I am in deep trouble! Mayday!

[jd4cm0601]

Let's start this by saying that I'm an idiot and maybe the worst boat owner on the planet. I bought a 1984 Catalina 25 just about six weeks ago. The only thing I have sailed prior is a dinghy. I took it out a few times, watched a ton of you tube videos, and scheduled sailing lessons. I thought I was really doing pretty well. Then this happened...
My son and I were looking for places to take family that would be visiting this coming week. We were trying to find a dockside restaurant. On the way, we were in a channel on the Savannah river and the winds kicked up. We were motoring about 5 knots and hit an underwater jetty off the starboard side. We went to the closest dock, parked overnight, and I went to get the boat the next day.
On my return, I noticed that it was taking on some water. When I got back to my marina, I had it towed to another marina for service. They took it out and found damage to the keel. It has damage at the front towards the bottom where it struck the rocks and had a spot where it was driven backward and caused a leak at the top of the back of the keel. They said that the bolts had been pushed down and to repair it they would have to essentially take it off, fix it and then reattach it to the boat. As you can imagine, they want a fortune to do it. Probably more than I paid for the boat itself. They have since repaired the leak and it's in the water, but now what do I do? Should I try to cover the cost of this repair from them and move forward or quit?
I could use any advice, second opinions, or insight into other solutions. I thought about trying to find another comparable hull and trying to transfer everything over, but I really don't know what I am doing. So that's possible, but challenging. Thanks for listening.
John (feeling adrift)

 

[Kings Gambit]

As you can imagine, they want a fortune to do it. Probably more than I paid for the boat itself. They have since repaired the leak and it's in the water, but now what do I do? Should I try to cover the cost of this repair from them and move forward or quit?
I could use any advice, second opinions, or insight into other solutions. I thought about trying to find another comparable hull and trying to transfer everything over, but I really don't know what I am doing. So that's possible, but challenging. Thanks for listening.
John (feeling adrift)

Are you saying that you have no insurance on the boat for accidental damage?

 

[jd4cm0601]

 

[jd4cm0601]

I was advised to get liability only and was getting my third quote the day this happened.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

From whom are you suggesting you recover the repair cost?

 

[jd4cm0601]

I will be covering all cost of repairs out of pocket, so now what is the best way to proceed? Is there anywhere that I can compare costs for this fix? Are there any other options? I just feel stuck.

 

[Scotty C-M]

We've all made mistakes. Don't beat yourself up. OK, this sounds like an expensive one, but that's just the way it is. Figure out how much it will cost to repair (eithor DIY or hire someone). Then figure out if it's worth it. If not, sell it (with full disclosure) and buy another boat. Yes, continue on with your lessons and hope not to repeat that mistake! Like I said, we've all made mistakes. Sailing is a really great life-style/activity. Keep it up. If it turns out not to be your cup of tea, well then OK. It it does turn out to be your thing, then don't let one mis-step dissuade you from sailing. (again - I'm a big believer in lessons!)


Comparing costs: Get some quotes from several people. Ask around for the names of people to give you those quotes.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Then figure out if it's worth it. If not, sell it (with full disclosure) and buy another boat.

Very true and a realistic approach. OTOH, if you've stopped the leaks, you could choose to just keep sailing, but be honest with the next owner.

So many new boaters find this website but seem to neglect the Catalina Owners Association websites. Like this one for C25s: http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3

You may be able to find help on not only your issue, but local resources that you can depend on, since those skippers have all BTDT.

Here's what a repair like that looks like, although on a larger Catalina:

Rebedding a Keel Stub 101 The Catalina Smile with Pictures

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6842.0.html

Good luck.

 

[jd4cm0601]

Thanks Scotty. I have an estimate from the marina. They called in a structural expert. They are saying about 35 hours for the total repair. Is there any place I can look for additional options? Still considering the idea of getting another hull and starting over, thoughts?

 

[Benny17441]

Replacing the hull is not practical. From your explanation it seems the keel bolts may have compressed the mounting base with the screw holes, perhaps breaking the beading and causing a leak. You indicate the leak was fixed, please indicate how it was done. So the keel is bent where it struck rocks, lets forget about the keel damage for now as after all, let's say, the shape of the keel is not structurally important. The important thing is that the integrity of the hull where the keel hangs is preserved, that the bolts have not been overly stretched and that their holding at the top of the keel has not been compromised. I would not think that the damage from a safety and structural standpoint should require a full costly keel repair. I would remove the bolts, one at a time, inspect it, inspect the holes, check it is strongly threading into the keel and then re-bead with a sealer and tighten to torque specs (don't know them and will let you look for them). If compression has damaged the base a little then SS washers can be used as spacer to fill the gap. I would think that retightening and re-beading the keel bolts should keep your boat seaworthy. A nick at the front of the keel may cause a tiny bit of drag and perhaps deflection but should be insignificant for a pleasure boat. Eventually the keel to hull joint underwater should be examined to see where the sealer may have been broken and re-beaded. It is easy to drift off channel in a windy day, not only do you have to keep your eye on the marker ahead but also need to look back to insure you keep inside with the marker behind you. The thing is when navigation in tight channels it is wise to maintain a slow speed. I have grounded many times but luckily with no damage and I attribute my luck to a slow speed when in proximity of the bottom.

PS. Be weary about expert opinions coming from a shop that has an interest in performing a large repair. If in doubt get a 2nd opinion from your own expert. The keel to hull joint is crucial to safety, cannot understand how a marina could do a temporary repair and let you go on your way if there was a structural damage that could have impaired that safety. In any instance after any repair inspect the keel bolts frequently for tightness.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Benny's advice is well presented. The one thing that should also be investigated is how the keel is mounted to the hull, which I presented in my link. "The Catalina Smile" is an infamous issue across the entire line of boats produced by Catalina. It has been discussed on this and other forums since they invented the internet. That's why I suggested you go to the C25 Forum. They can tell you all about how the keel connects to the hull and what is in between them based on the year of your boat. THEY are the experts in YOUR boat. Please, go there.

 

[jd4cm0601]

Benny,
The marina patched the small crack at the back with fiberglass and put the boat back in the water. Everything that you have said makes sense and I am really hoping that you are correct. That would be awesome. They had the boat in the sling and shook the keel and it moved a little. Then called in their plastics guy and said the repairs would be necessary. I have attached the pics that I took while it was out of the water. They stated that I could putter around in the boat, but to stay out of stronger winds until they could schedule the repair. I would like to try your options before committing to anything further. Is it possible to do it in the water or do I need to pay to have it taken out again? There is no trailer. Here are a couple of pics. Thank you for your help.

 

[jd4cm0601]

Thank you Stu.

 

[mz4wheeler]

Sailing UMA repaired their keel wobble. THEIR keel was scary wobbly.. I wonder if yours compared.

Look at the first video starting at 5:00 minutes

It is possible to fix it yourself, as shown in the above videos.

 

[Franklin]

The boat has to come out of the water.

 

[capta]

Sailing UMA repaired their keel wobble. THEIR keel was scary wobbly.. I wonder if yours compared.

Look at the first video starting at 5:00 minutes

It is possible to fix it yourself, as shown in the above videos.

This guy has already stated that he doesn't know much about boats pretty emphatically, don't you think? Do you really think that this would be the proper repair for him to begin his education in boat repair with?

 

[capta]

I'm sorry for your harsh entry into our sport. Like many above, I think that this is a decision you are going to have to make for yourself. This is a huge repair job that you should let the professionals do, if that is the route you want to take, unless you have lots of experience working with epoxy resins and fiberglass.
My thought is that at least you will know what you have after you have the repairs done on this boat, whereas you might buy another boat with even worse, unseen problems.
You mentioned that the repairs might nearly equal what you already have in the boat, so the likelihood of your selling her unrepaired at a decent price, is poor. If you are in a tax situation where you would benefit from donating it, that might be one way to go. I think that if I liked the boat I'd be tempted to stick with the devil I know rather than one I don't. Good luck.

 

[Kings Gambit]

This guy has already stated that he doesn't know much about boats pretty emphatically, don't you think? Do you really think that this would be the proper repair for him to begin his education in boat repair with?

So, on the subject of learning from our mistakes. Mistake 1) Buying a boat and using it in unfamiliar water w/o insurance and maybe no chart either; Mistake 2) Hitting something hard at speed and causing damage below the water line; Mistake 3?) Trying to fix it on the cheap (DIY) after admitting "but I really don't know what I am doing."

If you "fix it" yourself, in my opinion, you probably won't trust the repair which means you won't feel good about going out in conditions w/family, etc. If you're not going to be able to have fun with the boat, then you're wasting your time and money. So, perhaps better to quit while you're "ahead."

 

[Gunni]

Second to Capta's guidance. Unless this keel damage is fully and properly repaired, the boat is a salvage. That would include any bolts, fiberglass stubs, attaching grids, bonded laminates, keel encapsulation. Critical safety item.

 

[skienuff]

You know, my first sailboat never made into the water. I paid too much for it, it was in bad shape, the running rigging was about useless. The thing is, I learned so much from that original experience. I sold that boat at a huge loss compared to what I paid for it. I chalked the expense up to the cost of an education. No regrets here. A year later I bought a boat much closer to what I now knew I really wanted (do we ever really get exactly what we want?). You're out there sailing and learning. It's a little painful now, but you'll be wiser and better for it. Good luck!