When right-of-way goes wrong

CharlieCobra · Dec 11, 2007

I hear ya Doug

Case in point. Myself and my Sons along with a friend of theirs was on approach between two islands under sail after a spirited (25 knots) sail. The friend was at the helm when this little stinkpot with two SOB, came roaring out of the marina. He set a course dead at our bow from about 15* off our Port side. We watched and waited for him to adjust to Starboard to take us Port to Port but he just kept coming. This was a little powerboat, maybe 18' and clueless. The 18 year old helm watched this guy while saying "What's with this moron?" When he got to within 100 yards at maybe 20 knots, the helm bore off to Port, dumping our wind just before I gave a command. The moron continued on his course without a glance with his SO while we just shook our heads. This rookie helm has possibilities since he pays attention, knows the Colregs and can keep the old girl in the groove.

Rick D · Dec 11, 2007

ROW Violation....

...somewhere.... see the link. Makes you wonder how this happened. RD

Rick D · Dec 11, 2007

Bridge ROW Issues

A little off topic, but riveting footage. See link

sand sailor · Dec 11, 2007

here we dont have too

many problems probably cause im bigger than most other boats but even the big boats give us lots of room getting in & out of the marina. i havent mounted the motor yet

John · Dec 11, 2007

"Right of Way" Right Away!

Okay, here's a little tale about "right of way":A couple of summers ago, I had taken a co-worker out sailing after work. We were coming back in around 6:00, cruising down the Alameda estuary. As bay area sailors know, the wind often dies down around this time, and we were just cruising gently along, relaxed. The guy was telling me his life story, which was pretty interesting. He was telling me about having spent some 15 years in jail for murder. He'd killed some guy who'd driven over his daughter and killed her. We were cruising along and I was listening to his tale, when suddenly I hear a loud, loud horn that sounded like it was in the cockpit with us.It was only then that I looked back to see a freighter bearing down on us. It looked like that ship was 100' high and 10,000' long! You should have seen me scramble to get the engine started. I later was told that the harbor pilots intentionally do this sort of thing; they consider it as a great joke. Anyway, in that case I considered the ship to have the total "right of way".

Mike B · Dec 12, 2007

Delaware River Pilot

Reminds me of a trip last year. Three of us had just left the Chesapeake & Dealware Canal and were under sail heading north on the Delaware River heading to above Philadelphia. We were about mid channel and working our way over to the right when a south bound freighter got on the VHF. He called out the 3 sailboats in the river range we were in, informed us we were heading into danger, repeated it once again and then in no uncertain terms stated he was going back to his working channel. What you can't appreciate is the tone he used. It was get the hell out of my way or I'll run you over, you've been warned, NOW move. We had already spotted him and had gotten out his way well before he made it to us but found it pretty funny anyway. Either he was having a bad day or just doesn't like pleasure craft. Just a sharp contrast to some of the other pilots we encounter.

Ross · Dec 12, 2007

Mike I knew a retired navy CPO that became a

harbor tug captain as a civilian. I often had a chance to talk with him about commercial traffic and pleasure boats. He had absolutely nothing good to say about the seamanship of pleasure boat captains. He had encountered far too many that didn't understand that in all circumstances working commercial vessels have a job to do and pleasure boats MUST make way for them.

Mike B · Dec 12, 2007

I can appreciate that

Ross I can certainly appreciate that sentiment. One only has to review all the comments in this thread to appreciate what these guys go through on a daily basis. If pleasure boat skippers don't know how to avoid each other how can they be expected to do so for a commercial vessel? When I first started sailing I read a short book on tugs and ships and how they navigate. The bottom line theme was they're fast, don't turn well, can't see you once you're within a mile of their bow, and even worse, they sometimes suddenly do things the captain doesn't intend them to do. That's one of the reasons I keep a sharp eye out for them, stay out of their way and do so well in advance of their approach. I've also made a habit of running just outside the channel, where depths allow, when running in areas where they're prevelant. Some barges will run outside as well but most stay within the markers. This gives me the advantage of staying clear but also running for shallow waters where they would hopefully run aground before hitting me. Just trying to apply some courtesy and common sense to it all.Mike

Stu Jackson · Dec 12, 2007

Oakland Alameda Estuary traffic

John, whatever friend told you " later was told that the harbor pilots intentionally do this sort of thing; they consider it as a great joke" was full of it.The estuary is a working harbor and if they honk at you, it means you weren't paying attention and not looking behind you. It's not only the freighters, it's the other non-sailing boats that create some wake havoc there. I worry more about the dunderheads in their Sea Rays than the big guys.If you aren't aware of it already, Ch. 14 is VTS, and a regular listen there will tell you what's happening all around you.Eternal vigilance is the price of a successful and stress free sail

Jim Seamans · Dec 12, 2007

Hey r.w. landau Did you get your answer?

The next Question!Do you know how to giveway? Rule 8Action to Avoid Collision (a)Any action taken to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard to the observance of good seamanship. (b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession of small alterations of course and/or speed shall be avoided.Rule 16Action by Give-way Vessel Every vessel which is directed to keep out of the way of another vessel shall, so far as possible, take early and substantial action to keep well clear.JimS/V Java

r.w.landau · Dec 12, 2007

Jim, I was actually looking at 15 and 17

The Colregs tell the give-way and the stand-on which way to turn.Rule 15 When two power-driven vessels are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on her own starboard side shall keep out of the way and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel.Rule 17 (a) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed. The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules. (b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision. (c) A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in accordance with subparagraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision with another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side. r.w.landau

Stu Jackson · Dec 12, 2007

That's a looong way to simply say

when in doubt, turn right

r.w.landau · Dec 12, 2007

Stu, you may be right if you can tell me which

boat you are talking about!

The Give-way or the Stand-on?15 is the give-way and 17 is stand-on.I think they made these rule so that if you turn the other way, that the nav lights don't change circumstance as to right of way. Something to think about....The neat thing is that these rules work no matter which compass bearing you are headed.r.w.landau

Stu Jackson · Dec 12, 2007

Both 15 and 17

seem to mean turn right, r.w. 17 -- "...not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side" -- so, turn right15 -- "...are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on her own starboard side shall keep out of the way and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead..." So, figure this as any crossing situation, 90 degrees to 270 degrees off the bow our your boat (not overtaking). Vessel to starboard is stand on but if they start meeting, )left to right or right to left is exactly the same depending on which boat you're on!) if either or both turn right, they'll get further apart.

r.w.landau · Dec 12, 2007

Stu, Click the link and read them through.

r.w.

r.w.landau · Dec 12, 2007

15 says the give-way should go to port.

17 says that stand-on goes to starboard.Hint, think of the lights on the other boat that you are looking at. If it is red you are the give-way. If it is green, you are the stand-on. (you probably know that but I was reaching out here

power boat situations)Like I mentioned before, what is neat is it works no matter what compass bearing you are traveling.r.w.

r.w.landau · Dec 12, 2007

Stu, Crossing is different than meeting or

overtaking.r.w.

Stu Jackson · Dec 12, 2007

I agree, r.w.

1. Crossing - doesn't matter what boat you are on, turn right. Not alter cuorse to port means turn right.2. Overtaking is not a crossing situation. Rule 13 covers3. Head on, both turn right and avoid - simple red to red - just like 14 says.What am I missing?

r.w.landau · Dec 12, 2007

Stu, 15 puts you on the give -way

The give-way must turn to port.r.w.landau

When right-of-way goes wrong

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