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Wind vane steering Hunter Passage 42

Feb 21, 2014
94
Hunter Passage 42 St Andrews Scotland
Bill, I sure hope you bump into us again here in Beautiful Beaufort by the Bay! Maybe you can stay at our house this time instead of Song of the Sea.

Dan
Dan!!!!!! Its you my good friend Why did I not twig
Everyone, a couple of years ago my daughter was at Washington DC University and I advertised a bed exchange on a yacht, Dan offered me Song of the sea in Beaufort so we hired a car and stayed on Dans Hunter 40 and had a fantastic time. Dan came to Scotland with his wife to stay on Casper What a fantastic time. No sailing one another's yacht, just a live aboard. Hunter owners should give it a try around the world..Great to hear from you Dan and, you've not seen the last of Yvonne and I
 
  • Like
Likes: smokey73
Oct 26, 2010
925
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
Dan!!!!!! Its you my good friend Why did I not twig
Everyone, a couple of years ago my daughter was at Washington DC University and I advertised a bed exchange on a yacht, Dan offered me Song of the sea in Beaufort so we hired a car and stayed on Dans Hunter 40 and had a fantastic time. Dan came to Scotland with his wife to stay on Casper What a fantastic time. No sailing one another's yacht, just a live aboard. Hunter owners should give it a try around the world..Great to hear from you Dan and, you've not seen the last of Yvonne and I
Looking forward to it!!! I don't think I'm up for a transatlantic but I could help you cruise around the Caribbean and up & down the East Coast. Make sure your Air Conditioning is working if you visit the US East Coast in the summer - its very hot and humid. Also - how do you manage the voltage difference? Is your boat 110V AC?
 
Feb 21, 2014
94
Hunter Passage 42 St Andrews Scotland
Very good videos, I will look into them. Thanks you and everyone else that keeps contributing
Looking forward to it!!! I don't think I'm up for a transatlantic but I could help you cruise around the Caribbean and up & down the East Coast. Make sure your Air Conditioning is working if you visit the US East Coast in the summer - its very hot and humid. Also - how do you manage the voltage difference? Is your boat 110V AC?
No Dan, 230/240v. I have a wind turbine, I need to fit solar panels but first, I'd like to buy the wind vane. Yes I remember the heat down your way and that Spanish moss hanging in all the trees with the cant seeamsthose little midgeys that bite. Okay, great to have the conversation. Back to the business at hand
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
1,047
Hunter 30 Snug Harbor, Lake Champlain
If you are concerned about the 110V here in the states, you may wish to pick up a 110-220 transformer in Europe. I could find these easily while living there, but back in the US they are a much more difficult to find item.

I highly recommend the wind vane for your boat. I've only owned those with lines running into the cock pit so am not familiar with those without. I am following this thread with great interest. There is another wind vane highly regarded, typically found down under. Can't think of the name right now but I'll look for it and get back to you.

dj
 
Oct 26, 2010
925
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
I think you're pretty settled on a windvane which is probably a great choice to keep the power drain down. We had no real external power source other than the engine alternator but never really felt the need to run the engine just to charge the batteries, but then again the power drain was minimal. We had paper charts, no GPS or chartplotter, used Dead Reckoning and running shots on the sun along with an occasional VHF radio when we saw a merchant ship to get their position. When we got close enough to land to use a radio direction finder we used that. I know for a fact that there were no lines running from the windvane to the wheel and even with the small windvane rudder it held course very well when the sails were balanced. One good aspect with that setup is that if you need to take the wheel for a squall or short shift in winds, there was nothing you had to do with the windvane. The main rudder easily overpowered the windvane. I don't know with the ones with lines to the wheel if you have to disconnect something or loosen something with the windvane. We called the vane "Hero" and that name was well deserved. I don't think it was the brand of windvane though.
 
  • Helpful
Likes: Will Gilmore
Oct 26, 2010
925
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
Bill, thinking about it a little. Is the windvane really the way to go. You said you were looking at a wind generator as well as solar panels. I think you already have a diesel generator. For that $3000 might you not be better served in inceasing your battery capacity, upping the solar some more than what you were already planning, and maybe adding a "towed electrical generator?" Also maybe increasing your diesel fuel capacity with a bladder tank, etc. What kind of autopilot do you have. Are your sails in good condition so you can balance the sails effectively? We used a winvane because that was the only auto course control we had. With all the other equipment maybe rethinking the approach might be in order? Just thinking outside the box.
 
  • Like
Likes: Will Gilmore
Oct 22, 2014
11,720
CAL 35 Cruiser Portland OR, moored EVERETT WA
Hey @Scallywagger, A fellow on our dock was showing me his Valiant 40. What to my surprise hanging off his stern was a Sailomat Windvane. He had recently purchased the boat. Had not used the vane. It has ropes that are used to turn the wheel for boat steerage. The lines ran from the vane in a loop up the starboard side of the cockpit and to the wheel. There was a engagement disk on the helm wheel to wrap the line around. As the vane is powered it cause the lines to pull the wheel to port or starboard to correct the boats track and keep the wind angle in the sail.

It was more compact than my Monitor vane.
 
Feb 21, 2014
94
Hunter Passage 42 St Andrews Scotland
Hi
Hey @Scallywagger, A fellow on our dock was showing me his Valiant 40. What to my surprise hanging off his stern was a Sailomat Windvane. He had recently purchased the boat. Had not used the vane. It has ropes that are used to turn the wheel for boat steerage. The lines ran from the vane in a loop up the starboard side of the cockpit and to the wheel. There was a engagement disk on the helm wheel to wrap the line around. As the vane is powered it cause the lines to pull the wheel to port or starboard to correct the boats track and keep the wind angle in the sail.

It was more compact than my Monitor vane.
Hi, thats good of you to message..If your about again you might take a picture..I just feel my cockpit is a bit far from the stern and I would rather have no ropes.Also my transom might be a bit difficult to mount a winvane. I have emailed sailomat to see what they come up with. Have a look at the attached photo. Thanks for now. Bill
 

Attachments

Feb 21, 2014
94
Hunter Passage 42 St Andrews Scotland
Oka
If you are concerned about the 110V here in the states, you may wish to pick up a 110-220 transformer in Europe. I could find these easily while living there, but back in the US they are a much more difficult to find item.

I highly recommend the wind vane for your boat. I've only owned those with lines running into the cock pit so am not familiar with those without. I am following this thread with great interest. There is another wind vane highly regarded, typically found down under. Can't think of the name right now but I'll look for it and get back to you.

dj
Okay, thanks for the advice about the transformer, I'll look into that. Perhaps the down under might be the Pacific Wind Pilot? I have sent of a few emails to companies. Thanks very much
 
Feb 21, 2014
94
Hunter Passage 42 St Andrews Scotland
I think you're pretty settled on a windvane which is probably a great choice to keep the power drain down. We had no real external power source other than the engine alternator but never really felt the need to run the engine just to charge the batteries, but then again the power drain was minimal. We had paper charts, no GPS or chartplotter, used Dead Reckoning and running shots on the sun along with an occasional VHF radio when we saw a merchant ship to get their position. When we got close enough to land to use a radio direction finder we used that. I know for a fact that there were no lines running from the windvane to the wheel and even with the small windvane rudder it held course very well when the sails were balanced. One good aspect with that setup is that if you need to take the wheel for a squall or short shift in winds, there was nothing you had to do with the windvane. The main rudder easily overpowered the windvane. I don't know with the ones with lines to the wheel if you have to disconnect something or loosen something with the windvane. We called the vane "Hero" and that name was well deserved. I don't think it was the brand of windvane though.
I dont have the generator in my Passage 42 but I find the engine is an excellent generator for an hour or so each day to run the autohelm 600. The batteries have taken me across the N Sea 52- 60 hours on autopilot and nav equipment without ever starting the engine. Try and find out what sort of pilot Hero was. All very exciting stuff this
 
Feb 21, 2014
94
Hunter Passage 42 St Andrews Scotland
Bill, thinking about it a little. Is the windvane really the way to go. You said you were looking at a wind generator as well as solar panels. I think you already have a diesel generator. For that $3000 might you not be better served in inceasing your battery capacity, upping the solar some more than what you were already planning, and maybe adding a "towed electrical generator?" Also maybe increasing your diesel fuel capacity with a bladder tank, etc. What kind of autopilot do you have. Are your sails in good condition so you can balance the sails effectively? We used a winvane because that was the only auto course control we had. With all the other equipment maybe rethinking the approach might be in order? Just thinking outside the box.
I have the wind turbine but, it is not always turning in light winds. I have the autopilot 6000 and, although it has been thoroughly reliable, I just don't feel happy relying on it for 5000+ miles from Scotland, down the Atlantic and across. Yes, I would fir additional tanks for water and fuel.
 
Aug 18, 2018
27
Hunter 410 Windpilot MDR
Sailomat did make the 3040 model (no lines to wheel)which had its auxiliary rudder driven by a servo pendulum. Production stopped many years ago, getting parts/ a complete used unit that fits may be difficult. Not sure they sell new units at all right now.
A Windpilot Pacific plus uses the same auxilluary rudder system and is still in production.
I use a regular Pacific model, lines go to my wheel, really simple and straightforward. Our transom should be very close. It would work on your boat.
0427191421a.jpg

0427191425.jpg
 
Feb 21, 2014
94
Hunter Passage 42 St Andrews Scotland
Hel
Sailomat did make the 3040 model (no lines to wheel)which had its auxiliary rudder driven by a servo pendulum. Production stopped many years ago, getting parts/ a complete used unit that fits may be difficult. Not sure they sell new units at all right now.
A Windpilot Pacific plus uses the same auxilluary rudder system and is still in production.
I use a regular Pacific model, lines go to my wheel, really simple and straightforward. Our transom should be very close. It would work on your boat.
View attachment 174961
View attachment 174962
Hello. Yes that would work and, there is one on ebay UK used only several times £2850. I would like to try and get one without the strings but, that may be the only option, rope to the wheel. I'm getting there
 
Oct 26, 2010
925
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
Bill, 0% chance of me finding out the brand of "hero" we used as the skipper has long since taken his final sail into the sunset. That Chrysler was a pretty small sailboat relatively speaking with a lot less displacement so I am wondering if a windvane that uses only the auxiliary rudder concept (not turning the main rudder) would be practical on a boat in excess of 2 1/2 tons? I am sure the manufactuers of those have the specs though and its easy enough to determine that. The Cape Horn model shown earlier seems (from the video) to connect directly to the rudder quadrant if I'm seeing the video correclty so the line runs would be a lot shorter and wouldn't clutter the cockpit.

Rethinking my "out of the box" the biggest advantage of the windvane steering in addition to the 0 power draw is the ability to have a reliable method of auto-course control should you suffer a loss of power or electric autopilot event such that you were thrust into a hand steering mode for such a long transit. Other than eliminating the "clutter" effect of the lines to the wheel, the biggest "safety gain" would be for a windvane that doesn't use the main rudder at all since if your failure was in the wheel drive, cables or quadrant, etc. the windvane would still be usable. If it uses the main rudder, then any failure in that system that rendered it unusable would make the windvane unusable?

Would it be practical to install a windvane style with the lines to the wheel and then unrig the lines and stow them so that if you needed them in the event of an electric autopilot failure you could hand steer until it was practical to rig the lines and go on with the windvane? In that way, the windvane becomes an pre-installed "emergency autopilot" and you're not dealing with the line clutter for the entire transit. If as you go along you find the conditions are such that you're uncomfortable with the power usage, can't start the engine to recharge the battery, the solar panels fail and the wind is too light to turn the wind turbine (a lot of unrelated failures) you go old school and sail on with the windvane, paper charts, a sextant, handheld VHF, sat radio, or two to hail the passing merchant and a prayer? :pray: (WOW, that is what we did on the Chrysler in 78/79 time frame minus the sat radio of course)
 
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Feb 21, 2014
94
Hunter Passage 42 St Andrews Scotland
Bill, 0% chance of me finding out the brand of "hero" we used as the skipper has long since taken his final sail into the sunset. That Chrysler was a pretty small sailboat relatively speaking with a lot less displacement so I am wondering if a windvane that uses only the auxiliary rudder concept (not turning the main rudder) would be practical on a boat in excess of 2 1/2 tons? I am sure the manufactuers of those have the specs though and its easy enough to determine that. The Cape Horn model shown earlier seems (from the video) to connect directly to the rudder quadrant if I'm seeing the video correclty so the line runs would be a lot shorter and wouldn't clutter the cockpit.

Rethinking my "out of the box" the biggest advantage of the windvane steering in addition to the 0 power draw is the ability to have a reliable method of auto-course control should you suffer a loss of power or electric autopilot event such that you were thrust into a hand steering mode for such a long transit. Other than eliminating the "clutter" effect of the lines to the wheel, the biggest "safety gain" would be for a windvane that doesn't use the main rudder at all since if your failure was in the wheel drive, cables or quadrant, etc. the windvane would still be usable. If it uses the main rudder, then any failure in that system that rendered it unusable would make the windvane unusable?

Would it be practical to install a windvane style with the lines to the wheel and then unrig the lines and stow them so that if you needed them in the event of an electric autopilot failure you could hand steer until it was practical to rig the lines and go on with the windvane? In that way, the windvane becomes an pre-installed "emergency autopilot" and you're not dealing with the line clutter for the entire transit. If as you go along you find the conditions are such that you're uncomfortable with the power usage, can't start the engine to recharge the battery, the solar panels fail and the wind is too light to turn the wind turbine (a lot of unrelated failures) you go old school and sail on with the windvane, paper charts, a sextant, handheld VHF, sat radio, or two to hail the passing merchant and a prayer? :pray: (WOW, that is what we did on the Chrysler in 78/79 time frame minus the sat radio of course)
Wow Dan, that was a lot to take in..I had to read it a couple of times. Yes I do understand all of what you have said. I see below the aft berth in Casper there is an emergency steering tiller for the socket on the aft deck in the event of steering cable failure. I do take note of what you have said and that of others. I have emailed Sailomat and Windpilot Capehorn with pictures of the passage 42, I will see what they come back with..Needless to say I have not discussed this expense with my wifebut, it is a relatively cheap cost to open up the world to ones cruising. I took one Hell of a battering with Casper approaching the South Coast of Norway in July 2018 with water flooding down the vents and into the navigation area and, the galley so, I am a little prepared for what can be thrown at me travelling further afield..A good pilot is the way to go
 
Oct 26, 2010
925
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
Bill, I am sure you already have been to this site but just in case you haven't here is a link to the Cape Horn website with a list of the boats its been installed on, including several Hunters and quite a few others with the scoop stern so it should be well within their wheelhouse. Seems like they do a lot of custom work.


It is a pretty penny though and I would imagine the installation with it hooking directly into the main quadrant is up there too but what's a few extra boat bucks for piece of mind. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it) I don't have a horse in this race but am watching with interest how you approach this. I see by your videos that you have a below deck drive for your Autohelm or Raymarine 6000. Is it hydraulic, linear or an electric rotary drive? Just curious.
 
Feb 21, 2014
94
Hunter Passage 42 St Andrews Scotland
It is I believe hydraulic and since buying Casper in 2013 it has steered Casper 12 times over the N Sea and around the Baltic states clocking up 9500 in those years pritty much with me as a passenger. Great bit of kit. Yes, I am also interested to see how this pans out although, I can not promise everyone that I will purchase in the very near future but, I am looking. Scallywagger
 
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Oct 19, 2017
6,012
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
wondering if a windvane that uses only the auxiliary rudder concept (not turning the main rudder) would be practical on a boat in excess of 2 1/2 tons?
No problems there, with the right model, of course. We crossed the Atlantic in a Shannon 50 using one. No issues, even beating hard on 30 knot winds.

A couple of important advantages to a wind vane, is redundancy to the autopilot and simplicity of repair. No circuitry to go bad, etc. Unless a storm takes a major portion of it away, most of the parts are diy serviceable.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Feb 21, 2014
94
Hunter Passage 42 St Andrews Scotland
No problems there, with the right model, of course. We crossed the Atlantic in a Shannon 50 using one. No issues, even beating hard on 30 knot winds.

A couple of important advantages to a wind vane, is redundancy to the autopilot and simplicity of repair. No circuitry to go bad, etc. Unless a storm takes a major portion of it away, most of the parts are diy serviceable.

-Will (Dragonfly)
Yes Will, at 61 years of age I have read almost every sailing book I have been able to get my hands on and the issue of heavy rolling stern seas have amongst broaching and roll overs, been many the cause of damages to windvanes. Bill