Agreed !
I don't remember seeing "Out of sight, out of mind" in any of the books I've read about boat maintenance.
"Who knows what evil lurks in that pile of built up epoxy under the sink ?"
Da Shadow know.
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Thru-Hull Replacement - How do I get through this mess?
- Thread starter TrapperJohn
- Start date
I don't remember seeing "Out of sight, out of mind" in any of the books I've read about boat maintenance.
"Who knows what evil lurks in that pile of built up epoxy under the sink ?"
Da Shadow know.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,455
Through-hulls are critical components on a sailboat. There is knowing or not - their condition. There is no middle ground in my world.
I had a concern regarding my through-hulls that needed resolution. I acted on the concern and was surprised by the facts.
I had a concern regarding my through-hulls that needed resolution. I acted on the concern and was surprised by the facts.
TIMING - What are you waiting for?
Timing: the ability to select the precise moment for doing something for optimum effect, On your boat, how do you judge that the timing is right? To change your thru hull. To buy new sails To change your oil To fill the fuel tank Do you count the days, weeks, months since your last change...
forums.sailboatowners.com
Well, I've finally gotten far enough to have some (but not all of the) answers.
I started with the oscillating tool with carbide bits to clear a lot of the big pile away but it was slow going. I couldn't get around the back of the valve too well because of the clearances. Then I took a 4" angle grinder with a cutting wheel to break away some larger chunks. Kept alternating between the oscillating tool and the grinder until some bronze started showing next to the valve.
This got me thinking there was more than I was expecting so I went outside and sanded away the bottom paint around this thru-hull. Lo and behold, there were three bolts and what appears to be an inset flange head. Of course, none of the bolts would budge.
After this, I went back inside and became a little more aggressive with a grinding wheel which removed most to the rest of the pile. At this point, I couldn't see any joints where the valve may have been threaded in place nor did it look like there was a nut on the thru-hill fitting either.There were no markings on the valve body that gave me a clue about the manufacturer or model. Since progress seemed so slow, I decided to cut the valve off so I could work a little easier.
From what I could see, this was a one piece thru-hull similar to the Groco models on their web site. This is the point where I realized my hull isn't as thick as I thought. My original guess was at the head discharge hull fitting which is just above the turn of the hull down to the encapsulated keel. I could feel no joint until my finger got all the way up to the ball retainer which was up much higher. I now think the laminate is about 5/8 - 3/4 inches in the area I'm working which leaves me less room for errors.
I used the grinder to work my way further down until I finally found the flange that is bolted in place. You can make out the outline in this picture.
Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be any joint where the thru-hull screws in to anything. There are no "dog ears" inside to hold or screw in the thru-hull fitting either. This is where I started to worry if this whole assembly was installed with 5200.
Looking inside the valve, I could see similar corrosion/wear to what I saw at the other valves. It's definitely pitted but there's no way to tell if the ball is actually water-tight at the seat/sealing area. (This picture isn't as clear as I thought at the time.)
The tailpiece wasn't galvanized pipe, as I originally thought, either. It's made of some type of plastic but I couldn't tell anything about it from the markings.
I still haven't gotten the thru-hull out nor anything to move. My next step is to try to cut the flange out without going too far into the laminate. Then I'll try pushing the thru-hull out.
If you got this far, thanks for reading. I wanted this to be a tutorial for anyone else that may be "blessed" with this construction technique. I'll keep you posted when this is finished.
I started with the oscillating tool with carbide bits to clear a lot of the big pile away but it was slow going. I couldn't get around the back of the valve too well because of the clearances. Then I took a 4" angle grinder with a cutting wheel to break away some larger chunks. Kept alternating between the oscillating tool and the grinder until some bronze started showing next to the valve.
This got me thinking there was more than I was expecting so I went outside and sanded away the bottom paint around this thru-hull. Lo and behold, there were three bolts and what appears to be an inset flange head. Of course, none of the bolts would budge.
After this, I went back inside and became a little more aggressive with a grinding wheel which removed most to the rest of the pile. At this point, I couldn't see any joints where the valve may have been threaded in place nor did it look like there was a nut on the thru-hill fitting either.There were no markings on the valve body that gave me a clue about the manufacturer or model. Since progress seemed so slow, I decided to cut the valve off so I could work a little easier.
From what I could see, this was a one piece thru-hull similar to the Groco models on their web site. This is the point where I realized my hull isn't as thick as I thought. My original guess was at the head discharge hull fitting which is just above the turn of the hull down to the encapsulated keel. I could feel no joint until my finger got all the way up to the ball retainer which was up much higher. I now think the laminate is about 5/8 - 3/4 inches in the area I'm working which leaves me less room for errors.
I used the grinder to work my way further down until I finally found the flange that is bolted in place. You can make out the outline in this picture.
Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be any joint where the thru-hull screws in to anything. There are no "dog ears" inside to hold or screw in the thru-hull fitting either. This is where I started to worry if this whole assembly was installed with 5200.
Looking inside the valve, I could see similar corrosion/wear to what I saw at the other valves. It's definitely pitted but there's no way to tell if the ball is actually water-tight at the seat/sealing area. (This picture isn't as clear as I thought at the time.)
The tailpiece wasn't galvanized pipe, as I originally thought, either. It's made of some type of plastic but I couldn't tell anything about it from the markings.
I still haven't gotten the thru-hull out nor anything to move. My next step is to try to cut the flange out without going too far into the laminate. Then I'll try pushing the thru-hull out.
If you got this far, thanks for reading. I wanted this to be a tutorial for anyone else that may be "blessed" with this construction technique. I'll keep you posted when this is finished.
Well, the only positive remark is that when you finish the replacement of this first valve assembly, at least you will have a complete understanding of how to attack the remaining seacocks. After viewing your dissection, you obviously had a “proper“ seacock; still a mystery of why the mound of epoxy around the valve. No doubt it’s an arduous job. obviously, the original installer had no regards for the individual who would replace them. Hang in there.
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It would be difficult for that ball to fully seal looking at its condition. It would probably weep when closed.
What a job! That's just amazing someone thought that was a good way to install those thru hulls... For sure no thought to when they would need to be changed....
dj
What a job! That's just amazing someone thought that was a good way to install those thru hulls... For sure no thought to when they would need to be changed....
dj
I wonder if a PO (we always blame the Prior Owner) tried to remove the seacock and flange at some point and damaged or cut off the nuts. When that didn't work or it became too big a job or leaked, tried to fix it with a lump of resin and glass.
From this point on as you prep the area for reglassing, a 36 or 40 grit flap disc might be less damaging than a grinding disk. The deep gouges from the grinding disk need to be eased.
@TrapperJohn - Excellent photo essay! You will be proud of your work when you are done. Please post a final picture for us to enjoy.
Thank you for taking the time to write this up and post all the great pictures. For many of these sorts of jobs, many of us don't know what sorts of things to expect until we do it ourselves for the first time. Posts like these really help the community.
I wonder if you could drill out the three bolts from the inside and get a chisel and lightly chisel around the edges of the base on the inside and maybe get it to pop off.
My 1980 boat has similar arrangement. They also used a lot of resin filler. It breaks up very easily with a sharp wood chisel. Its actually easier than grinding it sometimes. If you can pop it from the hull. A flap wheel on a grinder will take a few minutes to clean it all up.
I know I’m late to the party, but I wanted to write and say thanks to the OP for posting these photos and the story. I have a1984 Morgan 323 and the through hulls are identical, right down to the mounds around them. I was always wondering what assembly was in there. OP, do you have any follow up photos as you put it back together?
Thanks!
Well, I've finally gotten far enough to have some (but not all of the) answers.
I started with the oscillating tool with carbide bits to clear a lot of the big pile away but it was slow going. I couldn't get around the back of the valve too well because of the clearances. Then I took a 4" angle grinder with a cutting wheel to break away some larger chunks. Kept alternating between the oscillating tool and the grinder until some bronze started showing next to the valve.
View attachment 232110
This got me thinking there was more than I was expecting so I went outside and sanded away the bottom paint around this thru-hull. Lo and behold, there were three bolts and what appears to be an inset flange head. Of course, none of the bolts would budge.
View attachment 232111
After this, I went back inside and became a little more aggressive with a grinding wheel which removed most to the rest of the pile. At this point, I couldn't see any joints where the valve may have been threaded in place nor did it look like there was a nut on the thru-hill fitting either.There were no markings on the valve body that gave me a clue about the manufacturer or model. Since progress seemed so slow, I decided to cut the valve off so I could work a little easier.
View attachment 232112
View attachment 232113
From what I could see, this was a one piece thru-hull similar to the Groco models on their web site. This is the point where I realized my hull isn't as thick as I thought. My original guess was at the head discharge hull fitting which is just above the turn of the hull down to the encapsulated keel. I could feel no joint until my finger got all the way up to the ball retainer which was up much higher. I now think the laminate is about 5/8 - 3/4 inches in the area I'm working which leaves me less room for errors.
I used the grinder to work my way further down until I finally found the flange that is bolted in place. You can make out the outline in this picture.
View attachment 232114
Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be any joint where the thru-hull screws in to anything. There are no "dog ears" inside to hold or screw in the thru-hull fitting either. This is where I started to worry if this whole assembly was installed with 5200.
Looking inside the valve, I could see similar corrosion/wear to what I saw at the other valves. It's definitely pitted but there's no way to tell if the ball is actually water-tight at the seat/sealing area. (This picture isn't as clear as I thought at the time.)
View attachment 232115
The tailpiece wasn't galvanized pipe, as I originally thought, either. It's made of some type of plastic but I couldn't tell anything about it from the markings.
View attachment 232116
I still haven't gotten the thru-hull out nor anything to move. My next step is to try to cut the flange out without going too far into the laminate. Then I'll try pushing the thru-hull out.
If you got this far, thanks for reading. I wanted this to be a tutorial for anyone else that may be "blessed" with this construction technique. I'll keep you posted when this is finished.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks!
Well, I've finally gotten far enough to have some (but not all of the) answers.
I started with the oscillating tool with carbide bits to clear a lot of the big pile away but it was slow going. I couldn't get around the back of the valve too well because of the clearances. Then I took a 4" angle grinder with a cutting wheel to break away some larger chunks. Kept alternating between the oscillating tool and the grinder until some bronze started showing next to the valve.
View attachment 232110
This got me thinking there was more than I was expecting so I went outside and sanded away the bottom paint around this thru-hull. Lo and behold, there were three bolts and what appears to be an inset flange head. Of course, none of the bolts would budge.
View attachment 232111
After this, I went back inside and became a little more aggressive with a grinding wheel which removed most to the rest of the pile. At this point, I couldn't see any joints where the valve may have been threaded in place nor did it look like there was a nut on the thru-hill fitting either.There were no markings on the valve body that gave me a clue about the manufacturer or model. Since progress seemed so slow, I decided to cut the valve off so I could work a little easier.
View attachment 232112
View attachment 232113
From what I could see, this was a one piece thru-hull similar to the Groco models on their web site. This is the point where I realized my hull isn't as thick as I thought. My original guess was at the head discharge hull fitting which is just above the turn of the hull down to the encapsulated keel. I could feel no joint until my finger got all the way up to the ball retainer which was up much higher. I now think the laminate is about 5/8 - 3/4 inches in the area I'm working which leaves me less room for errors.
I used the grinder to work my way further down until I finally found the flange that is bolted in place. You can make out the outline in this picture.
View attachment 232114
Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be any joint where the thru-hull screws in to anything. There are no "dog ears" inside to hold or screw in the thru-hull fitting either. This is where I started to worry if this whole assembly was installed with 5200.
Looking inside the valve, I could see similar corrosion/wear to what I saw at the other valves. It's definitely pitted but there's no way to tell if the ball is actually water-tight at the seat/sealing area. (This picture isn't as clear as I thought at the time.)
View attachment 232115
The tailpiece wasn't galvanized pipe, as I originally thought, either. It's made of some type of plastic but I couldn't tell anything about it from the markings.
View attachment 232116
I still haven't gotten the thru-hull out nor anything to move. My next step is to try to cut the flange out without going too far into the laminate. Then I'll try pushing the thru-hull out.
If you got this far, thanks for reading. I wanted this to be a tutorial for anyone else that may be "blessed" with this construction technique. I'll keep you posted when this is finished.
[/QUOTE]
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,455
You might consider drilling the screws. This might allow you to remove the through hull without cutting into the hull on the inside. You may still have to, but I would resist that if I could.
For the through hull, you might consider using a hole saw just larger than the existing through hull, as long as you can get a new through hull the size of your hole saw. I stuck a wood plug in the hole and used it to center the hole saw when I did that to my boat.
For the through hull, you might consider using a hole saw just larger than the existing through hull, as long as you can get a new through hull the size of your hole saw. I stuck a wood plug in the hole and used it to center the hole saw when I did that to my boat.
Hi GerryL,
I see you missed this thread which I posted after I completed the job.
This year I'm tackling a couple more and I'm not going to be so timid. My plan of attack is just grind down around the valve until I see some brass, cut the valve off and then finish removing the plastic ring & flange. FWIW, just grind off the nuts when you get down far enough, go buy an EZ-Out kit at Lowe's such as this and drill the bolt and then use the extractor. Make sure you center punch the bolt head before drilling so the drill bit doesn't slip and chip up the hull. I used the Irwin brand since I've always had good luck with them not breaking as I torgue the errant bolt. I can't remember the size (1/4" or 5/16") and that toolbox is on the boat right now.
Two last things that I should've posted in the thru-hull follow up thread:
- In the fall, when they pulled the boat, I was going to grease it using a zerk. Where it was located under the sink, I couldn't get enough access to put a zerk on. I ended up buying SS zerks made by Groco somewhere on the web since all the NAPA/Auto Zone/etc. zerks were either aluminum or carbon steel. Defender had the Groco grease with the marine growth additive in 3oz cartridges. You can use any lube you want but I needed to bump up my cart to get the free shipping at the time. This summer I'll be pulling the valve and fitting the zerk before re-mounting the valve.
- When threading the ball valve on the flange, make sure you can turn the valve handle the full 90 degrees without hitting an obstruction when you get to the final position.
Glad the first post helped!
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