer to midline and improve performance to weather.

What about when you want to ease off and go off the wind? Then it might be advantageous to take a second sheet to a more outboard snatch block, farther forward, to give the headsail a fuller shape, don't you think?

dlochner · Sep 22, 2018

capta said:
What about when you want to ease off and go off the wind? Then it might be advantageous to take a second sheet to a more outboard snatch block, farther forward, to give the headsail a fuller shape, don't you think?

That is what I do when I'm traveling. If I'm only out for a day sail, then I would just ease the adjustable fairlead forward, not perfect but it was good enough.

The point I was making was, there is no advantage to barber hauling if you have inboard tracks.

Will Gilmore · Sep 22, 2018

dlochner said:
there is no advantage to barber hauling

That may also depend on the cut and size of your headsail and how far forward your tracks come.

-Will (Dragonfly)

rgranger · Sep 22, 2018

Great topic...

So on the H26 the sheet blocks are fixed and already rather inboard. So I got some of those low friction rings to try to set up a "reverse" barber hauler to to let my sail out on a reach or other off wind points. Sorry I don't have pics of that..

HOWEVER!

The H26 also does not have a traveler so I did do a barber hauler approach to the main sheet and it noticeably improved speed, flatness of the boat and pointing ability.

rardiH36 · Sep 22, 2018

I also have experimented with the barber-hauler thing. And at one point even rigged up a means to get it done without a lot of bother. But after numerous outings, I abandoned the concept. Reasons were several:

1) I sail solo. Or if with other people, usually not adept enough to understand how to attend the barber hauler. I couldn't do both jib sheet and barber hauler from behind the wheel. Even though I rigged up a system, two lines needed attending. Either to get to the cabin top winches and/or sheet clutches. And also trips out of the cockpit when I wanted to attach or detach the barber-hauler. Didn't feel safe. Standard jib sheet alone = no problem.

2) Sure, the concept is fine if one's close-haul course is in steady direction and with consistent winds for an extended period/distance. On San Francisco Bay: a) The wind changes direction and velocity frequently and without notice. Releasing both the barber-hauler and the jib sheet simultaneously take was problematical. b) Numerous boats/ferries/ships on the bay necessitate sometimes sudden course changes. More than once, the lines got tangled due to the need to suddenly release the sheet. c) Most steady reaches are only about 10-15 minutes duration max. Then have to tack or jibe. Sailing solo, each time caused anxiety.
3) My boat was designed for toe-rail sheeting. Yes, the boat did point a bit better with the barber-hauled sheet angle closer to the center line. But it wasn't not dramatic if one doesn't race. (Or at least is hoping to match the the pointing ability of that J-boat also on the same close-haul course.)

The above notwithstanding, I did last year buy all of the parts to install jib sheet tracks on the main deck right next to the cabin top. The mod will yield about two feet closer to the center line compared to toe rail sheeting. Project got stalled. Primarily because my boat doesn't have a FRP/Core/FRP sandwich on the main deck near the cabin top. Just the top layer of 1/4" FRP. The mod's needed to ensure structural strength can be done. But adds a lot of complexity and time. Just haven't gotten around to it!

thinwater · Sep 22, 2018

Every day.

However, on most multihulls, we set it up to haul out rather than in (the jib track is set for the tightest angle we will use). Reaching we haul it WAY out, but even close hauled in a blow I will sheet the jib in moderately tight and then give the barber hauler a good yank. It flattens the jib and opens the slot just a little.

If reefed, I run the leads way forward.

rgranger · Sep 22, 2018

Bill19233 said:
I was thinking low friction rings like rgranger . I'm not sure how adjustable this is, but here's the jib sheet set up on the Jeanneau 349. No tracks or blocks, the jib sheet goes through the ring to the winch.
View attachment 156656

I'd like to understand this better. Do you have more pictures? Why are there two lines going through the same ring? And how do you adjust the sheeting angle with this set up?

Will Gilmore · Sep 22, 2018

Bill19233 said:
Got the photo from the Jeanneau web site. I thought I knew how it worked, now I’m not sure.

https://www.jeanneauamerica.com/en/boats/2-sun-odyssey/59-sun-odyssey-349#gallery-exterior_16

The lighter line looks like some sort of Cunningham.

-Will (Dragonfly)

thinwater · Sep 22, 2018

^^ Certainly not related to the OP's question.
This is a more common approach, though as I said, multihulls haul outwards.

Also this:
http://l-36.com/inhauler.php

dlochner · Sep 23, 2018

rgranger said:
I'd like to understand this better. Do you have more pictures? Why are there two lines going through the same ring? And how do you adjust the sheeting angle with this set up?

Will Gilmore said:
The lighter line looks like some sort of Cunningham.

-Will (Dragonfly)

Here's another view from Jeannau website: https://www.jeanneauamerica.com/en/boats/2-sun-odyssey/59-sun-odyssey-349#gallery-exterior_23

The black lines are the jib sheets and do what jib sheets normally do. The gray lines control the rings, tighten the line the rings will move back and in, loosen they move forward and out. Essentially, an inexpensive way to have an easily adjustable fair lead without a track and the hardware necessary for a towable lead.

However, on the port side there is an extra line attached to the ring, There doesn't seem to be one on the starboard side. And then in this photo: https://www.jeanneauamerica.com/en/boats/2-sun-odyssey/59-sun-odyssey-349#gallery-exterior_3 there appears to be track for a self-tacking jib.

Perhaps that extra line is the sheet for the self-tacking jib if one is using the jib in the self-tacking mode.

Will Gilmore · Sep 23, 2018

Wow, now I REALLY don't understand it. It looks like there is added complexity. Why would those lines go to the gooseneck on the main? Why, in the photo in dlochner's link, does it show the windward lines tight while there doesn't appear to be a jib sheet going through the leeward ring? Bill's photo clearly shows the setup of the ring and it doesn't have any adjustment. There must be a second, primary, sheet on the jib that doesn't go through the ring.

-Will (Dragonfly)

rgranger · Sep 23, 2018

thinwater said:
^^ Certainly not related to the OP's question.
This is a more common approach, though as I said, multihulls haul outwards.

Also this:
http://l-36.com/inhauler.php

Thanks Thin water. I think this is exactly what I was trying to do but now I have a better plan.

dlochner · Sep 23, 2018

Will Gilmore said:
Why would those lines go to the gooseneck on the main?

It gives the rings vertical lift.

Will Gilmore said:
Why, in the photo in dlochner's link, does it show the windward lines tight while there doesn't appear to be a jib sheet going through the leeward ring?

Look closely. The windward sheet drapes from the ring to the mast and then is hung up on something so it looks taught from the mast to the jib tack.

Will Gilmore said:
Bill's photo clearly shows the setup of the ring and it doesn't have any adjustment.

Yes it does. The gray line is the adjusting line. Slack the gray line and the ring will drop. The jib will then pull the ring outward opening the slot for more off wind work. The ring can move forward or aft based on the pull from the gray line. The line controls the height of the ring and the ability to tip forward or aft. Tension the gray line and it positions the ring. Loosen the gray line and the jib sheet positions the ring.

The ring and the block on the boom are not in the same vertical plane. In this photo you can see the gray line is angled forward: https://www.jeanneauamerica.com/en/boats/2-sun-odyssey/59-sun-odyssey-349#gallery-exterior_29 (Note, in this photo the jib is furled, the boat is sailing with the Asymmetric)

Admittedly the adjustment range is quite limited. Then again, it looks to be a small jib, probably around 100%. With small a jib, a large range is not really necessary.