Traveler theory

markwbird · Feb 4, 2020

I had a C25. The traveler is not worth a damn. I don't think there is much theory there. It moves a little, I guess.

dlochner · Feb 4, 2020

A traveller controls the location of the boom relative to the midship line.

The mainsheet controls the tension on the boom and subsequently the sail shape.

A short traveller on the transom is pretty limited in its ability to control the boom. It will be helpful up wind and limited on downwind runs. If it is not easily adjusted, just leaving it set in the midship position is the best option.

jon hansen · Feb 4, 2020

of course in light and moderate winds you want twist in your sails for max pulling by your foils do to your apparent wind being a different direction as the wind aloft increases in speed over the wind on the deck. boom vang is also used for sail shape.

Stu Jackson · Feb 4, 2020

Many discussions about travelers on this forum. I had a C25 for 13 years. The traveler on that boat does work to center the boom going upwind, as narrow as it looks, it does work. You need to use a LOT of vang going downwind, since by then the mainsheet is let way out.

jimshipsky said:

Having looked at more photos of the Cat25 traveler, I see control lines enabling it to be adjusted. Still I wonder about the non-adjustable one on my old Town Class.

Click to expand

Who knows? Maybe control lines were missing.

If you want to learn more, get Don Guilette's excellent Sail Trim Guide, available right here on sbo. It's the best, the very best, sail trim book I have ever seen and I've been sailing and reading for 50+ years.

rgranger · Feb 4, 2020

There is one more thing twist does. It also allows you to delay reefing. If you are on a beam reach and you are starting to feel a little over powered, you can bring your traveler all the way to windward, then ease the sheet out to put the boom at mid-ship (or a little more to leeward if needed). This will induce a large amount of twist mostly at the top of the sail ...thus spilling a lot of the wind up high thus reducing heel. I tried to draw a picture but my artistic talents are lacking... most boats, especially water ballast boats, sail faster when they are flatter. If you are a lake sailor, reefing can be a pain since you are very likely to change your heading soon... and if that heading puts the wind at your back, you don't want to have to shake out a reef moments after you just put it in. I have also noticed when pointing high that if I can keep the boom near mid-ship and have only a little twist, I will sail flatter and faster than simply bringing the boom mid-ship with the sheet. My H26 does not have a traveler (yet) and so I bring the boom mid-ship by using a line to the sheet and physically pulling the boom over. You can feel the difference immediately. I do have a photo of that....

Joe · Feb 4, 2020

If you read Don's book all this confusion will be clarified. My first suggestion is to think ---mainsail--- rather than --- boom. The sail is a flexible, vibrant being...with infinite adjustments in shape and position. The boom, however, is an inanimate, rigid spar that simply supports the living sail and some of its controls. Your job as a sailor is to employ all the boat's available tools to maximize the sail's efficiency.

So.... if a shortened, non adjustable traveler limits angle of attack adjustments.... use another tool to get the effect you want. Perhaps setting the twist (leech tension) with the boom vang will allow you to use the mainsheet to take over as the angle of attack controller. The sail's curve, not the boom position, determines angle of attack. The outhaul can flatten the sail and effectively change angle of attack without moving the boom.
Give it some thought......

Don Guillette · Feb 4, 2020

My good friends for many years on the SAIL TRIM FORUM - Stu & Joe from San Diego - have given the straight scoop on the traveler. I'll just add a piece I've outlined a million times on the forum and at sail trim seminars. ALL the traveler adjusts is the ANGLE OF ATTACK. It does not change the shape of the sail and has nothing to do with twist, draft depth or draft position.

You have to understand ANGLE OF ATTACK to understand the function of the traveler. Here's the example I use which doesn't describe angle of attack but explains how the traveler functions. Picture a screen door with a pin in the bottom corner that rides in a groove in the floor. Does the shape of the screen door change when you open and close the door? Obviously it doesn't and neither does the shape of the mainsail when you move the traveler. The shape doesn't change and here's how I use it to depower or increase the power of the boat. Say you're hit by a gust and the boat is starting to be over powered. You could use the mainsheet and if you don't have a traveler that's your option or you could use the boom vang to induce twist (spill air out of the top of the sail) but the easiest thing to do is don't touch those controls and merely drop the traveler. The boat will come back on it's feet and as soon as the gust passes you re set the traveler to it's original position and sail on your way.

Stu Jackson · Feb 4, 2020

Don Guillette said:
but the easiest thing to do is don't touch those controls and merely drop the traveler. The boat will come back on it's feet and as soon as the gust passes you re set the traveler to it's original position and sail on your way.

Good point, Don. To add: with quality gear on a traveler, like Garhauer's 5 or 6:1 sheaves, it is MUCH easier to adjust the traveler back to the original position than it is to crank the mainsheet back in, especially on boats with mid-boom/cabintop sheeting.

Hunter216 · Feb 4, 2020

jimshipsky said:
My current understanding of traveler use is you can use it to ease the mainsail to leeward to reduce heeling without inducing twist. Or you can move the traveler to windward to point higher, with a possible decrease in speed.
My question has to do with travelers that are not controllable. Years ago I sailed a Town Class sloop that had a brass rod on the stern shaped like a towel rack, on which the mainsheet block slid. This meant the mainsheet block was always to leeward of center. Now that I'm looking to buy a Catalina 25, apparently some of them have a similar traveler. Any ideas on the theory of always having the mainsail eased to leeward?
View attachment 174678

Photo of traveller setup from the Cat 25 manual found here

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/Cat25manpre88.pdf

The car can be placed anywhere on the traveller “towel bar” that you want using the control lines. The reasons to move it are explained very well in the previous posts. I’ve found using a traveller very useful in improving the safety, performance and comfort level of the boat. The boats I’ve been on typically have the traveller mounted across the cockpit on the seating surface, I believe they are aptly referred to as $&@!! shin busters!

Having this on the stern is a nice touch IMHO.

Hunter216 · Feb 4, 2020

jimshipsky said:
Hunter216: Thanks so much for the link to the manual. I hope to buy a Cat25 soon, and it may well not have occurred to me to get my hands on the manual. Without it, I'd have tried stepping the mast with all shrouds attached, as works with my Cal21. The manual says the two forward lower shrouds must be free. Possible disaster averted! Also, I had no idea the backstay adjuster was standard.

Your welcome. Please understand I’ve never been on a Cal 25 so I don’t have first hand knowledge of whether the manual is accurate or not, I just searched Cal 25 traveller and found the link

Stu Jackson · Feb 4, 2020

jimshipsky said:
I hope to buy a Cat25 soon, and it may well not have occurred to me to get my hands on the manual.

Jim, are you aware of the C25 Association website and forum?

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/

Hunter216 · Feb 4, 2020

rgranger said:
I bring the boom mid-ship by using a line to the sheet

Interesting approach to bring the boom to center but what happens if you need to sheet out the main in a BIG hurry? Is there not a strong possibility that the constrictor loop you have around the mainsheet might create a problem?

Don Guillette · Feb 4, 2020

When I got back into sailing after many years on jet boats, my 1st boat was a Mac22. We bought the Mac because we were sick of our youngsters bringing the jet boat back in pieces!! I used the Mac on the Colorado River (Lake Havasu, AZ) where the wind blows at 90 knots or zero but really wanted to use it on the ocean in So Ca so I hauled it home. The 1st time outside the Long Beach, Ca breakwater my wife said those magic words any guy wants to hear --"perhaps we should buy a bigger boat!!". Within a few weeks I owned a Catalina 25. Most of the principles of sail trim include in my book and chart were worked out on that boat. The rest were worked out on a Catalina 30 after my wife uttered those magic words again.

Anyway, back to the traveler. Personally, it's too short on the C25 but it's better than nothing. My C25 traveler was basic and had none of the stuff shown in the drawing. I had plans to make it longer but they never materialized.

Don Guillette · Feb 4, 2020

jimshipsky said:
Thank you, Don. It appears there is considerable misinformation out there about this as well as other aspects of sail trim. I find your clarity refreshing. Guess I'd better buy your book!
It dawned on me that just because when I bought that Townie there were no controls rigged for the traveler, that there shouldn't have been.

Jim: You're right - there is a lot of misinformation out there. Folks mean well but some of the stuff presented is just incorrect. There are 8 primary controls for the mainsail and 6 for the jib. They all have to work together in a particular fashion for each point of sail and wind condition. If they don't it's like shifting a sports car into 2nd and flooring it and then pulling up on the emergency break!!

A lot of folks focus on the sail trim controls. What they should be focusing on is WHAT the sail trim controls are adjusting. There is only 4 element that ALL the controls are adjusting and that is draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack -- that's it and if a sailor doesn't completely understand those terms sail trim will never make any sense.

Not to take anything away from some of the forums on sailboatowners.com and I don't want to hurt anyone's feeling but if you want the straight skinny on sail trim just hop over to the SAIL TRIM FORUM - there's nothing like it anywhere on the internet. That's where I met Joe from San Diego and Stu and bunch more guys who know more about sail trim than I'll ever know. I'm just a country hillbilly/common seaman who can't give scientific presentations. I just give simple explanations and those guys fill in the rest.

Buy the book and chart - it's sold with a money back guarantee. I've sold over 19,000 to every country in the world and have had only ONE returned - a MIT professor told me the chart laminate was too thin, which I promptly doubled!!

rgranger · Feb 4, 2020

Hunter216 said:
Interesting approach to bring the boom to center but what happens if you need to sheet out the main in a BIG hurry? Is there not a strong possibility that the constrictor loop you have around the mainsheet might create a problem?

Maybe! Hasn't happened yet. That tie is actually one of my sail ties and the loop is sewn so it does not clench around the sheet too tightly. I usually leave it attached and have had no problem letting out the sail on a run etc. The line easily slips through the loop. But I take your point. I purchased some T-track this winter and when it gets warm enough.... I hope to install some genoa tracks and then I hope to design a traveler system. Crazy Dave keeps trying to talk me out of it but... I think I want one. This is the first boat I've owned without a traveler and I find the limitations frustrating. I really like the Barton Marine removable traveler and I think I can design my own around that concept for a few hundred dollars.

Sites-WestMarine-Site

West Marine

www.westmarine.com

dlochner · Feb 4, 2020

rgranger said:
Maybe! Hasn't happened yet. That tie is actually one of my sail ties and the loop is sewn so it does not clench around the sheet too tightly. I usually leave it attached and have had no problem letting out the sail on a run etc. The line easily slips through the loop. But I take your point. I purchased some T-track this winter and when it gets warm enough.... I hope to install some genoa tracks and then I hope to design a traveler system. Crazy Dave keeps trying to talk me out of it but... I think I want one. This is the first boat I've owned without a traveler and I find the limitations frustrating. I really like the Barton Marine removable traveler and I think I can design my own around that concept for a few hundred dollars.

Sites-WestMarine-Site

West Marine

www.westmarine.com

Interesting concept. The concerns with after market installations like this traveller are the loads to which the traveller will be subjected and will it be strong enough to accept the continuous loads (sailing upwind in a good breeze) and the shock loads (an accidental gybe in a stiff breeze). While the traveller track may be strong enough, will the attachment points be strong enough? And what modifications to the cockpit structures will be necessary to make them strong enough.

Traveler theory

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