venture 21 for first boat?

topcat0399 · Feb 3, 2014

You have to make some decisions first because you don't buy a sailboat - you marry it.

Do you intend to be a "serious" type sailor or just an occasionally splasher.

Sleeping on a V21 with 2 - I don't know - that Vberth is going to be tight.
On our V224 one of first things I did was extend the vberth - I'm a small guy with
a long background in ARMY TANKS and I felt cramped, and our boat is quite a bit bigger than a V21. We use our boat as a pocket cruiser - stove toilet coolers heater etc etc and its about the perfect size for 2. We've spent up to 2 weeks on it not touching land.

I think the V21 might be a fun little boat to learn on, should be lively and easy to handle on land and water.

Before you buy (don't ask how I KNOW)

Check the sails - make sure they are in good shape and if not
that you are willing to pay the replacement cost.

Check the decks - all of them. Do the tap test EVERYWHERE, inside and out top to bottom keel to deck bow to stern. Look at the stringers from front to rear both sides.
Look in the compartment under the vberth. Check for broken or rotten. Look for signs of water coming in or sitting. Look where ever fittings come thru the deck. Anything that's wrong can be fixed if you have the will and are at all handy.

Could be a great first step perhaps but I think if you want to do long weekend cruise type stuff like we do you might want something closer to 25 foot boat.

Welcome to the board and keep us posted please.

Dan Hill · Feb 3, 2014

Our first boat was a Mac Venture 22. Great old boat to learn on and we put many new scratches in her gel coat the first year. Easy to sail with basic controls. As far as overnighting, we did many weekends our first year. As stated the v-birth is cramped for 2 people. Buy her cheap and have fun!

topcat0399 · Feb 3, 2014

You might get all kinds of opinions but...

Only you can decide.

dale4643 · Feb 3, 2014

Me and my wife live here in Oklahoma and we bought our Mac 22 last summer in May. Wish I had done my homework like your doing before we bought, fortunately for us we chose a very solid well cared for boat that from all indication had never been overnighted in. It's an 85 and was owned by a college professor that kept it in a slip all summer then the marina would dry store it during winter. He couldn't even tell me how to lower the mast, and we were clueless, but we did it. After cleaning it up and reading and watching videos we hit the lake to sail it and spend the weekend on.
We survived, but this approach is not advisable even with my years of power boating experience on the Chesepeake Bay. (take asa classes or go out with someone first) My wife had never set foot on a boat in her life. We spent almost every weekend on her (never just a day sail) this past summer and had a blast learning about sailing and ourselves in cramped quarters. Find someone that can help you that knows what to look for. Keel, pivot bolt, sails, standing rigging and some of the other things like Topcat mentioned are things that you need to be aware of and their condition. Look at a few and keep doing your homework. Not trying to make you skittish but also like Topcat says it's like marrying your floating castle so choose wisely cause they can be alot of expense if it needs alot.

Btw after sailing ours for 2 months I went looking for a bigger one but decided until I really learn how to sail I am very content with the 22 that I can take anywhere and can set her up in 30 minutes! Sailing has been an awesome experience for us!

centerline · Feb 4, 2014

Dan Hill said:
Our first boat was a Mac Venture 22. Great old boat to learn on and we put many new scratches in her gel coat the first year. Easy to sail with basic controls. As far as overnighting, we did many weekends our first year. As stated the v-birth is cramped for 2 people. Buy her cheap and have fun!

I fully agree with this reply...

for a first boat, get something affordable.... like the venture 21.

the 21 has a great reputation as being easy to sail, fast enough in its class to be a contender, a good weekender for 2 adventurous people, relatively cheap to outfit, its easy to rig, easy to tow, and easy to get off of a sand bar

....

we had a later version of the venture and spent many 4 day weekends on it... im 6ft, and 52yrs old, and found the v-berth to be no problem at all for the 2 of us...

you will learn boat maintenance at an affordable cost, and while learning, and you will get some scuffs and scratches in it... no point in buying more boat to learn on, unless your budget allows you to not worry about a couple thousand either way....

buy a decent boat at a cheap price, learn to sail and have a blast while doing it, and when you are ready to move up to a bigger boat you will have some experience behind you to know what you want and how to take care of it....
and when you get ready to sell the first boat, you will more than likely get your initial investment back...

the venture 21 is a nicely designed hull and a fun boat to learn on... make sure it has all of its components and the sails are in usable condition.... parts can get expensive real fast.

MrBill_FLL · Feb 4, 2014

bigger is almost always better.

The 22 and 23 seem bigger inside by more than 1 foot. IMHO.

can you find a V23? that's a big little boat. and probably not too much more $

topcat0399 · Feb 4, 2014

dale4643
macgregor 22
oolagah, lake

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1

More fresh meat!

Glad ya could join us!

dale4643 · Feb 4, 2014

Thanks Topcat....I'm learning alot from guys like you. I new I was a sailor before I bought that power boat way back then in Maryland but was under pressure from friends to go with power. Not to sound corny but sailing is so serene, peaceful and from what I have learned it is an art...or a craft that no one can ever master...just improve upon. That's the fun part. We have enjoyed this "little Mac 22" so much and I find myself going to bed at night thinking of the ways I'm going to improve my sailboat and our experience on the water.

Kazz don't waste any time getting out there and enjoying what sailing has to offer. I have seen some awesome modifications online of 21's that would make it comfortable for 2 people on the weekends. I have also extended my v-berth and getting ready to add a little galley as well. Sailors are so creative...I've already copied alot from these guys (or gals) and there is all kinds of things you can add to these things to get the most out of it without breaking the bank!

dale4643 · Feb 4, 2014

Yes they are easy to modify...just do it right the first time with durable material and even though it may be in the cabin it still has to withstand condensation, humidity and alot of motion from the boat itself. I have only minor carpentry skills and have been able to make it comfy for us so far. I was lucky though because the previous owners had added nothing to the interior so I had a clean slate to work with. I have learned to do fiberglass work which can be intimidating at first but it is very forgiving. You can make the cabin the way you want it...I catch myself inside sometimes just looking around for a solid hour just thinking of what my next project will be.

dale4643 · Feb 4, 2014

Not sure if your talking about further up in the middle of the v-berth?? but probably not because the post should be directly under where your mast is. That is the extra support for the weight of the mast on the top of the cabin. Maybe someone else can answer that better than I can but I'm pretty darn sure that post needs to be directly under where the mast is.

topcat0399 · Feb 4, 2014

No. You can't move it. It carries the force of the mast rig to the keel of the boat.

You are going to have to live with it and make it work for you. Not very conductive to cuddling or stealing body heat from your admiral, but if the V21 is what you want then you can find a way to make it work for you. A vberth doesn't have to be a sleeping area.

We changed the entire interior layout of our venture to make the vberth something we could live with. Moved the galley moved the porta potty moved the table changed the settee setup - all of it. It is now and will be for a long time - a perpetual construction zone. All mods and fixes must be accomplished between splashes. Winter work is almost out of the question unless you have heated space for it. In another eight years it will all be pretty - for now functional works.

I do often just driveway sail the boat pondering this that and the other.

I got the bug bad and waiting for sailing season and ice to melt is excruciating.
Not to mention you have all these down southers baiting you with warm weather photo's grrrrr.

There's a lot of info on the net about the V21 - I suggest you get reading.

All I know for sure is that a flock of sailboats on the water is far more beautiful than any mob of stink pots.

Flamingo1 · Feb 4, 2014

Kazz330 said:
Hello all!

I'm currently thinking of taking a look at a venture 21. it needs some cleaning up, has a trailer, but no outboard.

would this be a good first boat? What is it like sleeping on it with two people?

Looking for something for my and my girlfriend to spend weekends on during the summer.

Thanks!

In November of 2013, I bought my first boat - a 1973 Venture 21. I bought it because it was inexpensive, the fiberglass (while in need of paint) was in pretty good shape and the sails and rigging appeared to be in good shape.

It seems like a good boat for a new sailor to learn on - and I have already learned a lot. One thing that I learned is that the tiller can be a bit "tender". I'm sure that I don't know exactly what that means yet, but I do know that if you let go of the tiller to tend the jib sheets, you are going to do an accidental gybe and you may hit your head on the boom in the process.

As for sleeping on it, I have not yet tried, but I don't think it would be very comfortable. I'm 6'2 and weigh in the 240 neighborhood, so I'm not exactly petite. I honestly do not think that I would fit in the v-berth. If I was going to overnight on the boat, I think I would stick the Admiral in the v-berth and I would try the quarterberth - sticking my legs back underneath the side of the cockpit. The cushions do go back under that area.

My cushions are a bit "dated" (I'd guess around 1973ish) - and, while I have cleaned them up to the extent possibly, they could use some serious recovering.

I like my Venture 21 and I've already had a lot of fun with it - but I do think that I would prefer something with a bit larger cabin such as a Catalina 22.

Tim.

Knuttle · Feb 4, 2014

Flamingo1 said:
One thing that I learned is that the tiller can be a bit "tender".

This is a a property of a sailboat. This is the safety valve of the boat. When things get wild, if you release the tiller, the boat will come around into the wind. Since the wind will never stay where you want it, this is a good idea you would never want a boat to round up away from the wind. It is caused because of the position of the center of effort of the sails and the center of the forces on the keel.

On my V21, I will run a line from the cleats on both sides of the cockpit to hold the tiller to keep the boat on the correct course. I will also never get farther from the tiller than necessary it the wind conditions.

As for sleeping on the boat I find it better to sleep on a quarter berth, especially the one that has less of your body under the cockpit.

centerline · Feb 5, 2014

Flamingo1 said:
One thing that I learned is that the tiller can be a bit "tender". I'm sure that I don't know exactly what that means yet, but I do know that if you let go of the tiller to tend the jib sheets, you are going to do an accidental gybe and you may hit your head on the boom in the process.

Tim.

if your boat gybes when you let go of the tiller, you need to tune the rigging.... the boat should round up rather than gybe....

tender means the boat lays over (heels )easy in a light blow... the 21 is not a tender boat, but it IS a small boat, and it WILL lay over easier than a larger boat, but when comparing boats of that size and class, the venture/mac would not be considered tender...

when sailing in a moderate breeze, the tiller should have a very slight pull to it. if you are sitting on the windward side (the high side) of the boat, the tiller should be almost neutral OR pull gently in your hand... it should never push at you. if it does, the boat can easily round down and you WILL gybe... this is not good.
it also should not pull too hard unless you're in HIGH wind with too much sail in the air. if letting the mainsheet out doesnt do much, then you would need to reef to get the tiller back under control.
but if you get the right amount of rake in your mast and trim your sails properly, the boat will almost sail itself....

Flamingo1 · Feb 5, 2014

centerline said:
if your boat gybes when you let go of the tiller, you need to tune the rigging.... the boat should round up rather than gybe....

tender means the boat lays over (heels )easy in a light blow... the 21 is not a tender boat, but it IS a small boat, and it WILL lay over easier than a larger boat, but when comparing boats of that size and class, the venture/mac would not be considered tender...

when sailing in a moderate breeze, the tiller should have a very slight pull to it. if you are sitting on the windward side (the high side) of the boat, the tiller should be almost neutral OR pull gently in your hand... it should never push at you. if it does, the boat can easily round down and you WILL gybe... this is not good.
it also should not pull too hard unless you're in HIGH wind with too much sail in the air. if letting the mainsheet out doesnt do much, then you would need to reef to get the tiller back under control.
but if you get the right amount of rake in your mast and trim your sails properly, the boat will almost sail itself....

Thanks! Tender wasn't the right word. We do get some heel, but not excessive. Before the accidental gybe (or rounding up?), we were having great wind and zipping along having a blast (at a full 6+ kts according to my gps). Tuning is a bit beyond my skill level at this point and that is precisely why I am looking to join a local sailing club. It would be nice to improve my sailing skills and learn more about what I don't know.

That moment also taught me something about myself (that I knew already, but needed a reminder, I guess) - I tend to try to control everything myself. My wife was on the boat with me and she could have easily assisted with jib sheets as we tacked/gybed. I tried to do it all and received a rap on the head to remind me to trust other people more.

Anyway - sorry for the thread drift - getting back on point, I like my Venture 21 and I do believe that it is a very good "first boat" for me. I am looking forward to getting back out on her this weekend. We are fortunate to live in Arizona and can sail during these winter months - it's the summer months that become a bit uncomfortable.