What are you doing for JACKLINES?

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
5,104
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
I don't see this at all. Most of the cruisers making passages don't have "electronic gizmos" for MOB, and I've never been involved in a beach conversation about them (which is probably the ONLY electronics I've not had beach conversations about). It just isn't a focus with anyone I've met. I'm not sure what electronic gizmos even means outside of a PLB. Most of the old electronic systems like tags, etc have gone the way of the dodo. I think ACR still has one system, but I've never seen anyone with it.
You don't have electronic gizmos?

In your post above in post #6:

If for some reason everything fails and a person is in the water, our jackets have built in DSC/AIS beacons in them that cause several devices on our boat to start screaming, and a MOB position automatically plotted and tracked on the plotter, the VHF, the AIS and any computer/phone/tablet in operation.”

Let's see you just posted your jackets have built in DCC/AIS beacons, you have several devices that will “start screaming” and you mention the plotter, VHF, AIS and any computer/phone/table in operation....

And you go on to say you've never had a conversation about any of this with anyone when you just did...

Not sure what to make of that statement.... Ah, perhaps you didn't like my term "gizmos".... It's probably an age thing...

dj
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,976
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
You can get high strength dyneema webbing from McMaster - 1" wide rated at 7000 pounds breaking strength. It's not cheap but dyneema is UV resistant, salt water resistant and is considered abrasion resistant. If you set it up running longitudinally on your boat then the lack of stretch is not a problem. The geometry gives enough shock absorption coupled with your tether itself to not be a problem.

I am a firm believer in having everyone on board walk through how to move around on the boat tethered in before shoving off. I've yet to see a boat with a "perfect" tether system where you don't have to switch connection points at some point. Walking through the whole system usually a couple times working out all the details of where you do what I consider very useful. I also test to make sure my tether system at no point allows me to be thrown outside of the lifelines at least at critical locations - especially working at the bow or mast. On my boat I have granny bars at the mast which are really nice but I've been on plenty of boats that don't have them.

It can take a lot of planning to get tethers placed to make their use both simple and such that you can't go over the lifelines.

In my opinion, it's especially critical for solo offshore sailors to have tether systems very well designed and built. All the electronic gizmos aren't doing much to keep you alive if you are more than 200 nm offshore. All they really do is make finding your dead body easier. The probability of another boat being close enough to reach you in time to save you is very small. At 200 NM offshore, it will take a minimum of 48 hours for SAR personnel to reach where you are. The probability of surviving for that time frame is extremely low, even less so if you are sailing in higher latitudes.

It seems to me that currently we spend a lot of time "shopping" for safety instead of designing and building for safety. I'm not opposed to all the electronic gizmos, but I feel the focus should be on designing and building a system, or systems, that simply keep you on the boat - and knowing how to use them.

In my opinion, the primary focus needs to be making sure nobody can fall off the boat. Get that down first, then work on the backup systems for the location of a MOB. It sure feels to me the focus today is flipped with "let's get all the electronic gizmos" - then let's talk about keeping people on the boat. Well at least we are talking about keeping people on the boat - although a bit superficially. However, the problem with going deeper than that is it becomes boat specific.

dj
Yup.
The primary advantage of using Dyneema single-braid for jacklines is that it can be spliced by most anyone at full strength. Stitching Dyneema webbing to full strength is tricky and requires practice and testing of samples.

As you imply, you need to work the systems out and then practice with them. They should feel natural.
 

colemj

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Jul 13, 2004
1,079
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
You don't have electronic gizmos?

In your post above in post #6:

If for some reason everything fails and a person is in the water, our jackets have built in DSC/AIS beacons in them that cause several devices on our boat to start screaming, and a MOB position automatically plotted and tracked on the plotter, the VHF, the AIS and any computer/phone/tablet in operation.”

Let's see you just posted your jackets have built in DCC/AIS beacons, you have several devices that will “start screaming” and you mention the plotter, VHF, AIS and any computer/phone/table in operation....

And you go on to say you've never had a conversation about any of this with anyone when you just did...

Not sure what to make of that statement.... Ah, perhaps you didn't like my term "gizmos".... It's probably an age thing...

dj
I didn't realize you were counting navigational and communication electronics as part of "gizmos". I'm not sure what to say to this, as it seems to be broadening the point ad absurdum so you can keep that bone in your teeth. Those types of electronics are completely removed from decisions about MOB, and I don't know anyone who approaches that differently.

Are you really faulting people for getting a VHF before a jackline?

As far as I'm concerned, the DSC/AIS PLB is the only "gizmo" we have for MOB, and that was considered holistically with everything else. The devices I mentioned are simply receivers for the PLB. Other receivers include any ships within range that have DSC or AIS receivers.

If you want to take your usual pedantic path of my never having a conversation about this when I just did, then you must pay attention to the point that I said I never had a beach conversation about it. I doubt anyone here is standing on a beach.

Pedantic cuts both ways. Pay attention.

Mark
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
5,104
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Yup.
The primary advantage of using Dyneema single-braid for jacklines is that it can be spliced by most anyone at full strength. Stitching Dyneema webbing to full strength is tricky and requires practice and testing of samples.

As you imply, you need to work the systems out and then practice with them. They should feel natural.
@thinwater - I'd be really interested in any info about stitching flat dyneema. I don't have any test equipment that could test different designs. If you know of any references to that - I'd be really interested in reading them.

I prefer my jack lines to be flat not round. If I step on them, it doesn't cause any kind of issue.

My default is to do what I consider significant overkill - but having access to actual design testing would be great!

dj