Need help, 87 H23 with Francespar mast

Apr 27, 2010
1,279
Hunter 23 Lake Wallenpaupack
So the halyard still hangs way back from the base of the mast (like a foot or more) even with the forestay turnbuckle all the way in? Crazy Dave is the expert on these boats, and what masts came with them. I am not sure I have heard of a "Francespar" mast on a 23, though the various companies (Kenyon, Z-spar) have changed hands over time. I wonder if that is possibly a retrofitted mast? The things that could cause it to rake way too far back are (at least what I can think of):
Mast too short, e.g., cut down or replaced.
Forestay too short (EDIT: too long :) )
Mast base (tabernacle) mounted too far forward (does it look like any work has been done there, e.g., a new one put in?).
Fitting where forestay attaches to mast mounted too low.
If you exhaust all other possibilities, particularly if you find it isn't an original mast, I guess I would shorten the forestay, either by buying a new one of the correct length with swaged fittings, or maybe buy a swageless eye or threaded stud, cut the old terminal off, and fit the new one. You'd have to figure out with a little trigonometry how long the stay should be.
 
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P100D

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Jul 24, 2016
129
Hunter 23 Nashville TN Percy Priest lake
The mast is correct. It's the same on my '87. And I was in contact with Hunter last year about the mast foot, or lack thereof on this mast. And they said all was correct. My forstay was almost as closed when we replaced all Rigging last year. I looked for my measurements and I don't still have them.
 
Apr 27, 2010
1,279
Hunter 23 Lake Wallenpaupack
Another thought: IF you intend to replace the forestay (or the fitting) you could support the mast with the jib halyard, remove the turnbuckle and cut each threaded piece to about half its length. That would let you tighten it and shorten the stay effective length by maybe 2 inches. If that allows you to get about the right rake and tighten the uppers, you'd then know the correct length for a replacement. I would not sail it with such short studs, at least unless I could drill a new hole for a cotter pin (hard to do in stainless without a drill press).
Also, I would get a shorter clevis pin for the toggle that attaches the turnbuckle to the chain plate - that toggle is bending outward. The pin should be just a little longer than the distance between the toggle sides when they are parallel.
 
Apr 27, 2010
1,279
Hunter 23 Lake Wallenpaupack
Another idea for a test: use the jib halyard as a temporary forestay (obviously only if it is in good shape), removing the wire stay entirely at the turnbuckle. Loosen sidestays and backstay quite a bit. Adjust the rake to the proper setting (say, main halyard about 4 or 5 inches behind mast). Then tighten uppers and "eyeball" if they seem to be likely to have enough range in their turnbuckles that they would be able to get tight if you had a forestay set to that mast angle, and see if at that angle the current forestay is obviously too long. You obviously won't be able to actually tighten them as the halyard will stretch. If that seems to fix it, you'd then have an estimate of how much shorter the forestay should be. Without knowing the history, it is possible a prev owner simply ordered a replacement stay and got the measurement wrong.
 
Jul 31, 2018
46
Hunter 260 Chapin
2nd update of the day. I loosened the back stay all the way and the shrouds tighten up 3-4 more points on the loos guage. At this point, I'm going to order all new rigging and start from scratch.
 
Jul 31, 2018
46
Hunter 260 Chapin
The mast is correct. It's the same on my '87. And I was in contact with Hunter last year about the mast foot, or lack thereof on this mast. And they said all was correct. My forstay was almost as closed when we replaced all Rigging last year. I looked for my measurements and I don't still have them.
Thanks. How closed were your shrouds and backstay? Just trying to get a reference.
 

P100D

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Jul 24, 2016
129
Hunter 23 Nashville TN Percy Priest lake
Thanks. How closed were your shrouds and backstay? Just trying to get a reference.
2/3rds shrouds, and about half on backstay. I adjusted mine in the loos guage then marked with electrical tape then removed and sent to riggingonly.com and they had it back to me in 2 weeks. It was around $280 I believe. All new turnbuckles and swaged fittings.
 
Jul 31, 2018
46
Hunter 260 Chapin
2/3rds shrouds, and about half on backstay. I adjusted mine in the loos guage then marked with electrical tape then removed and sent to riggingonly.com and they had it back to me in 2 weeks. It was around $280 I believe. All new turnbuckles and swaged fittings.
Do you recall what you tuned them to on the loos guage? Thanks
 

P100D

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Jul 24, 2016
129
Hunter 23 Nashville TN Percy Priest lake
5/32 cable and go to 20% on the upper and lower shrouds this brings the Forestay to an almost perfect 15%.

In rigging I adjusted the Forestay so mast is vertically first. The top of the mast rakes so I look from the spreaders down. Then adjust the 20% keeping the mast centered. So snug by hand till it is centered then count turns tensioning. Then the Hunter 23 manual says to snug the backstay plus 10 turns. With your backstay adjuster you can go less. And tighten in higher winds.

Hope that makes sense
 
Jul 31, 2018
46
Hunter 260 Chapin
5/32 cable and go to 20% on the upper and lower shrouds this brings the Forestay to an almost perfect 15%.

In rigging I adjusted the Forestay so mast is vertically first. The top of the mast rakes so I look from the spreaders down. Then adjust the 20% keeping the mast centered. So snug by hand till it is centered then count turns tensioning. Then the Hunter 23 manual says to snug the backstay plus 10 turns. With your backstay adjuster you can go less. And tighten in higher winds.

Hope that makes sense
My uppers are at a whopping 7 percent
 

P100D

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Jul 24, 2016
129
Hunter 23 Nashville TN Percy Priest lake
When properly tensioned the boat sails beautifully. I sailed with it too loose before getting a loos guage and after the loos the boat came alive and handles +17knot winds much easier.
 
Jul 31, 2018
46
Hunter 260 Chapin
When properly tensioned the boat sails beautifully. I sailed with it too loose before getting a loos guage and after the loos the boat came alive and handles +17knot winds much easier.
How hard was it to take out the stem balls?