Why are silicone based waxes bad?

[Project_Mayhem]

I acquired a gallon of Meguire's cleaner wax for free a few months back. This weekend I tried it on a small section applied with a paper towel. In less than a minute the chalky gelcoat had a nice shine. Remembering @Maine Sail's buff and wax guide, I suspected silicone. After doing some research I found out that my suspicion was correct. I did a bit more research and couldn't really find anything negative about silicone as an ingredient in products. From what I gathered based on what MaineSail said, is that the product looks shiny and not the surface of the gelcoat. I'm satisfied with the shine it gave but what are the disadvantages that I'm not aware of? Silicone buildup? Won't last as long? Turns into a dull finish quickly? Poor UV protection?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Good question!

 

[jssailem]

I am sure there are scientific reasons that silicone polymer as a gloss enhancer and the Organo-modified Silicone Emulsifier are used to support car paint. The nature of gelcoat is different from paint.

Meguiars states:

Safe and effective on clear coat and single stage paint​

Creates a sacrificial barrier to the environment​

This leads me to think that the silicone in the mix degrades leaving the dull gelcoat behind and the clay ( ingredient: Clay - Abrasive) used to roughen the surface for the silicone to adhere.

 

[dlochner]

Silicone embeds in the porous gel coat and inhibits the adhesion of paint or gel coat. It can not be removed easily. Sanding it off can make the problem worse.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

A bunch of racket about nothing. "If you use silicone on gel coat you can't repair the gel coat because nothing will ever stick to it again." Bull. A quick wipe with #600 grit wet/dry emery paper and you're back in business. Done numerous repairs of spider crack and I've used silicone polishes before.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Silicone embeds in the porous gel coat and inhibits the adhesion of paint or gel coat. It can not be removed easily. Sanding it off can make the problem worse.

How do body shops prep before paint? I'd imagine a similar process would get rid of most contaminates. However, In my case, my boat won't be painted (always ends up looking terrible down the line) and it's highly unlikely that there will be gelcoat repairs, especially in this area. This boat has seen better days and I'm starting to limit how much time and money that I'm willing to put into it

 

[dlochner]

there will be gelcoat repairs, especially in this area.

Now you are living dangerously, tempting Murphy you are!

How do body shops prep before paint?

Well, I'm not a body shop repair guy, however, it is my understanding that cars are not made of fiberglass and gelcoat. (except perhaps a few, like. a 'vette). Cars these days are clear coated with some kind of clear shiny stuff that has to be removed along with the underlying paint to bare metal before painting. Also, the clear coat is not as porous as gelcoat, so the silicone compounds can not become embedded in the gelcoat.

Twenty five year old hull, polished with 3m cleaner wax with a buffer, followed by hand applied Collinite Fiberglass Boat Cleaner and finally some Collinite Boat Wax. Took about 3 hours a side on a 36' boat. No silicone. One of the most time consuming parts of hull waxing is moving the ladder. Use a scaffold. Mine is two step ladders and a 10' 2x10 plank. Much easier on the knees.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

The Colinite paste wax didn't last very long hence why I'm looking at something else

 

[dlochner]

The Colinite paste wax didn't last very long hence why I'm looking at something else

I use the liquid, easier to apply. If the gelcoat has oxidized, it really needs to be buffed out with a power buffer and something more aggressive than Collinite, like the 3m Cleaner Wax or TotalBoat Total Buff. Once you have a good foundation, the cleaner and wax will work well.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Just my subjective opinion but this SEEMS to be lasting longer than the crap I was using before :

24 YO deck was still looking pretty good by the end of the summer. Water had lost the ability to bead on this stuff but still had a reasonable shine.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

No visible oxidation when it was used on the deck. I definitely wont be using it on there again. Way too slippery!

So other than the possibility of the silicone embedding into the pores of the gelcoat, can anyone state why silicone is bad?

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Just my subjective opinion but this SEEMS to be lasting longer than the crap I was using before :

View attachment 214097

24 YO deck was still looking pretty good by the end of the summer. Water had lost the ability to bead on this stuff but still had a reasonable shine.

To clarify, what were you using before and what are you using now?

 

[dmax]

Check out Poli-Glow (PoliGlow) - it's not for the purists, it's like a floor wax with UV protection. Easy to apply, makes dull gel-coat look like Dave's boat. The shine lasts for years. You can apply a new coat every year or so (I usually put a new coat on every two years). Eventually, you need to remove it and start over - comes off pretty easily with floor wax stripper or their (more expensive) stripper.

 

[Maine Sail]

The Colinite paste wax didn't last very long hence why I'm looking at something else

If that's the case it was either not applied correctly of buffed/polished correctly before application.. A product that contains silicone is geared at novices. Do the entire process correctly and # 885 will outlast just about everything else on the market.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Check out Poli-Glow (PoliGlow) - it's not for the purists, it's like a floor wax with UV protection. Easy to apply, makes dull gel-coat look like Dave's boat. The shine lasts for years. You can apply a new coat every year or so (I usually put a new coat on every two years). Eventually, you need to remove it and start over - comes off pretty easily with floor wax stripper or their (more expensive) stripper.

No, No, Nooooooo! I'll admit that it can look good, but it is miserable to remove, I think. When I bought my boat 3 years ago, I figured I'll easily remove the horrible-looking poliglow that was left on the boat. I'll testify that the only product that seems to be able to remove it is the poliglow stripper that they sell. But I didn't get it completely removed last spring before I wanted to splash and it seems that at least 2 or 3 or 4 applications of the product is needed to get the stuff completely off. I will be trying to get it completely gone this spring and then do the compound/polish/wax routine hopefully before I splash this year. It doesn't seem to be nearly as effective in cooler weather, and our NJ weather sucks in the spring. We basically have winter in the spring until it changes over to summer on a dime and that's when I want to put the boat in a few weeks before Memorial Day weekend.

 

[dmax]

Common floor wax stripper removes it - I've done it, it's not that bad. Overall, much less work than compounding and waxing, looks fabulous for a long time (many years). Wax doesn't last the season.

 

[dlochner]

In the past I tried Poli-Glo and did not like the appearance. To my eye it gave the hull a plastic look and although shiny it did not have the luster of a well polished gel hull. That of course is neither a condemnation of the product nor an endorsement, the results were just not to my liking.

Removing the stuff was a pain. I used their product with mediocre results, there were streaks of Poli-glo that resisted removal. Eventually the boat was re-gelcoated after an accident.

 

[George Braun]

Products with silicones and especially products with PTFE, no matter the brand or the details- all have one thing in common - engineered and designed to make a surface slick and non-stick to one degree or the other. The issue is that none are a permanent solution and will wear away, leaving behind some of the PTFE or silicones. The result is that depending on the product details, some of the surface will be "more" non-stick than other parts, making future coatings less uniform unless completely removed. In gelcoat all but impossible. I did have good results with Poli-Glow on a 70's vintage hull, but the resin in Poli-Glow is considerably softer than gelcoat, required committed maintenance than I appreciated at the time. This year with our new 2008 hull we are splurging and paying to have it done the old school way, compounded and Collinite. We'll see.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Check out Poli-Glow (PoliGlow) - it's not for the purists, it's like a floor wax with UV protection. Easy to apply, makes dull gel-coat look like Dave's boat. The shine lasts for years. You can apply a new coat every year or so (I usually put a new coat on every two years). Eventually, you need to remove it and start over - comes off pretty easily with floor wax stripper or their (more expensive) stripper.

NO to Poliglo. I have a long love hate relationship with that stuff. It’s basically Mop n Glo it’s a coating. When you’ve gone a few years and a few coats and it starts to degrade from underneath it looks terrible and becomes a nightmare to remove. They sell a spray on stripper in cans. The Poly Prep does not remove it so you need to contact them for the stripper. It’s still a lot of work. In the end, compounding and waxing (use Mainesail‘s instructions in marinehowto.com ) is less work and yields a MUCH better result.

 

[dlochner]

In the end, compounding and waxing (use Mainesail‘s instructions in marinehowto.com ) is less work and yields a MUCH better result.

Or here

Tips For A Great Buff & Wax

Buff Polish & Wax Try these products (for Gel-Coat only not intended for Awlgrip) The Cliff Note Version: Steps: #1-Clean the hull with an acid base cleaner like FSR, oxalic acid or On & Off to remove rust & tannin staining. (only if necessary) #2-Wet Sand by hand 600 (if real bad)...

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