Traveler theory

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,511
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
I know the OP doesnt want a water ballast boat from another thread but I have an old 1990 Mac 26S water ballast boat and think that if there was only one sail control I had to pick (besides the sheet), it would be the traveler.

Water ballast (which I have been sailing now for 13 years) works very well at low heel angles but not so well at high heel angles compared to a deep ballast sailboat. When the boat starts to heel, the hull center of buoyancy moves off the center-line so that further heel begins to lift the water tank / ballast mass. The vectors are actually very good in the case of lower heel angles for effective use of the weight for righting moment. At lower heel angles, vectors are essentially as good as a deep ballast boat. However, when the heel angle gets higher, water ballast is much less effective for righting moment compared to a deeper ballast boat. I brought that up because in addition to being able to pull the main to center for upwind, the long traveler is a huge help for sailing the water ballast boat in higher winds. In high winds, I often just sail the boat completely with the traveler adjusting angle of attack and use all the other controls for sail shape. Ie, traveler is for angle of attack.

Rest of the sail controls are used where they give the best mechanical advantage on this light rig. Vang is for leach tension (forces kept relatively low because the traveler is used for angle of attack), adjustable back stay is used to bend the mast on the fractional rig (leach tension, much better mechanical advantage for bending the mast compared to the vang), outhaul for sail fullness. Cunningham.. draft position (I guess.. this is at the bottom of my list for useful sail control).

My old boat has about the longest side to side traveler track possible given the space and location constraint and the whole length gets used. I have a windward sheet traveler which I really like and added some open turning blocks at either end which I find are very useful for single hand sailing the boat. I put some pictures and a little video of the setup on this old traditional hull water ballast sailiboat below. Ive been on deeper keel boats and of course the traveler is nice but think the traveler is a really great thing on the water ballast boat because it extends the wind range and helps manage the heel angle (ballast works very well at lower heel angles, not so good at high heel angle) in addition to pulling the sail to center for upwind.

 
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  • Helpful
Likes: Will Gilmore
Mar 26, 2011
3,399
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I know the OP doesnt want a water ballast boat from another thread but I have an old 1990 Mac 26S water ballast boat and think that if there was only one sail control I had to pick (besides the sheet), it would be the traveler....
What are the gloves you are wearing? Do you like them?
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,511
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Gloves would probably be a good subject for a separate thread? I have gloves from both WM and the hardware store. My 63 YO hands just like wearing them when sailing, cant really say Im really biased to a particular type or brand, Ive liked about everything I have used. It has been more about how long they last.. cheaper dont last as long.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,399
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Gloves would probably be a good subject for a separate thread? I have gloves from both WM and the hardware store. My 63 YO hands just like wearing them when sailing, cant really say Im really biased to a particular type or brand, Ive liked about everything I have used. It has been more about how long they last.. cheaper dont last as long.
It isn't about cheap. I buy top-end summer gloves (Ronstan Sticky Race). But I struggle to find a winter glove that is reasonably warm, grips well, and is dexterous. IMO, most of the winter sailing gloves suck at any price. My favorite pair (Moutaineering gloves, Pitards Leather palm, windblocker fleece body) is worn out and they dont make them anymore. They weren't cheap, but they lasted.

I would love to see a regular sailing glove, with full fingers and a windblocker fleece back. that would be perfect for 40s-50s.
 
Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
One thing that was not mentioned (I don't think) was easing a straight traveler and how it will increase leech tension due to the radius of boom travel. I never paid much attention to this until our current boat where the traveler track is curved to the same radius of the boom travel. This allows us to change angle of attack with no changes in the sail shape.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
@LeeandRick
Could you please post a picture of the curved traveler? It’s unusual to see a radiused traveller except for self tacking jibs.

Thanks.
Judy
 

RussC

.
Sep 11, 2015
1,578
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
@LeeandRick
Could you please post a picture of the curved traveler? It’s unusual to see a radiused traveller except for self tacking jibs.

Thanks.
Judy
I'd also like to see that. specifically how the traveler line are routed along a curved track
 
Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
If we dont get a picture ill have to google sketchup and prove that out.. Does this traveler curve around the boom or curve up over the cabin top? Some trimarans have humongous travelers / mainsheet tracks.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,399
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
just go to a shoe repair shop and get them repaired, cheaper than new and will last a long time
I like repair, but these were used for a lot of climbing as well as sailing and are trashed all over, from the cuff, to the backing, to the palm and fingers. Well loved.
 
  • Like
Likes: Will Gilmore
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
If we dont get a picture ill have to google sketchup and prove that out.. Does this traveler curve around the boom or curve up over the cabin top? Some trimarans have humongous travelers / mainsheet tracks.
I’m just curious to see where in the cockpit the traveller is installed.

I expect that The geometry is probably very simple. the track would be located such that the center of the arc would be aligned with the vertical pin of the gooseneck, and the radius of the curve would be equal to the distance from the gooseneck pin to the mainsheet.

.
 
May 17, 2004
5,027
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I expect that The geometry is probably very simple. the track would be located such that the center of the arc would be aligned with the vertical pin of the gooseneck, and the radius of the curve would be equal to the distance from the gooseneck pin to the mainsheet.
That’s how the vang on a Star boat works, but the vang is on a car that can slide freely by design. If it needed to be restrained like a mainsheet with a line control car, the geometry is a little harder to envision.
 
Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
Sorry you guys I've been out sailing in the plus 70 ° weather and haven't looked at the computer. I'll get a picture tomorrow. The S2 8.0C (center cockpit) has a radius on the aft coaming, behind the wheel, that matches the radius the boom makes at it's end. End boom sheeting. The boom could be 8" longer to bring the sheet directly over the traveler to relieve torque forces on the traveler car. I'm going to build a carbon fiber boom extension this spring to eliminate this issue. I would buy a new boom (or used one if I could find one with similar moment of inertia) but we already have $20K in a 45 year old boat that would sell for $7000 and I have the cloth and epoxy laying around. But hey, this boat is a fun hobby that keeps my 66 year old brain active:cool:.
 
Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
One thing that was not mentioned (I don't think) was easing a straight traveler and how it will increase leech tension due to the radius of boom travel. I never paid much attention to this until our current boat where the traveler track is curved to the same radius of the boom travel. This allows us to change angle of attack with no changes in the sail shape.
That's pretty cool. I hadn't thought about that. If a sailor starts at position 1 with a level boom, and arbitrarily moves the boom out some angle to position 2 with a straight traveler while keeping the boom absolutely level, it will require more mainsheet. On a curved traveler then angle of the mainsheet stays the same with each position change.
TravOrtho.JPG
 
Mar 29, 2016
89
Cal 21 Sidney, ME
Since my boat lacks a traveler, I have no experience using one. I also have a lot to learn about sail shape. So if the (straight) traveler is eased, and not the mainsheet, and leach tension is thus increased. what effect does that have on sail shape and performance?
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,399
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Since my boat lacks a traveler, I have no experience using one. I also have a lot to learn about sail shape. So if the (straight) traveler is eased, and not the mainsheet, and leach tension is thus increased. what effect does that have on sail shape and performance?
A perceptive question. The answer is it depends on the geometry. It can go either way.

If the sheet is tight and the sheet is perpendicular to the boom or angled forward, the leach is tightened. BUT, if the traveler is being eased a few inches or a foot because of a strong gust, and the sail is polyester, the leach probably stretched a little. No change. Also, the difference in sheet length cause by easing the traveler a foot is a fraction of an inch.


(The sheet is angled aft--easing the traveler eases the leach. It's not actually angled that far--parallax has distorted the image.)


If the sheet angles back (many do) the sheet actually is eased, but again, only a fraction of an inch. If you have laminate sails (I do) this is probably a good thing.

If a straight traveler is eased a lot it generally tightens the leach, but most often this is done off the wind and the sheet is eased anyway.

A curved main traveler is neat, but I'm not sure the advantages are important. A curved traveler on a self tacking jib is different--it really helps, since the sheet is always angled forward.

---

I didn't see a lot of discussion (or missed it) of how the vang does many of the same things, but differenty. On dinghies, the vang will encourage mast bend, which is desired. It also tends to allow the leach to open a little more in gusts, because the spars will flex more (depending on the design).

A traveler leaves less sheet out, reducing the impact of accidental jibes.

It is often physically easier to play the traveler in and out than to sheet in an out in gusts.

With a traveler the main twists when you ease the main. With a tight vang, not so much. Which is better depends on what you want.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,043
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
If the sheet angles back (many do) the sheet actually is eased, but again, only a fraction of an inch. If you have laminate sails (I do) this is probably a good thing.

If a straight traveler is eased a lot it generally tightens the leach, but most often this is done off the wind and the sheet is eased anyway.

A curved main traveler is neat, but I'm not sure the advantages are important. A curved traveler on a self tacking jib is different--it really helps, since the sheet is always angled forward.
I'm pretty sure that my traveler on the bridge deck has the sheet angled back slightly when the boom is at the centerline. I was thinking the same thing … easing the traveler would ease the leech, but only to a point. Maybe when the traveler is all the way to the outboard end, the sheet may angle slightly forward. The bale on the boom may be directly over the traveler car when the car is midway between centerline and the outboard end. In any case, it hardly makes a difference. I guess if the traveler is all the way back at the stern, it could make a difference. I've never thought that the stern is a good place for a traveler, I guess.

Also, on many larger boats, the main sheet is fixed to the boom at multiple locations with blocks to distribute the load for mid-boom sheeting. In these cases, the traveler is normally across the coach roof. That causes numerous complications in the geometry of the lines thru the blocks as the boom swings beyond centerline. I pretty much doubt that there is any effect on the leech in these circumstances.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,043
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Since my boat lacks a traveler, I have no experience using one. I also have a lot to learn about sail shape. So if the (straight) traveler is eased, and not the mainsheet, and leach tension is thus increased. what effect does that have on sail shape and performance?
Probably not enough to even think about. This is the first time in 16 years on this forum that I have even seen this issue raised! ;) Not that it hasn't been discussed before, but I've paid attention to a lot of sail trim discussions and it is a new one to me! Maybe it's flown right by me in the past.