Trailer Toungue Extension

[LakeShark]

Ok so I realize this is an older thread but how did your extension work? I have a similar issue that I need to repair this spring.

I have a Catalina 22 wing keel on a modified trailer. Make, model, etc.… tags are unreadable on the trailer but that is not what matters. It has an extendable receiver that looks to be about 10’ from trailer front to ball when extended. The extension is 1 ½ square tube (wall thickness unknown) that when extended bends over 2.5’ (yes feet) to the ground. That makes it useless as even the trailer jack can’t be lowered far enough. So I drilled holes to shorten the stopping point to about 6 feet of extension. However the thing still bends over a foot and I know I am playing with fire as the extension is permanently bent and is a pain to put back.

To answer the obvious questions in Minnesota the ramps are designed for fishing boats and almost all of them are very shallow so I need the extension at every launch. I am trying to find a cost effective way to solve this and your plan looks the best. However I am concerned with what tube size to use to alleviate bend and allow me to stand on the trailer to winch the boat up tight. I was thinking of adding a 3” ¼ wall square tube and mounting it under or beside the current hitch in a short section of 4” square tube so that it will slide back and forth but perhaps this is over kill.

I believe modifying the current main tube will be cost prohibitive as it would involve structural changes to the trailer frame itself as you can see in the photos. My question is will the 3” tube support the weight or is it too overkill? I am estimating the load at the front of the trailer with me standing on it to wench the boat from the water at 800lbs or so after the weight of the new steel is added ( 120lbs steel, Me @ 260lbs and tongue weight 420? guessing). Doing the math using the axle as the fulcrum to the hitch the total span is about 20 feet and I think the tube will bend 2.243” (inches) but the whole assembly will add over 120lbs to the front of the trailer.

Is this a bad idea? Does adding the extension off center affect the ability to back the trailer straight? Should the extension be welded to the trailer using larger tube or will U bolts work? Does anyone have a better idea? Currently the boat is buried in the snow but this spring this will be one of my first projects for the year and I want to get everything lined up. I am mainly asking around to see what works best and @Cincy020 you seem to have the best looking setup I have found that wont break the bank.

 

[Jacomo Sailor]

Ok so I realize this is an older thread but how did your extension work? I have a similar issue that I need to repair this spring.

I have a Catalina 22 wing keel on a modified trailer. Make, model, etc.… tags are unreadable on the trailer...

My C22 sits on the exact same trailer. I don't remember the make & model right off the top of my head, but I can get it for you the next time I'm at the boat if you'd like to look up or consult the manufacturer. Mine has a fair amount of flex when the tongue is extended all the way too, but not nearly the amount you describe. One thing I notice from your photo is your boat appears to sit about a foot farther forward on the trailer than mine. That one foot can make a big difference in tongue weight, contributing to the degree of extension flex. It might be worth experimenting with the boat's position on the trailer before going to the expense and hassle of modifying the trailer.

 

[CaptDon01]

I would agree with Jacomo Sailor's observation on the axle location. I've owned three wing keeled C-22's and as you can see in the photos, all three had the axle pretty close to dead center of the wing keel. He might have identified the problem, or at least an issue.

Don

 

[Jacomo Sailor]

Here's how mine sits on the trailer. Notice where the bow roller is in relation to where it is on yours.

 

[LakeShark]

Nice Catch fellas. I had not even considered that as a possibility. @Jacomo Sailor if you happen to know the manufacture for the trailer that would be great for future reference. You are correct in that out trailers look the same. Attached is a picture of how the boat currently rides on the trailer and it is much further forward. My bunk boards come way up in the back which always looked a bit odd but the PO said he had just redone them when we bought the boat SO i didn't give it much thought.

 

[LakeShark]

@CaptDon01 from your pictures it looks like I need to center the keel on the axle. Its above freezing today so I was able to sneak a few pictures under the tarp of the boat in the yard and take some measurements. My keel is currently 6 inches forward of the axle from the very rear of the wing. since I cant see the top of the boat and estimating center of the keel it looks like the whole boat is 18 to 20 inches forward of the axle. Does this mean that the tongue has been bearing 90% of the weight of the boat? I noticed that in one of your pictures the boat does not meet the stop at the front and I was wondering if this was an issue while towing. I can unbolt and move my winch stand back up to 24 inches so in the long term that will likely be what I do. I also checked the extension and it is 2 inch square tube in a 2.5 inch receiver. Doing the math it should not be bending as far as it does. Is there just that much weight off center? What size extension tube are you using these days? Thanks again for all your help fellas. Moving the boat on the trailer may save me $$ on a welder.

[/USER]

 

[CaptDon01]

You're definitely too far forward. Yes, the keel should be centered over the axle, or at least pretty close. The one boat had an adapted trailer, towed nice with the keel centered over the axle. Even with my Trail-Rite C-22 trailer the bow doesn't always run all the way up in the forward V-block. I pull it up with the winch, but once the boat comes out of the water and settles on the trailer, there is always some room between the bow and the forward top V-block. But I run a 2" ratchet strap up and over the bow, and under the trailer frame, and cinch it down. It's not going anywhere, and there is no bounce. The last photo shows the forward ratchet strap, and I also run a 2" strap at the cockpit. The other photos show us launching or recovering the boat. My Trail-Rite trailer has a built in extension that is probably 3" X 3" square heavy wall tubing I believe. The Trail-Rite trailer is the only one I've seen that builds the tongue at a slight downward angle. This helps tip the boat back slightly making launching and recovering easier. All the other trailers I've seen the tongues are parallel with the trailer frame.

Don

 

[Gene Neill]

That rig is so awesome. I wanna be CaptDon when I grow up!

 

[Persistence]

I also use the strap method with great success and no hassle.

How would you retrieve your boat using the strap method?

 

[LakeShark]

That rig is so awesome. I wanna be CaptDon when I grow up!

I totally agree that the rig is awesome. However who wants to grow up? Peter Pan once said "all the grownups are pirates". To me the life of a lost boy has always been more appealing. But I could easily get lost with a rig like that.

 

[Jacomo Sailor]

The trailer is An Ideal Trailer manufactured by Ideal Welding in Chicago.

I had tried to do some research on it when I first got mine but didn't really turn up much. The company doesn't appear to be around any longer but I don't know when they went out. I had assumed that mine was probably from the early 80's, but it may be much older. I don't believe they built trailers for specific boats, but rather universal trailers that could be adjusted to fit a variety of boats. One of the few things I turned up on the company was this listing in a 1967 issue of Boating magazine.

 

[solosailier]

How do position the sailboat to lower it down the ramp with a tow strap?

 

[LakeShark]

The balance or position of the boat on the trailer itself does not change. The difference is that instead of using a steel tube to extend the trailer you use the trailer jack and unhitch the trailer. With the strap attached between the trailer and the vehicle you give a push over the edge of the ramp and then use the vehicle to back the trailer down and pill it back out. You will need a strong jack and wheel on the trailer tongue or a Spair tire mounted to a hub that can roll once the trailer is disconnected. Search the archives here and under the all sailors board and there is lots of information and even some pictures.

 

[LakeShark]

The trailer is An Ideal Trailer manufactured by Ideal Welding in Chicago.

@Jacomo Sailor I just realized I never replied. Thank you so much for this information on the trailer. It has been very helpful and I think once I get the boat balanced properly I will solve 90% of my issues. How much bend do you get while launching on the extension 6 inches, a foot? I can't wait for spring!

 

[LakeShark]

@CaptDon01 & @Jacomo Sailor thank you both for your help. I wound up having the balance correct with the keel still a bit forward of the axle but I wound up having to change the axle to a heavier one to handle the weight of the boat as it is 4380 lb loaded going down the road. For the extension I wound up leaving the old one in place because it adds some rigidity to the trailer and having a new bolt on extension made by a local welder. They fabricated a 3.5 inch tube that would clamp to the trailer and put a 3 inch 1/4 wall tube inside to handle the load. In total I gain about 7 to 8 feet of extension this way but if I need a few more feet I can allow the inner tube to slide out a bit further but I will need to drill a 2nd pin hole. I could not find anyone local to galvanize the tube so paint it was for the final finish. I know it will rust but since I sail in freshwater and the trailer itself is painted I think Ill be alright. The basic design is this:
1. Pull out extension just far enough to couple to the vehicle
2. Hitch up the truck and pull forward with the wheels blocked till I hear the thud of the stop bolt hit the outer tube on the extension
3. Pin extension, remove blocks and launch.

In a driveway test run it works ok and only has about 2 inches of deflection on the tube.

Here are a few pictures of the system: Total cost of extension $300

Notice no sharp bolts to snag your feet in the water and the extension is spaced about 2.5 inches below the current frame.