That is correct. Once you uncleat a loaded sheet all bets are off. Be ready to drop that sheet and NEVER wrap any line around your hand for a better grip.
Winch handle safe use
- Thread starter stickinthemud57
- Start date
Good ones…IMHO, the two most dangerous pieces of equipment on a boat, besides the captain, are the winches and the windlass. Keep your fingers away. …Just be safe.
Not a piece of equipment per say but I’d add keeping all body parts inside the gunwale as you approach the dock.
Reading through this thread takes me back to my previous boats and also makes me appreciate my current boat all the more. Which self-tailing primary winches, I do not even have cleats at the winch to tie off the genoa sheet. The self-tailer is the cleat. As for removing the handle, it lives locked into the winch socket until it is needed elsewhere.
I know of at least two electric powered boats on Youtube (Sailing Uma and Beau and Brandy Sailing) that have a pair of the EasySea flip down winches mounted in each of their primary winches that are never removed and have been there for many thousands of open ocean miles under sail.
In 25-years of sailing with the winch handle in the working winch I have only had the winch not hold one time when the pawl did not catch and I needed to cross sheet the line to the other side. That incident was due to my ashamedly terrible maintenance of never servicing the winch in the first 13-years of ownership. I now service them at least every other year.
I know of at least two electric powered boats on Youtube (Sailing Uma and Beau and Brandy Sailing) that have a pair of the EasySea flip down winches mounted in each of their primary winches that are never removed and have been there for many thousands of open ocean miles under sail.
In 25-years of sailing with the winch handle in the working winch I have only had the winch not hold one time when the pawl did not catch and I needed to cross sheet the line to the other side. That incident was due to my ashamedly terrible maintenance of never servicing the winch in the first 13-years of ownership. I now service them at least every other year.
Yes, this is the ideal scenario (let the jib backwind before the release), but for now I need to get my inexperienced crew to just not screw things up! Finer points will come later.
What you are saying mirrors the words of my coach, and make sense.
There is a reason they include springs in the service kit. They have a limited lifespan. If you do what is considered at least yearly maintenance on your winches, chances are, you will notice potential failures before they happen. We liked to tear them down, soak every part in diesel and clean as the day it was made. That way we can inspect every single part and replace it if there is any question it might fail. For instance, one might conclude a bearing race that just doesn't "feel" right could lead to spindle wear, which could cause gear failure, Et al. In our case, our Lewmar 65st winches could, at one time or another, actually pulling 77,000#+ dead-weight, plus current.
While you are at it, don't forget your bi-annual maintenance on your windlass, even if you don't use it much. Often being relegated to that lonely spot on the pointy end, even without use (or perhaps even because of lack of use), it is out in the elements, and seems to get missed on wash down.
With my non ST I kept them wrapped all the he time with the handle in place. With my ST I tend to do the same thing on light wind days and “store” them on my smaller winches just to the stern of the genie winches on heavy wind days because I don’t want any hindrance in getting the sheet locked in.
No absolutes, guys. On quick racing boats you hold the jib until it breaks, but you do NOT let it backwind. That just slows the boat. Don't believe me, watch some top-level racing video. I'm talking about boats that can get through the turn in just a few seconds. I'm not saying you let the sheets fly and flog into knots. You will be hauling across immediately. Also bear in mind that these jibs typically have little overlap.
I always "heard" about holding the jib on beach cats. Nope, that is slow and only done when the technique is otherwise poor or on certain slow turning cats.
I always "heard" about holding the jib on beach cats. Nope, that is slow and only done when the technique is otherwise poor or on certain slow turning cats.
Interesting. My dad touted backwinding in a tack as a way to get the bow through the wind more quickly, which makes sense. On the other hand, in anything but the lightest wind, a proper turn of the rudder will do that. I could see maybe doing it in extremely low wind where the boat may not have the needed momentum. Thanks for that perspective.
The more common case is steep winds that are stopping the boat. But with most boats keeping more speed will get you through the turn faster. Being properly trimmed for speed at the start is important. Getting the jib in the moment it can pull helps the boat through the turn more than anything, and backwinding can delay this. The rate of turn should increase as the boat slows. Easing the main just a bit at head to wind often helps, by reducing the force pushing the boat into irons, easing the boat through the turn, and by helping the boat accelerate out of the tack. But every boat and every set of conditions requires a slight adjustment.
Exception would be unruly children. They make great fenders. /s
While I normally do not leave the winch handle in the winch unless it's being used, like every rule in sailing, there are exceptions.
Just the other day I was bashing into steep waves, single handed. I needed to get through tacks quickly, get powered up quickly, and get trimmed quickly to avoid the waves killing my speed. In this case, my "ready about" procedure was verify the lazy sheet was ready with 3 wraps (no self tailing); center the traveler; insert the winch handle; take the tiller off auto pilot; take the working sheet off the cleat and tack. After tacking; I pulled the new working sheet in as far as I could by hand while falling off a little to regain speed; get the tiller back on auto pilot; move the traveller upwind; trim the new sheet with the winch handle that was already in place; trim the helm; remove the winch handle. I found that the 2 seconds I saved by having the winch handle in place made a significant difference in avoiding the waves knocking me backwards.
You can save yet another step in those conditions if instead of centering the traveler and then pulling it back up later, just drop it all the way first and it will be "up" after the tack.
I do this when I am single-handing because it is one fewer "strength" tasks to do. If I have crew, I will have the mainsail trimmer leave the car where it is at the tack and trim it up as the boat speed increases and genoa is sheeted into its final trim. If the main is sheeted all the way in and the boat is still below target and the genoa is not fully sheeted, the mail will stall and not provide the power to accelerate as well as it could.
As helmsman, I will steer slightly low and come up as the sail comes in and speed goes up.
This sounds like the procedure I envision. In response to some of the traveler suggestions, my prep is to cleat off the lazy side of the traveller where it is and not try to pre-trim the main. Once the tack is completed, I trim the main. This makes for a more gradual transition to close-hauled.
I have a session with my coach tomorrow. It will be interesting to get his take on all of this.
Normally I would drop it all the way before the tack or wait until after the tack, but in this particular case of bashing into steep chop, I found that if I drop the traveller all the way before the tack, I lose too much speed. If I wait until after the tack it takes too long to power back up. Centering the traveller was a good compromise. Of course if I had crew, it would be during the tack.
Proper traveler position and how to bring it back up is one of those things that is boat and condition specific. No absolutes.
I've raced and cruised a lot of multihulls. It is seldom useful to have the traveler above center, and is nearly always wrong in waves. In part this is because they are faster pointing a little lower, which is true of most shoal keel cruising boats as well. Also, because multihulls slow quickly in the tack, it is nearly always faster to drop the traveler (or ease the sheet) just a little and then squeeze it back in quickly after the tack. You will be back up to full speed faster than footing and then pointing. Also, for the singlehander using autotack, it is one less operation (no need to reset course, only to yank on one rope).
No absolutes. Experiment. Every boat I have owned, and every boat I have crewed on, had different "best ways." And it depends on the weather. My moderate-to-light procedure and my heavy air procedures are slightly different.
I've raced and cruised a lot of multihulls. It is seldom useful to have the traveler above center, and is nearly always wrong in waves. In part this is because they are faster pointing a little lower, which is true of most shoal keel cruising boats as well. Also, because multihulls slow quickly in the tack, it is nearly always faster to drop the traveler (or ease the sheet) just a little and then squeeze it back in quickly after the tack. You will be back up to full speed faster than footing and then pointing. Also, for the singlehander using autotack, it is one less operation (no need to reset course, only to yank on one rope).
No absolutes. Experiment. Every boat I have owned, and every boat I have crewed on, had different "best ways." And it depends on the weather. My moderate-to-light procedure and my heavy air procedures are slightly different.
My wife got me foldable winch for Father's day. it comes in handy when we race or when you single hand.
www.nshoresailing.com
EasySea Flipper-North Shore Sailing
Home of the Easysea Flipper, the last winch handle you'll ever need. Featuring a universal star stud to fit any winch, the flipper handle is made to last. A frame made with CNC milled 6082 anticorodal aluminum and joints made with stainless steel 316L
www.nshoresailing.com
They rather end the debate for you as to whether you leave them in the winch or put them in a holder.My wife got me foldable winch for Father's day. it comes in handy when we race or when you single hand.
EasySea Flipper-North Shore Sailing
Home of the Easysea Flipper, the last winch handle you'll ever need. Featuring a universal star stud to fit any winch, the flipper handle is made to last. A frame made with CNC milled 6082 anticorodal aluminum and joints made with stainless steel 316L
Perhaps. It would be interesting to see how that handle would behave if a pawl gave way and set the winch to spinning.
I have never had that happen in 30-years of sailing. I did have a stuck pawl once but it was readily apparent as I was cranking the winch and there was no way that I could release it without it flying back at me. That situation happened while the the handle was in use so does not apply to this debate. It was caused by a total lack of maintenance on my part by not servicing the winches for the first many years of ownership.
Based on observation of the innards of the winches, I cannot see any way that a broken pawl would ever cause the winch handle to fly backwards. If the pawl breaks, it will still fill the void and jamb things up. It would need to disappear to allow it to backspin.
For me, on my boat, I prefer to leave the locking handle in the working winch, and I service the winches regularly to make sure they function as they aught.
That said, on my previous boats which did not have self-tailing, and I did not have locking handles, I always put the handle into a pocket when not cranking on it.