Winch handle safe use

Jan 19, 2010
12,548
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
As to your assertion that "the whole world does it one way", my experience, and apparently jssailem's, differs.
Well if you are going to store it in the winch may I suggest the following life hack... get some pipe insulation and zip tie it around the handle. That way, when a flying jib sheet grabs it and flings it overboard, you can practice an MOB maneuver and retrieve it.

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It comes in red and green... so maybe you want two winch handles and you can color code them for shucks and grins.
 
Oct 6, 2007
1,107
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
I hand tack quickly with one or two wraps on the winch to minimize the chance of an over wrap. Then I add one or two wraps and secure the sheet in the self tailer. Only then do I put the handle in the winch to further trim the genoa. Having the handle in at the start of the tack interferes with getting those addition wraps around the drum quickly. After trimming, the winch handle immediately goes back into its holder on the pedestal, which is within easy reach from either side of the cockpit. I’m doing this solo and am not ashamed to admit that it took me a few years to get solo tacking down to were it usually (Still not always.) goes smoothly.
The delay of a water ballast is a wrinkle I can offer no wisdom about. As for your crew taking too long, that can be solved a consistent methodical approach, clear communication, and practice. Lots of practice.
 
Apr 11, 2020
766
MacGregor 26s Scott's Landing, Grapevine TX
To the previous two posts:

@rgranger: I have a floating winch handle and a spare floating winch handle. That said, we really do need to practice MOB procedure! Nice hack. Actually, I have a pool noodle on my whisker pole for that reason.

@Dalliance: You make an excellent point regarding timing. Done right, a tack will require no cranking on the winch. My crew is green, so timing has yet to be fully developed. Practice may indeed prove my inquiry moot.

Mentions of self-tailing winches leave me in envy. Having those would simplify things, but boy, are they costly!
 
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Jul 19, 2013
387
Pearson 31-2 Boston
Depends on whether racing or not.

If racing, prepare the lazy winch with handle in and two turns on the drum. During the tack, the trimmer hand trims as quickly as possible. As the sheet loads up, a second crew member cranks most of the remainder of the sheet, then steps away so the trimmer can add another two turns and use the winch to fine tune the sail trim.

If not racing, winch handle out and two turns on the drum, During the tack, the trimmer hand trims until the sheet loads up. Then adds two turns to the drum, inserts the winch handle, and use the winch to fine tune the sail trim.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Original question:
When handling jib sheets when tacking, is it a good idea or bad idea to place the winch handle in what will be the active (leeward) winch before executing the tack?
I think not a good idea.
You are incorrect in saying that doing it in this order would create two cycles of handling. In either case, the winch handle comes out of the boot, into the winch, and back in the boot where it stays until the next tack. Just once. Not twice.
I should have stated more clearly that "handling" twice meant letting go of the handle and then re-acquiring a grip on it. When I trim I pick up the handle, insert it into the winch, crank, and then take it out and return it to the holder, without ever letting go of it. Handling once.
As to your assertion that "the whole world does it one way", my experience, and apparently jssailem's, differs.
Well, I guess we could do a broad survey, but I would be that the vast majority of folks don't put the handle in before the tack, for a whole bunch of reasons.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,124
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Good idea. I know a couple people using Winchers on Catalina 30’s here on Lake Michigan.
Well if you really want to slow things down, then winchers are the perfect addition. They will not work as self tailers because they will not strip the line off the drum. They will self tail for perhaps 1/2 turn, and they will not even do that unless the drum is fully loaded which is more than 3 turns. It's more like 4 or 5. The biggest similarity they have to a self tailing wnch is they have the jaws on the rim that can be used to cleat the line. But that's pretty much it. Now, especially on a 26 foot boat most of your sheet handling is going to be hand stripping in the line as you bring in the slack while the WIND pushes the sail across the foredeck, So putting the winch handle in ahead of time is literally a waste of time, The only time I winch in the sheet on my 27 footer is when I'm fine tuning the trim as I settle the boat on it's desired course.
So, my suggestion is to learn the proper way to tack your boat and just keep thje handle handy for when it's needed. If you put it in ahead of time the handle will spin in place while you;re hand stripping in the line. NOT good form.
Never try to pull the sail cross the deck with the sheet. When you begin the tack, ease the sheet 6 to 12 inches,.. let the sail back wind a bit to push the bow around, This is the sign of an experienced crew, he is helping turn the boat, which requires less rudder action by the helmsman keeping boat speed up.
When the boom comes across, the crew releases the sheet by pulling it straight up, off the winch completely,. the new sheet can be cheated in to remove slack just be fore full release, but once release, the crew on the new side can hand strip the sheet in much more quickly while there's no load. A winch handle becomes a serious obstacle when doing this. If you have self tailers the handle will impede your motion to load the jaw ring..

Rather than spending money on winchers, I suggest installing cam cleats on risers about a foot behind the winch. This allows you so easily release the sheet from across the cockpit if you're short handed. It also keeps the line at a higher exit lever from the drum, improving efficiency when cleating and uncleating. Finally, and this is really important, for proper headsail handling, NO fairleads or captive devices on the cleats, and absolutely no cleats or fairleads ahead of the winch between the jib lead or turning block and the winch. The sheet must be free to run when it is released from the winch.... good luck.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,904
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
The biggest similarity they have to a self tailing winch is they have the jaws on the rim that can be used to cleat the line.
An oft repeated fallacy of how they should be used. Joe & I have had this discussion before, I like them, he doesn't. His cam cleat idea is very good, too.
 
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Apr 11, 2020
766
MacGregor 26s Scott's Landing, Grapevine TX
Original question:

I think not a good idea.

I should have stated more clearly that "handling" twice meant letting go of the handle and then re-acquiring a grip on it. When I trim I pick up the handle, insert it into the winch, crank, and then take it out and return it to the holder, without ever letting go of it. Handling once.

Well, I guess we could do a broad survey, but I would be that the vast majority of folks don't put the handle in before the tack, for a whole bunch of reasons.
Thanks for those clarifications. Your response makes much more sense now.
 
Oct 6, 2007
1,107
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
Well if you really want to slow things down, then winchers are the perfect addition. They will not work as self tailers because they will not strip the line off the drum. They will self tail for perhaps 1/2 turn, and they will not even do that unless the drum is fully loaded which is more than 3 turns. It's more like 4 or 5. The biggest similarity they have to a self tailing wnch is they have the jaws on the rim that can be used to cleat the line. But that's pretty much it. Now, especially on a 26 foot boat most of your sheet handling is going to be hand stripping in the line as you bring in the slack while the WIND pushes the sail across the foredeck, So putting the winch handle in ahead of time is literally a waste of time, The only time I winch in the sheet on my 27 footer is when I'm fine tuning the trim as I settle the boat on it's desired course.
So, my suggestion is to learn the proper way to tack your boat and just keep thje handle handy for when it's needed. If you put it in ahead of time the handle will spin in place while you;re hand stripping in the line. NOT good form.
Never try to pull the sail cross the deck with the sheet. When you begin the tack, ease the sheet 6 to 12 inches,.. let the sail back wind a bit to push the bow around, This is the sign of an experienced crew, he is helping turn the boat, which requires less rudder action by the helmsman keeping boat speed up.
When the boom comes across, the crew releases the sheet by pulling it straight up, off the winch completely,. the new sheet can be cheated in to remove slack just be fore full release, but once release, the crew on the new side can hand strip the sheet in much more quickly while there's no load. A winch handle becomes a serious obstacle when doing this. If you have self tailers the handle will impede your motion to load the jaw ring..

Rather than spending money on winchers, I suggest installing cam cleats on risers about a foot behind the winch. This allows you so easily release the sheet from across the cockpit if you're short handed. It also keeps the line at a higher exit lever from the drum, improving efficiency when cleating and uncleating. Finally, and this is really important, for proper headsail handling, NO fairleads or captive devices on the cleats, and absolutely no cleats or fairleads ahead of the winch between the jib lead or turning block and the winch. The sheet must be free to run when it is released from the winch.... good luck.
Very good description of proper tacking sequence.
I agree with you that Winchers are a poor substitute for self tailing winches. However, I think they can help when a single person is both tailing and winching because they free up both hands to get the winch handle in place and because manually stripping the sheet is easier than tailing a loaded sheet with one arm while winching with the other. With two crew members; one tailing the line and the other winching, they’re of no use. Also, I would never trust a Wincher as a substitute for cleating the line.
 
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Apr 11, 2020
766
MacGregor 26s Scott's Landing, Grapevine TX
A helpful person PM'ing me has made me aware of a lapse in specificity in my terminology. I have at least once used the term "cleat" when what I have installed on my boat are "cam cleats".
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,391
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Wow! A lot of pent up feelings on tacking technique.
Joe's post regarding tacking is very good. I would emphasize it by adding that the secret to a good tack is the release. Some let the sheet go too soon when you need to let the sail backwind (for an instant). The sail will just flog unnecessarily. The sail should flog just a bit as the bow crosses the wind especially with a 135 or 110. Others let the sheet go too late when the sail is already filled and the trimmer has to fight that to trim it in.
With a good release the new trimmer basically takes up the slack but does not drag the clew over to the other side. I admit it is more difficult with a 150% but the goal of using as little winch as possible is the same. For the 150%, the helmsman has to adjust his technique. It is better to take a course that is not pointing on the new tack and allow the trimmer to finish as the boat gains speed. Just setting a close hauled course and waiting for the trimmer to finish is slow.
The OP might want to look at cross sheeting to keep the trimmer on the high side. It can be effective but adds confusion - so a lot of practice is necessary.
 
May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
I’d guess the common failure mode of pawls is spring failure making them not “pop out” when actively winching
I've never had a spring break but that is certainly possible. Mine get kinda gunked up after a while and won't spring properly. I don't use any heavy lube on them, just a light coating of light oil like sewing machine oil.
 
Oct 6, 2007
1,107
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
I've never had a spring break but that is certainly possible. Mine get kinda gunked up after a while and won't spring properly. I don't use any heavy lube on them, just a light coating of light oil like sewing machine oil.
I don’t recall ever having a broken spring either. Escaped springs during maintenance are another story. I’ve been using Lewmar Pawl Oil on mine, which is likely rebranded sewing machine oil or the like that I paid double for 15 or 20 years ago before I knew any better. Oh well. It only takes a drop or two per pawl, so I have a lifetime supply.
 
Last edited:

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,717
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I grab the free end of the Jib sheet, and PULL, while the Admiral Cranks the winch with the handle.

She appreciates my back power, when I am at the helm.;)

Jim...
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,124
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
An oft repeated fallacy of how they should be used. Joe & I have had this discussion before, I like them, he doesn't. His cam cleat idea is very good, too.
heh, heh.... it has, and always will be an ongoing FRIENDLY quarrel between us :D.... we have accepted that what works for one sailor may not work for another/ However, the differences of opinion always lead to productive discussions on sail handling and other interesting, valuable topics. The original question here, about when to install the winch handle, quickly evolved to a very informative discussion ..........showing again why these forums help us all become better sailors.
 
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May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
There are several take-aways from this thread, but I feel the most important is safety. IMHO, the two most dangerous pieces of equipment on a boat, besides the captain, are the winches and the windlass. Keep your fingers away. When I race, which is seldom, I try to have at least a somewhat seasoned crew on the sheets. When out for a day sail with the Admiral, I might take a more relaxed approach. Just be safe. :)
 
May 17, 2004
5,445
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I’d guess the common failure mode of pawls is spring failure making them not “pop out” when actively winching,
I should clarify - when I was typing I was thinking about the pawls failing to pop out due to spring failure, sticky grease, corrosion, etc. I just forgot to type the other reasons. In any case those things would only apply when the winch is spinning, not when it’s static with the line cleated.