Winch handle safe use

[stickinthemud57]

At the expense of exposing my ignorance, I'm going to pose a question:

When handling jib sheets when tacking, is it a good idea or bad idea to place the winch handle in what will be the active (leeward) winch before executing the tack?

In practice yesterday, my jib sheet handlers would first haul in the jib sheet, cleat it off, insert the winch handle, then trim the jib. I am wondering if there is any reason to not go ahead and insert the handle in what will become the leeward winch immediately prior to executing the tack. It seems to me it would make for a quicker operation with less fumbling around during that crucial process.

Of course, leaving the handle in the winch when it is not needed is not considered a good idea by most, and I agree, but I am not seeing the downside to inserting it immediately before executing a tack.

I look forward to thoughts and comments!

 

[BigEasy]

I am wondering if there is any reason to not go ahead and insert the handle in what will become the leeward winch immediately prior to executing the tack. It seems to me it would make for a quicker operation with less fumbling around during that crucial process.
I am not seeing the downside to inserting it immediately before executing a tack.

I am a cruising sailor; my opinion may be different from racers. When I tack, in light to moderate winds, I have two wraps on the drum to haul in the sheet as quickly as possible, by hand only. Then a third wrap is added & locked into the self tail on the winch. At that time I insert the winch for final adjustment, which is usually minimal. If an override occurs or if the sheet fouls, I wouldn’t want the winch handle in the way to impede clearing the problem. With a non locking handle it would be possible to pop the handle out of the winch, possibly causing an injury or losing the handle while clearing a problem.So, I have the handle close by when I am ready to start grinding.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

How much time does it take to insert the handle in a winch?

A winch handle can interfere with quickly winding a sheet around the winch

 

[jssailem]

I am not seeing the downside to inserting it immediately before executing a tack.

Some boat owners have tried this. Some stick with it.
My opinion is to locate the winch handle in a pocket near the winch but not obstructing the use/access to the winch.
Your tacking timing is based on keeping speed not just slamming the boat over and yanking in the sail on the new tack.
Your crew should be able to get control the sheet by hand if your timing of direction change at the helm and the crew actions on the sheet are coordinated.

• Prepare the crew for action announcing prepare to tack.
• Get conformation from the crew that they are ready. The sheets are ready to be released and 2 wraps on the winch to be drawn in as the sail goes through the foredeck.
• Command "Helms a- Lee" initiate your tack. As the bow goes through the wind the jib sheet is released, the sail moves to the new tack (the lee) and crew immediately draws the sheet in taught on the winch adding a 3rd wrap as the boat starts on the new tack.

The Crew can secure in self tailing winch or if not self tailing one crew holds the tail and the other crew uses the handle to add tension as needed.

Not having the winch handle in the winch means you can quickly free the sheet from the winch should you have to reverse your action.

 

[Stu Jackson]

It all depends on hard hard the wind is blowing. I've done both, and I admit I have left the handle in on a "finished" winch 'cuz sometimes I want further adjustments, sometimes in sometimes out.

 

[Davidasailor26]

For me the handle is too much of an obstruction when adding wraps for final trimming. I don’t want to have too many wraps on when first sheeting in fast to avoid an , but then it takes an extra turn or two for fine trim. After final trimming I leave the handle in until just before the next tack, so it’s ready for any small adjustments. Our winch handles lock in the winches so there’s no fear of it getting bumped out.

 

[rgranger]

... but I am not seeing the downside to inserting it immediately before executing a tack.

They don't float???

 

[kappykaplan]

I have two wraps on the drum to haul in the sheet as quickly as possible, by hand only. Then a third wrap is added & locked into the self tail on the winch. At that time I insert the winch for final adjustment,

Same here. I was taught to always remove the winch handle when done winching.

 

[capta]

I never leave a winch handle in the winch when I'm operating a winch.
It must always be in its sheath and handy for quick use IE; waking sleeping crew members who are on night watch.

 

[stickinthemud57]

Thanks for the responses! Excellent food for thought.

 

[kappykaplan]

waking sleeping crew members who are on night watch.

Love it!

 

[Roland5048]

I've always taught my beginner sailing students to always remove the handle when not in use. Reason being that when you uncleat a loaded line and a pawl should be stuck, the drum and handle will spin CCW very fast. You don't want to be hit with that spinning handle.

 

[jviss]

when you uncleat a loaded line and a pawl should be stuck, the drum and handle will spin CCW very fast

This ^^^

 

[kappykaplan]

that when you uncleat a loaded line and a pawl should be stuck, the drum and handle will spin CCW very fast. You don't want to be hit with that spinning handle.

 

[jviss]

I had a winch fail due to a broken bronze gear, and if there was a handle in it, it would have been deadly.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Interesting points about the danger of winch failure with the handle in. I hadn’t heard that before but it’s thought provoking so I guess I learned something today.

I’d guess the common failure mode of pawls is spring failure making them not “pop out” when actively winching, so I’m personally not worried about that in the case of releasing a line from a cleat. Jviss’s example of a broken gear is pretty concerning though.

 

[stickinthemud57]

There seems to be some confusion, so allow me to clarify. As mentioned in the OP, I would NOT leave the winch handle in place after tacking. I am exploring the pro's and con's of placing it in the the windward winch immediately before tacking rather than after tacking. The handle would be removed immediately once any necessary adjustment of the jib sheet has been done.

Big Easy mentions the practice of using two wraps for hand-hauling and a third for winching. I can see having the winch handle in place would interfere with the addition of a third wrap. That is not our current practice, but definitely something to consider. He also mentions the problem with the winch handle being in the way if the trimmer needed to clear a foul. Also, definitely something to consider.

Again, thanks!

 

[jviss]

There seems to be some confusion, so allow me to clarify. As mentioned in the OP, I would NOT leave the winch handle in place after tacking. I am exploring the pro's and con's of placing it in the the windward winch immediately before tacking rather than after tacking. The handle would be removed immediately once any necessary adjustment of the jib sheet has been done.

Big Easy mentions the practice of using two wraps for hand-hauling and a third for winching. I can see having the winch handle in place would interfere with the addition of a third wrap. That is not our current practice, but definitely something to consider. He also mentions the problem with the winch handle being in the way if the trimmer needed to clear a foul. Also, definitely something to consider.

Again, thanks!

So, I don't get why you're even asking. The whole world does it one way, and you seem to be looking for a different way to do it, like a solution looking for a problem. What's your point? Why do you think there's any advantage to inserting the handle before you tack? You're increasing the handling of the handle. The conventional way, you pick it up from where it's stored, use it, and put it back, without doing anything else in between. With your suggestion there are two cycles of handling the handle. Why? What's the point?

 

[stickinthemud57]

So, I don't get why you're even asking. The whole world does it one way, and you seem to be looking for a different way to do it, like a solution looking for a problem. What's your point? Why do you think there's any advantage to inserting the handle before you tack? You're increasing the handling of the handle. The conventional way, you pick it up from where it's stored, use it, and put it back, without doing anything else in between. With your suggestion there are two cycles of handling the handle. Why? What's the point?

Sorry if this is a vexation for you. I bring up the question for a reason, and not just from sheer contrariness. Let me explain further.

My boat, a MacGregor 26S, uses a water ballast rather than a cast iron keel, and the sooner I get my trimmer back up on the windward side, the better. The way we are doing it now, the trimmer wraps the winch, we tack, and he hauls the sheet in and cleats it. He is now on the leeward side, exactly where I don't need his weight. He then inserts the winch handle, trims the sail, then gets up on the windward side. Granted, the process of inserting the winch handle, in practiced hands, is only a few seconds. This crewmember is not a practiced hand, so it takes a bit longer, and delays the process of getting the boat back on an even keel and up to speed on a close-hauled tack.

I am thinking that by having the winch handle in place immediately prior to the tack, he is doing that while his weight is still on the windward side, which would be ideal. It is in place and ready for him to crank the instant he is through hauling the sheet in, saving just a few seconds, granted, but getting up to the windward side more quickly. Any racer will tell you that time saved in tacking adds up, and those seconds could make the difference between 1st place and 2nd place.

You are incorrect in saying that doing it in this order would create two cycles of handling. In either case, the winch handle comes out of the boot, into the winch, and back in the boot where it stays until the next tack. Just once. Not twice. It's simply a question of having it in place just before the trimmer is hauling the sheet rather than just after. The winch handle is handled only once per tack regardless of when it is placed in the winch.

As to your assertion that "the whole world does it one way", my experience, and apparently jssailem's, differs.

So, the point is minimizing the time trimming the jib after the tack and maximizing the time with the crew's weight where it is most needed. I see you have a larger boat with a weighted keel, so I can understand why that would not be a significant concern for you. My situation is somewhat different, thus the thought experiment and my initial question.

 

[Hayden Watson]

Different techniques work for different crews and situations. At the command "Ready about" the new sheet is wrapped on with 2 for light and 3 for heavy turns then into the self-tailer. The winch handle which is the locking type is move across. The winches are serviced each year and run easily to pull the genoa sheet across and when the load is too high to hand pull, the winch is employed. Been doing it this way for 25-years and counting on Papillon. If I did not have the locking handle it would be a different story.