AND you will only grow mold if you don't use enough glycol. At full strength it is antiseptic, but if you leave water in the lines or try to stretch it, yup, it will grow stuff. Never have mold problem.
Best Winter Storage Tips
- Thread starter Phil Herring
- Start date
Bingo! Most folks allow the PG to get diluted by not using enough. This leads to bursting issues and mold... PG is cheap, the repairs from not using that extra $3.99 bottle are far more costly....
I've got copper tubing with flare fittings from 1961 for many of my water lines. I dump 2 to 3 gallons in 3 separate monel water tanks (also 1961!) after the tanks, all gravity plumbed, empty into the bilge. It's not just the tubing I worry about, it's the fittings on the tanks that may hold enough water to split.
But as Larry prevents, this stuff is awful if some is left in your water tank. Even though we drink bottle water onboard, you cook with tank water, brush your teeth, etc.
So that means I have to flush at least 5, 10(maybe 20 until I don't detect it) gallons of water through the tanks and lines, allowing it to drain into the bilge again.
Most people in Maine know this is no problem because they have a garboard plug installed that stays out all winter to keep the bilge dry.
Or for the "belt and suspenders" solution, blow the water out, run the AF (PG) through all lines, and blow it again. This way there is much less risk of the AF getting diluted and very little AF stays in the lines, so there is no (or very little) residual AF taste to the water in the spring.
If possible, design so that NO glycol goes in the tank. In my case, I pump the tank MT, then shop vac it dry. I give it a light scrub on the way down, plus a rinse, so that it is put away clean and dry like dishes after dinner, and so it will be CLEAN in the spring. Glycol ONLY goes in the pipes, added through valves installed for this reason. Very easy. I have a similar set up on the head intake and AC intake. Winterizing is fast, easy, ad reliable. Yes, it takes and afternoon and $100 to buy all the fittings for all of the systems, but it is paid back the next year in reduced labor.
Again BINGO!! On the vast majority of boats I winterize PG is only ever sucked into the FW system hoses but never the tanks. I do have a couple of customers who won't pop for the minimal expense to re-plumb, so no PG ever needs to hit the tank, & they are the only boats I put PG into the tanks on. Also water heaters are always drained then bypassed.If possible, design so that NO glycol goes in the tank.
We never drink the hot water, or cook with our hot water, so I've never been concerned about antifreeze in the hot water tank. Should I be? I dump gallons of antifreeze into an the empty FW tank, opening each faucet, hot and cold, until it runs as pink as it was when it went in. Then I keep the faucets open until they sputter air and call it good. In the spring I flush the system out with two full tanks of fresh water (fill > empty x 2). In the spring I commission the FW system with bleach and more flushing per @Peggie Hall HeadMistress 's instructions. My wife thinks I go overboard with the FW tank flushing, but at 34 gallons per flush, it's not that much.
If you bypass the HW tank, do you not have to add antifreeze for the residual water?
If you bypass the HW tank, do you not have to add antifreeze for the residual water?
pure 'PEAK -50 ANTIFREEZE' freezes at -10. and thus there went part of my freshwater plumbing system, including the hot water heater . kiss ...$$$$$$$$ by by.
That is the freeze point but burst is much lower, unless it gets diluted beyond how diluted it already is. The problem is in every freeze up I have fixed is DILUTION of the of the antifreeze by not using enough or incorrectly assuming you can winterize a water heater by adding AF as opposed to bypassing it.. It would take LOTS and LOTS of AF to have a non diluted 100% AF 6 GAL water heater.
Try this, place a pint glass of milk in the sink. Now fill another pint glass with water and slowly pour it into the milk glass. How many pint glasses did it take to make the milk glass perfectly clear/non-diluted.
I had an owner who claimed he sucked in 14 gallons (wow) of -50 on a 31 foot boat and he still burst the 6 gallon water heater. The AF I was able to capture in the spring was grossly diluted. It's not just a gallon in to a gallon out it mixes....
Now you know why water heaters should be emptied and bypassed for winter storage, and why your AF concentration should not be allowed to get diluted.. Hopefully others can learn from this post...
- Bypass your HW heater plumbing and drain it, don’t try to pump it full of antifreeze. There are kits to do this or you can simply connect cold to hot piping and leave the HW heater opened and dry.
- Don’t use AF with alcohol in it (Peak sells a cheap PG AF that has ethanol in it). Guy who previously owned my boat used vodka from the Army PX to winterize and he managed to ruin most of the gaskets and fittings in the potable water system.
- Hire a pro, or do it the way a pro would do it: https://marinehowto.com/freshwater-system-winterizing/
All of the above, but I take the booze home to enjoy over the winter.
Also:
Turn cushions on edge for air flow. (I put all of mine in the v-berth with PFD’s saddle-like over the top edge to hold them apart.)
Deploy about six DampRid buckets in the cabin.
Winterize the head by pumping antifreeze through from the intake hose. Don’t just pour it in the bowl.
Winterize the engine when it’s HOT. Some engines have thermostatic bypass valves that can send your antifreeze directly out the exhaust system without going through the engine block if you winterize the engine too quickly from a cold start.
Drain and by-pass the water heater. (Takes way less antifreeze and you don’t want antifreeze in the WH tank anyway.)
Take the sails to your local sail loft for inspection and repairs, cleaning if needed, and winter storage.
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I place 7 pails of calcium chloride around the cabins to absorb water and keep the humidity low. Never had a problem with mold on the cushions in 8 years of this storage method.The pails of calcium chloride are set up as follows: Buy plastic pails and colanders at the dollar store. Put a colander in the top of each pail and place several scoops of calcium chloride in the colander. The calcium chloride will absorb the moisture and then it will drip into the bucket. My 7 buckets collect 2 full buckets of water over the winter and spring. Most of the water appears in the spring.The calcium chloride can be purchased at any garden supply store and it is the same stuff in the "damp-rid" pre-loaded buckets that you can buy at the boat stores for 10x more $$.
Be sure to wet-vac all the water that is standing in the bilge. A large volume of water will over-whelm the buckets of calcium chloride.
Be sure to wet-vac all the water that is standing in the bilge. A large volume of water will over-whelm the buckets of calcium chloride.
I like to:
- Be the first (sailboat) in the water in April, and be the last one out at end of October.
1) pump out holding tank day of haul-out
2) change engine oil after pump-out and engine is warmed up
3) run faucets to empty water tank
4) move boat to well, haulout, block (done by the yard).
5) run 2) gallons AF through engine. Dump AF into strainer.
6) By-pass water heater, open drain valve, use air pressure in T&P valve to speed up the draining process
7) Pump 1 gallon AF through head intake, through valve, bowl, and to holding tank. Dump AF into strainer
8) Pump 1 gallon AF through water system.
9) disconnect battery leads
10) Install canvas cover over boat.
Greg
- Be the first (sailboat) in the water in April, and be the last one out at end of October.
1) pump out holding tank day of haul-out
2) change engine oil after pump-out and engine is warmed up
3) run faucets to empty water tank
4) move boat to well, haulout, block (done by the yard).
5) run 2) gallons AF through engine. Dump AF into strainer.
6) By-pass water heater, open drain valve, use air pressure in T&P valve to speed up the draining process
7) Pump 1 gallon AF through head intake, through valve, bowl, and to holding tank. Dump AF into strainer
8) Pump 1 gallon AF through water system.
9) disconnect battery leads
10) Install canvas cover over boat.
Greg
Just to add...if it can freeze bad things will happen. It's a pretty simple rule. So don't follow anyone's advice concerning how many gallons of "pink stuff" they add. Get yourself a refractometer with a reading scale for propylene glycol (and get decent quality propylene glycol, not a mix that includes alcohol). Test the bottle of glycol when you open it. Take a sample of what comes out each circuit you winterize. Make sure what comes out is about equal in concentration to what goes in. This way you won't use any more glycol than necessary, and you know things won't freeze up. FWIW, I use -60 glycol on everything except the motor. On the motor, I use -100 because that's the really expensive part.
Also, when you test the new bottle, don't get upset when the -60 only tests out to around +10 or so. The refractometer will read the slush (freeze) point, not the burst point.
Also, when you test the new bottle, don't get upset when the -60 only tests out to around +10 or so. The refractometer will read the slush (freeze) point, not the burst point.
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after haul out run two gallons of windshield washer fluid-50 thru engine and collect the discharge fluid from exhaust into 5 gallon bucket, shut engine off and empty the bucket into holding tank. Then run a gallon of antifreeze thru the engine.
The windshield washer fluid cleans the system and flushes out any residual water in the line so less likely to have any diluted antifreeze. And even if there was the washer fluid is rated at -50 anyway
Been doing this for 35 years
The windshield washer fluid cleans the system and flushes out any residual water in the line so less likely to have any diluted antifreeze. And even if there was the washer fluid is rated at -50 anyway
Been doing this for 35 years
Don't forget your muffler. This Spring I modified my exhaust system and for the first time in over twenty years I can reach my muffler drain plug. In the past I had to fill the muffler with pink antifreeze for the winter. This year I just have to open the now easily accessible drain plug.
As much as I would like a custom cover the economics are not justifiable (cost almost as much as the boat). But on the other hand, the boat is stored outdoors on the hard from Oct to April and needs protection from upstate NY winters. I have found that tarps can be made to work if they are made fast and taut. The judicious use of foam pool noodles over anything that protrudes (that can cause chafe of the tarp ) is helpful. I also find that using multiple tarps by layered and overlapping them, along with the occasional piece of Gorillla tape (to take in a tuck or fold) works to reduce wear. It is a must to keep the tarps from getting thrashed around and stretched.
Unstepping the mast and removing the spreaders allows me to use the mast as the longitudinal "peak" that the tarps are draped over. In the past I have left the stanchions and livelines on, but I may remove them this year to increase slope of the "roof". To accomodate snow and precip. shedding the mast is braced and elevated over the stern and slopes downward to the bow. I have found that i can get several seasons before a tarp starts seriously degrading (assuming I start with a medium or heavy duty tarp: 8-12+mil) and then they are relagated to the first "under" layer over which i will put it's replacement. I figure that after 5 winters, this covering system has cost about $500. Other winterization tasks include the usual: pump out holding tank (before hauling out), AF through the water systems, removal of sails and cushions (stored dry and safe at home), remove and inspect (replace if needed) all running rigging, Outboard is also brought home for storage, clean up and maintenance. Above all else, as others have mentioned as being important... I try to check on the boat occasionally. Sometimes I might need to clear a little snow off the tarp or tighten a line, but so far it has worked well, albeit it's not the prettiest cover on the lot.
Unstepping the mast and removing the spreaders allows me to use the mast as the longitudinal "peak" that the tarps are draped over. In the past I have left the stanchions and livelines on, but I may remove them this year to increase slope of the "roof". To accomodate snow and precip. shedding the mast is braced and elevated over the stern and slopes downward to the bow. I have found that i can get several seasons before a tarp starts seriously degrading (assuming I start with a medium or heavy duty tarp: 8-12+mil) and then they are relagated to the first "under" layer over which i will put it's replacement. I figure that after 5 winters, this covering system has cost about $500. Other winterization tasks include the usual: pump out holding tank (before hauling out), AF through the water systems, removal of sails and cushions (stored dry and safe at home), remove and inspect (replace if needed) all running rigging, Outboard is also brought home for storage, clean up and maintenance. Above all else, as others have mentioned as being important... I try to check on the boat occasionally. Sometimes I might need to clear a little snow off the tarp or tighten a line, but so far it has worked well, albeit it's not the prettiest cover on the lot.
Years ago the following practice was devised on other boats and incorporated on all future boats:
All water lines were cut at their lowest accessible points with brass garden hose couplings applied. This allows the tanks to all drain into the bilge.
Engine is fresh water flushed with a pink RV antifreeze follow up.
The water heater has a manifold by pass. Turn 3 quarter turn ball valves and pick up RV antifreeze thru the pump until pressure valve kicks off.. Open all cold faucets until a pink flow is obtained while capturing the diluted pink and dumping into the head. Same with the hot side. Flush head.. add straight RV to the head. flush and re-add, flush and add to stay in bowl. RV is poured down the holding tank vent and suction port.. The over the side macerating is then functioned to discharge tank into a 55 gallon poly drum. Once the pump cavitates, more RV is poured down the suction port.
Then engine oil is now drained and the filter changes. Fresh oil added and the engine briefly run to fill the filter and move the new oil around the engine.
All water lines were cut at their lowest accessible points with brass garden hose couplings applied. This allows the tanks to all drain into the bilge.
Engine is fresh water flushed with a pink RV antifreeze follow up.
The water heater has a manifold by pass. Turn 3 quarter turn ball valves and pick up RV antifreeze thru the pump until pressure valve kicks off.. Open all cold faucets until a pink flow is obtained while capturing the diluted pink and dumping into the head. Same with the hot side. Flush head.. add straight RV to the head. flush and re-add, flush and add to stay in bowl. RV is poured down the holding tank vent and suction port.. The over the side macerating is then functioned to discharge tank into a 55 gallon poly drum. Once the pump cavitates, more RV is poured down the suction port.
Then engine oil is now drained and the filter changes. Fresh oil added and the engine briefly run to fill the filter and move the new oil around the engine.
