Expect to be anchoring in mud in the Chesapeake. A plow type anchor is best for this.
CQR, delta etc
CQR, delta etc
Wanting to overnight, what anchor?
- Thread starter Cool Beans
- Start date
Good anchoring location
Go out to the cove by the high rise bridge US 64. Good first timer place no big ship traffic and easy bottom to hook in. Go by salty dog and buy the biggest anchor you can fit on your pulpit or carry to the car and 25' chain. Anchor also comes in handy for pulling your self off sand bars.
Go out to the cove by the high rise bridge US 64. Good first timer place no big ship traffic and easy bottom to hook in. Go by salty dog and buy the biggest anchor you can fit on your pulpit or carry to the car and 25' chain. Anchor also comes in handy for pulling your self off sand bars.
25 feet of chain on a 33 foot boat? Hardly.
Length of chain is usually suggested at least equal to the length of the boat, more is better.
Length of chain is usually suggested at least equal to the length of the boat, more is better.
As you are new to anchoring, I would strongly urge you to buy one of the "next gen" anchors - Mantus, Manson Supreme, or Manson Boss are easy to get -- use the chain and line you already have.
The biggest advantage of the new anchors is that they reset much more reliably after the boat swings. This really matters to someone new to anchoring! Especially in the Chesapeake where 180 degree wind and current shifts are frequent (and seemingly always at 2AM). Any anchor (except maybe a mushroom) will pull out when this happens.
Fluke, Danforths, and CQRs will sometimes not reset after a shift (about 25% of the time in my 30 yeas of experience anchoring with them). They will just bounce along the bottom with almost no holding strength at all. Notice all the previous messages about tricks to set them - none can be done from your berth
When anchoring with CQRs and Deltas, I would get up and go on deck every time I felt the wind change to check if the anchor is set. This would, of course, wake my wife up too. Once on deck, it's confusing because it is dark and the boat has moved about 200 ft as it swung on the line. There's no easy way to tell if the anchor is reset except to sit there for a half hour watching the GPS. I hated to wake up the whole anchorage by starting the engine to back down on it.
After two years and about 100 nights at anchor with the Supreme without a single reset failure, I gained the confidence to just roll over and go back to sleep. It also made my wife like anchoring out much more.
The biggest advantage of the new anchors is that they reset much more reliably after the boat swings. This really matters to someone new to anchoring! Especially in the Chesapeake where 180 degree wind and current shifts are frequent (and seemingly always at 2AM). Any anchor (except maybe a mushroom) will pull out when this happens.
Fluke, Danforths, and CQRs will sometimes not reset after a shift (about 25% of the time in my 30 yeas of experience anchoring with them). They will just bounce along the bottom with almost no holding strength at all. Notice all the previous messages about tricks to set them - none can be done from your berth
When anchoring with CQRs and Deltas, I would get up and go on deck every time I felt the wind change to check if the anchor is set. This would, of course, wake my wife up too. Once on deck, it's confusing because it is dark and the boat has moved about 200 ft as it swung on the line. There's no easy way to tell if the anchor is reset except to sit there for a half hour watching the GPS. I hated to wake up the whole anchorage by starting the engine to back down on it.
After two years and about 100 nights at anchor with the Supreme without a single reset failure, I gained the confidence to just roll over and go back to sleep. It also made my wife like anchoring out much more.
if you havent spent any time on the hook, on your boat, or even any nights aboard, you have been missing out on some of the greatest times in a boatowners life....
if you have sailed on choppy waters during good blows, and enjoy it, you will have no trouble sleeping thru it at night. like a baby in the cradle....
I sleep better when the boat is rocking and rolling than i do on the flat calm nights... and its way more adventurous...
for your boat, 5/8" rode and 5/16 high test chain is plenty for almost any need you would ever encounter, no matter what anchor you have... if you will never spend any time on the anchor if the wind is blowing hard, 1/2" rode would work.... if you are in soft mud or sand, the danforth anchor is an excellent anchor and there is no need for any other. BUT, there are other anchors that will cover a much wider range of bottom types, including the sand and mud, but if your never on another type of bottom, save your money.
deploying two anchors on good holding ground is the best way to get a good nights sleep during a blow... with only one holding you, the wind or tide could shift and break the anchor out and let you drift a bit. this is never a good thing when no one is on watch.
and when considering deploying two anchors, it brings up a need to study the different ways and reasons for deploying them.
if you have sailed on choppy waters during good blows, and enjoy it, you will have no trouble sleeping thru it at night. like a baby in the cradle....
I sleep better when the boat is rocking and rolling than i do on the flat calm nights... and its way more adventurous
...for your boat, 5/8" rode and 5/16 high test chain is plenty for almost any need you would ever encounter, no matter what anchor you have... if you will never spend any time on the anchor if the wind is blowing hard, 1/2" rode would work.... if you are in soft mud or sand, the danforth anchor is an excellent anchor and there is no need for any other. BUT, there are other anchors that will cover a much wider range of bottom types, including the sand and mud, but if your never on another type of bottom, save your money.
deploying two anchors on good holding ground is the best way to get a good nights sleep during a blow... with only one holding you, the wind or tide could shift and break the anchor out and let you drift a bit. this is never a good thing when no one is on watch.
and when considering deploying two anchors, it brings up a need to study the different ways and reasons for deploying them.
OK I understand that we all have opinions about anchor tackle but to suggest that the new anchors "reset much more reliably.." is kinda hard to believe.
How would you even measure that?
How would you even measure that?
with the cost of anchors being over priced like they are, there is a huge competition for who gets to say their anchor resets the quickest.. time to set or reset is the only thing that is not user/builder controlled.
And although the length of scope could be manipulated to show a biased reading from one to another, there are usually enough witness's present to dispute any cheating.
the weight, the size, and the amount of scope can all be manipulated to make one anchor better than the other, but getting it to set, or to reset quickly after breaking out is purely a design thing....
so there is a lot of money spent on anchor testing... using many different anchors, in waters with different bottoms. with scuba divers, timers, tape measures and cameras.... its all recorded. sometimes its only seconds, sometimes its complete failure, but its all recorded.
even though there are definite, undisputable differences between some anchors and others, the difference between the top 4 or 5 anchors is only splitting hairs....
without using automated cutting and bending to punch out many parts in a short amount of time, i can manually cut, bend and manufacture an anchor like the mantus, rocna or manson in 2.5 man hours with the new material cost of 30 dollars... so figure out what shop labor is and you have a reasonable idea of what an anchor will cost you to have it built as a custom unit... galvanizing is additional. $250 minimum... once you have enough anchors to meet the minimum cost, additional anchors get dipped for $10-$15 each depending on quantity....
now, there is cost to the equipment that cuts and bends, but with all the automated cutting and bending, there is very little need to spend any time cutting or grinding the cuts, so it is only a matter of jigging up the pre-cut pieces and taking about 8 minutes to weld it all up, and then toss it in the tub with the others to send out to be hot dipped.... if you already have the equipment to do all this, building anchors can be very profitable...
the price is high not because it cost so much to manufacture, but because its a good anchor and enough of us will pay that price for it.... eventually.
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well i just hope a bruce anchor will work because that is what i have ...i got either 45 ft or 90 ft of 1/4 inch chain and a 250 ft of 1/2 inch three lay nylon rope ......i havent seen any one talk about a bruce much on here of late....
regards
woody
regards
woody
Cool beans,
I had a Ranger 29 and used a Danforth, I think 22Lb, with 12' of 3/8 chain and slept like a baby in our local good holding mud/sand bottoms. The Ranger was reasonably well behaved at anchor, whereas the Hunter 356 was a sailing monster on the rode. We needed a much bigger anchor for it.
Sleeping on the anchor, in a good anchorage, is one of the great pleasures of life and I highly encourage you to do it. Don't overwork it. The worst case is a sleepless night. Cruisers do that all the time. Learn from it.
I had a Ranger 29 and used a Danforth, I think 22Lb, with 12' of 3/8 chain and slept like a baby in our local good holding mud/sand bottoms. The Ranger was reasonably well behaved at anchor, whereas the Hunter 356 was a sailing monster on the rode. We needed a much bigger anchor for it.
Sleeping on the anchor, in a good anchorage, is one of the great pleasures of life and I highly encourage you to do it. Don't overwork it. The worst case is a sleepless night. Cruisers do that all the time. Learn from it.
Until you've used one of the "next gen" anchors (Spade, Rocna, Supreme, Ultra, Mantus) it's really hard to belive the difference in how well they set compared to the old standards like the Danforth, CQR, and Delta.
The Danforth particularly was designed for one way pulls as it was invented to winch landing craft off the beach during D-day. I still use a Danforth when setting more than one anchor where I know the pull will stay in one direction.
The CQR is notorious for not setting reliably but is strong as can be once set well with 7-1 scope. There are lots of tricks to getting a CQR to set and in the hands of an experienced user it's great. The Delta used to be my "go to" anchor but it can get pulled onto its side and not reset with harder bottoms. Finally, the Bruce is good but doesn't hold as well per pound of weight. So go up a few sizes. And the original Bruce hasn't been made for 10 years. Most of the copies are inferior.
Again, in the hands of an experienced skipper, almost any anchor will serve. But the OP is new at this game and anchoring in waters known for current and wind changes. With a new gen anchor he can pretty much throw it over with 5-1 scope and know he won't wake up to find that he dragged down on a mud bank after a 2AM wind shift.
The Danforth particularly was designed for one way pulls as it was invented to winch landing craft off the beach during D-day. I still use a Danforth when setting more than one anchor where I know the pull will stay in one direction.
The CQR is notorious for not setting reliably but is strong as can be once set well with 7-1 scope. There are lots of tricks to getting a CQR to set and in the hands of an experienced user it's great. The Delta used to be my "go to" anchor but it can get pulled onto its side and not reset with harder bottoms. Finally, the Bruce is good but doesn't hold as well per pound of weight. So go up a few sizes. And the original Bruce hasn't been made for 10 years. Most of the copies are inferior.
Again, in the hands of an experienced skipper, almost any anchor will serve. But the OP is new at this game and anchoring in waters known for current and wind changes. With a new gen anchor he can pretty much throw it over with 5-1 scope and know he won't wake up to find that he dragged down on a mud bank after a 2AM wind shift.
10,000 miles under the keel in the last 7 years, anchoring probably 90% of the time. 22 pound Claw (Simpson Lawrence knockoff of the Bruce)and 75 feet of 1/4 G4 chain.
From the Rio Grande River, all around the Gulf of Mexico, through the Keys, all over the Bahamas- Bimini, Berry's, Nassau, Exumas, Eleuthra, then up to Annapolis, Md and back to Texas.
25 foot boat, displacing about 7800 pounds cruise loaded.
I posted a picture of the bow set up and anchor earlier
As a side note, when cruising, I also carry aboard a large Danforth Hi Test, and a 16 pound folding Northill, both with their own chain and rode.
ONCE and ONLY once did the anchor refused to set, and that in the Berry's in a spot the guide books said few anchors would set- bottom was hard scoured marl. I along with three other boats, took moorings. NOBODY's anchor would grab
Oh and I used a 16 pound true Bruce with 25 feet of 1/4 G4 chain on my 21 footer for years- it's still there with the new owner.
I don't think you'll have a bit of trouble with that setup
Many thanks for the advice!
I've taken the first week of June off. I'm going to go with new rode and a decent length of chain on the existing big fluke. I'm hoping the weather is fair, and I plan to spend a few nights in Willoughby Bay. Nothing fancy, nothing far off and exotic, lol. If it is nice enough, long enough, I might shoot up to Mobjack Bay. But maybe an itinerary is for another thread.
I've taken the first week of June off. I'm going to go with new rode and a decent length of chain on the existing big fluke. I'm hoping the weather is fair, and I plan to spend a few nights in Willoughby Bay. Nothing fancy, nothing far off and exotic, lol. If it is nice enough, long enough, I might shoot up to Mobjack Bay. But maybe an itinerary is for another thread.
Concerning the issue of the amount/size of chain needed, here is some really useful information: http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php
Suggest anchoring for lunch first time
As a suggestion, before going to overnight anchoring, give some daytime anchoring a trial first.
Leave the dock and head out on the ebb, find someplace close by, and go anchor out. Bring along some good stuff to eat, drink, and maybe read or listen to. Spend some time on the hook while it is easy to watch to see if the boat moves and if it's windy, blustery, and there are some waves, so much the better. Ditto tide changes. Watch targets on the shore as if they were range markers to see if they move.
Weigh anchor and examine the kind of stuff it brings up - sand, mud, etc. so you have a feel for the bottom type.
Thunderstorms can bring some really large gusts that will challenge the ground tackle so tests in benign conditions won't give you a comfort feeling when the time comes.
Some bottoms and locations are known to be easy to drag on. We have some locally including one popular destination right here where I live and when it's really blowing you can often see a boat gradually move and eventually when the skipper realizes it, he turns on the motor and re-anchors or maybe puts out more scope, but in a crowded anchorage more scope may not be a good option.
Anchor and chain: weight is your friend.
You know, as an aside, I can't believe anyone has gone this long without anchoring overnight! Like some others have said, this is a very enjoyable part of boating. Just pick a spot away from where the powerboaters run as it is NOT enjoyable when they zoom by close abeam. Speaking of wakes, be a friendly newcomer and not drag your own wake into an anchorage upon arrival.
As a suggestion, before going to overnight anchoring, give some daytime anchoring a trial first.
Leave the dock and head out on the ebb, find someplace close by, and go anchor out. Bring along some good stuff to eat, drink, and maybe read or listen to. Spend some time on the hook while it is easy to watch to see if the boat moves and if it's windy, blustery, and there are some waves, so much the better. Ditto tide changes. Watch targets on the shore as if they were range markers to see if they move.
Weigh anchor and examine the kind of stuff it brings up - sand, mud, etc. so you have a feel for the bottom type.
Thunderstorms can bring some really large gusts that will challenge the ground tackle so tests in benign conditions won't give you a comfort feeling when the time comes.
Some bottoms and locations are known to be easy to drag on. We have some locally including one popular destination right here where I live and when it's really blowing you can often see a boat gradually move and eventually when the skipper realizes it, he turns on the motor and re-anchors or maybe puts out more scope, but in a crowded anchorage more scope may not be a good option.
Anchor and chain: weight is your friend.
You know, as an aside, I can't believe anyone has gone this long without anchoring overnight! Like some others have said, this is a very enjoyable part of boating. Just pick a spot away from where the powerboaters run as it is NOT enjoyable when they zoom by close abeam. Speaking of wakes, be a friendly newcomer and not drag your own wake into an anchorage upon arrival.
anchors
Ive have 2 They are both old A 17 lb Bruce and a 17 lb Danforth 25 ft of chain on each
I like the Bruce better There are two many issues with the danforth for my piece of mind.
I havent had any problems once I got rid of the CQR It was a dragger (my opinion
Ive have 2 They are both old A 17 lb Bruce and a 17 lb Danforth 25 ft of chain on each
I like the Bruce better There are two many issues with the danforth for my piece of mind.
I havent had any problems once I got rid of the CQR It was a dragger (my opinion
What is your 22lb "fluke" anchor? I googled "22lb anchor" and the only one called "fluke" was a Danforth knock-off by SeaChoice. This is not a well known anchor maker. There are a lot of badly made Chinese anchors out there. And a 22lb galvanized steel anchor is not "big" for a 31ft boat.
Your rode and chain are fine. Spend the money (and a little more) on an anchor from a well known anchor manufacturer. The manufacturers all publish a table on their web sites as to the right size anchor for your boat. Most people (myself included) go one size higher than the table to be conservative.
Since you are new to anchoring, I would again suggest an anchor known for resetting reliably after a wind change. Best would be any of the new generation (spade, manson supreme, rocna, ultra, mantus). The Delta and Bruce (Claw from Lewmar) are OK. Danforth (what I think you call "fluke") and CQR are not so good at resetting (although they are very strong in one direction once set).
Your rode and chain are fine. Spend the money (and a little more) on an anchor from a well known anchor manufacturer. The manufacturers all publish a table on their web sites as to the right size anchor for your boat. Most people (myself included) go one size higher than the table to be conservative.
Since you are new to anchoring, I would again suggest an anchor known for resetting reliably after a wind change. Best would be any of the new generation (spade, manson supreme, rocna, ultra, mantus). The Delta and Bruce (Claw from Lewmar) are OK. Danforth (what I think you call "fluke") and CQR are not so good at resetting (although they are very strong in one direction once set).
Lots of great comments/advice. Interesting notes about who should go forward...my vote is that whoever is in charge needs to be at the bow where he/she can see the rode, and direct the helmsman. So in my book the captain goes forward and calls the shots from there using hand signals. My wife and I anchored many times - silently using hand signals - with em at the bow and her at the helm. Almost always elicits favorable observations.
For the anchor a 33lb plow or bruce should do you pretty well on the Chesapeake. Use 30-40 ft of chain. If you don't have a windlass, you won't want to carry more chain than necessary. The purpose of the chain is to keep the pull on the anchor horizontal so it will want to dig in when it feels a pull. The anchor rode will be a muddy mess coming up from the bottom. Wear gloves and take a bucket forward to wash down.
There are good place to anchor in Willoughby, Mill Creek near Ft Monroe, downtown Hampton, and Hospital Point, to name a few. I would avoid Kiptopeke until you are confident in your gear and technique...it can get pretty rolly there. It is a good idea to go out and practice setting and retrieving. Maybe we'll see you out there.
For the anchor a 33lb plow or bruce should do you pretty well on the Chesapeake. Use 30-40 ft of chain. If you don't have a windlass, you won't want to carry more chain than necessary. The purpose of the chain is to keep the pull on the anchor horizontal so it will want to dig in when it feels a pull. The anchor rode will be a muddy mess coming up from the bottom. Wear gloves and take a bucket forward to wash down.
There are good place to anchor in Willoughby, Mill Creek near Ft Monroe, downtown Hampton, and Hospital Point, to name a few. I would avoid Kiptopeke until you are confident in your gear and technique...it can get pretty rolly there. It is a good idea to go out and practice setting and retrieving. Maybe we'll see you out there.
If you have a good way to store the anchor this is good advice. If you don't have a bow roller that will hold them, and it won't fit in your anchor locker then you should go with the "other next gen" anchor that wasn't included here, the Fortress. It's a Danforth style, but I have not seen any issues with mine resetting (mine never once failed to set or quickly reset on me), I suspect this is largely because the anchor weighs so little it has no problem flipping around and getting the tip of the flukes pointing down.
I would point out that while a Fortress is on the surface a "Danforth style" anchor, it should be mentioned that it is generally excluded in this list. The performance characteristics are uniquely Fortress and do not belong in the same group as the Danforth, for the same reason you wouldn't both compare a cheap West Marine "Danforth style" 'Slip Ring Fluke Anchor', and an actual Danforth Brand anchor...
Hehe, yes it has been a long time. . .without divulging my lifes story, the last 5 or so years of my life have been lived as "Maybe next weekend. . ." Not this year though
After thinking about it, I'm not as cash strapped as I pretend to be. I'm just painfully and sometimes unjustifiably cheap. The anchor I have is the Sea Choice brand. I guess unless someone can talk me out of it, the 33lbs Rocna will be gracing my anchor locker along with new rode and chain. Over the years, being stingy has cost me more in the long run, lol.
The 33lb'r is rated for a 33ft boat less than 17,200 lbs. My boat I guess is light @ 10,500.
I also talked to my boss who sails from Maine to the Caribbean regularly on a large Bruce and he said go with a claw or plow and skip the fluked anchor (shoulda talked to him sooner).
I did look at a fortress. Everything seems to be in the $250-$350 range, and if I'm to buy a new anchor, might as well get a modern plow version.
Not this year though After thinking about it, I'm not as cash strapped as I pretend to be. I'm just painfully and sometimes unjustifiably cheap. The anchor I have is the Sea Choice brand. I guess unless someone can talk me out of it, the 33lbs Rocna will be gracing my anchor locker along with new rode and chain. Over the years, being stingy has cost me more in the long run, lol.
The 33lb'r is rated for a 33ft boat less than 17,200 lbs. My boat I guess is light @ 10,500.
I also talked to my boss who sails from Maine to the Caribbean regularly on a large Bruce and he said go with a claw or plow and skip the fluked anchor (shoulda talked to him sooner).
I did look at a fortress. Everything seems to be in the $250-$350 range, and if I'm to buy a new anchor, might as well get a modern plow version.