I just succesfully replaced my head, and wouldn't you know it......after two trips the thru hull handle gets stripped. Fortunately it is locked in the closed position. The thru hull is the old wheel (garden hose) handle, obviously I need to replace this part, but I noticed that there is a threaded nut holding the check valve and handle to the thru hull. Does anybody know the typical size standard for a 1977 Cat 27 (assuming original thru hull)? Also checking out West's web site it looks like they have complete units, so any info on where I can find just the check valve/lever would be helpful. Thanks. Sean
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
G
GARRY @ S/V TASHTEGO
Thru Hull Problem
Well, you have a problem to solve. The original thru hull fittings on the Cat 27 were simple pipe stubs glassed into the hull. These are less than ideally safe and you should replace them with a proper thru hull fitting. The gate valves (the ones with the garden hose handle) should be replaced throughout. I say should because I haven't done mine yet. If you decide to use the old Catalina thru hulls you can replace the gate valves with bronze ball valves. These valves have tapered pipe threads as do the pipe stubs in your hull. If you do replace the thru hull fittings you will find that the new thru hulls have straight pipe threads. DO NOT put a tapered thread ball valve on a straight thread thru hull. Only a couple of threads will bear, the rocking force of opening and closing the valve will be taken out on these few threads and you are looking for trouble. True sea cocks have straight threads because the thru hulls have straight threads. The thru hulls have straight threads because there is no telling beforehand how thick the hull material is and a tapered thread might snug up before the thru hull is tight. I am facing this problem on TASHTEGO and I'm not looking forward to it but I will do it right with new thru hull fittings and proper sea cocks. I note that on TASHTEGO the engine cooling water comes through a thru hull with strainer which appears to have a straight thread with a gate valve attached, probably with tapered threads. This gives me the willies. Good luck, Garry
Well, you have a problem to solve. The original thru hull fittings on the Cat 27 were simple pipe stubs glassed into the hull. These are less than ideally safe and you should replace them with a proper thru hull fitting. The gate valves (the ones with the garden hose handle) should be replaced throughout. I say should because I haven't done mine yet. If you decide to use the old Catalina thru hulls you can replace the gate valves with bronze ball valves. These valves have tapered pipe threads as do the pipe stubs in your hull. If you do replace the thru hull fittings you will find that the new thru hulls have straight pipe threads. DO NOT put a tapered thread ball valve on a straight thread thru hull. Only a couple of threads will bear, the rocking force of opening and closing the valve will be taken out on these few threads and you are looking for trouble. True sea cocks have straight threads because the thru hulls have straight threads. The thru hulls have straight threads because there is no telling beforehand how thick the hull material is and a tapered thread might snug up before the thru hull is tight. I am facing this problem on TASHTEGO and I'm not looking forward to it but I will do it right with new thru hull fittings and proper sea cocks. I note that on TASHTEGO the engine cooling water comes through a thru hull with strainer which appears to have a straight thread with a gate valve attached, probably with tapered threads. This gives me the willies. Good luck, Garry
B
Bob Camarena
Here's a Temporary Fix
This isn't ideal, but will keep you in business until your next haul out when you can do it right. I'm assuming that there is some shaft left since you said stripped and not sheared off. Buy a ball valve and "stack" it on to your old gate valve using a properly sized piece of bronze pipe to connect the new to the old (both should have standard tapered pipe threads as explained by Garry). Now open the gate valve with a pair of vise grips on the shaft and use the ball valve to turn things on and off. If I recall properly, I think the size is 1/2" standard plumbing parts if you're talking head inlet. Replacing the pipe nipples with proper thru hulls is a major project (check the archives). My previous 27 was and my current 30 were/are fresh water boats and the pipe nipples were sound so I just replaced the gate valves with ball valves. A couple were so tight that I was afraid to put too much torque on them to remove the gate valves so I used the stacking methodology I described above.
This isn't ideal, but will keep you in business until your next haul out when you can do it right. I'm assuming that there is some shaft left since you said stripped and not sheared off. Buy a ball valve and "stack" it on to your old gate valve using a properly sized piece of bronze pipe to connect the new to the old (both should have standard tapered pipe threads as explained by Garry). Now open the gate valve with a pair of vise grips on the shaft and use the ball valve to turn things on and off. If I recall properly, I think the size is 1/2" standard plumbing parts if you're talking head inlet. Replacing the pipe nipples with proper thru hulls is a major project (check the archives). My previous 27 was and my current 30 were/are fresh water boats and the pipe nipples were sound so I just replaced the gate valves with ball valves. A couple were so tight that I was afraid to put too much torque on them to remove the gate valves so I used the stacking methodology I described above.
S
Sean
Bob, thanks.....I like
your idea, I am planning to pull her at the end of summer and that should work till then. However, the gate valve (wheel) is stripped, i.e. it just turns and turns and nothing hapens. So how do I open the old gate valve once the ball valve is installed? Any thoughts?......One of the guys at the dock told me to stick a cork in my thru hull opening and replace the gate valve.....what do you think??? Kinda risky but it should work.
your idea, I am planning to pull her at the end of summer and that should work till then. However, the gate valve (wheel) is stripped, i.e. it just turns and turns and nothing hapens. So how do I open the old gate valve once the ball valve is installed? Any thoughts?......One of the guys at the dock told me to stick a cork in my thru hull opening and replace the gate valve.....what do you think??? Kinda risky but it should work.
P
Patrick
Kinda Risky?
I've got the same problem, except my valve is stuck open. A friend suggested I plug the thru hull opening with a cork and replace the valve. My concern (and I assume yours) is having something bad happen while still in the water. For example, what if the value is seized on the pipe fitting and the thru hull fitting or seam crack under the stress of trying to get the fitting off? I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has done this 'risky' procedure. Perhaps paying the big money to have the pros do it right the first time on all the thru hull valves and fitting may be worth it. At least, it will keep our boats off the bottom.
I've got the same problem, except my valve is stuck open. A friend suggested I plug the thru hull opening with a cork and replace the valve. My concern (and I assume yours) is having something bad happen while still in the water. For example, what if the value is seized on the pipe fitting and the thru hull fitting or seam crack under the stress of trying to get the fitting off? I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has done this 'risky' procedure. Perhaps paying the big money to have the pros do it right the first time on all the thru hull valves and fitting may be worth it. At least, it will keep our boats off the bottom.
S
Sean
the outcome!
Well I tried to replace the old gate valve this weekend with the boat in the water. I plugged the thu hull with plugs available at West Marine. Soaked the old gate valve nut with liquid wrench and waited. 15 minutes later I cranked on her and found that Catalina had glassed in the NUT!!! I started to chip the glass off the nut and then decided that this wasn't the best solution (scared I might crack the glass or something.) OH well....I guess I will wait till I haul her out! I now have a new toilet with a hose running into a bucket to flush.......
Well I tried to replace the old gate valve this weekend with the boat in the water. I plugged the thu hull with plugs available at West Marine. Soaked the old gate valve nut with liquid wrench and waited. 15 minutes later I cranked on her and found that Catalina had glassed in the NUT!!! I started to chip the glass off the nut and then decided that this wasn't the best solution (scared I might crack the glass or something.) OH well....I guess I will wait till I haul her out! I now have a new toilet with a hose running into a bucket to flush.......
P
Patrick
Success
Sean, I am surprised to hear that you found the gate value glassed (I presume to the thru-hull fitting). My old gate value (busted like yours) had a little 3M 5200 on it that I chipped off. I then corked it on the outside with a 36 cent rubber cork I got at the hardware store. Thinking the value might be seized on the fitting, I was ready to apply heat to free it. Before doing that I took a deep breath and tried to budge the value. IT BUDGED. I then took it off, cleaned the threads with a wire brush, wrapped them with pipe tape and put the new ball value on. SUCCESS! I did half to get it pretty tight but it's done. In hindsight, it wasn't that bad. I would suggest that you have some 5200 (fast drying) on hand just in case something goes terribly wrong. I also think it is a good idea to replace the thru-hull fittings next time you haul out. I plan to bite the bullet and do it. One final thought. You might want to near a haul out place when you change the value. It will give you ease of mind if nothing else. Good luck.
Sean, I am surprised to hear that you found the gate value glassed (I presume to the thru-hull fitting). My old gate value (busted like yours) had a little 3M 5200 on it that I chipped off. I then corked it on the outside with a 36 cent rubber cork I got at the hardware store. Thinking the value might be seized on the fitting, I was ready to apply heat to free it. Before doing that I took a deep breath and tried to budge the value. IT BUDGED. I then took it off, cleaned the threads with a wire brush, wrapped them with pipe tape and put the new ball value on. SUCCESS! I did half to get it pretty tight but it's done. In hindsight, it wasn't that bad. I would suggest that you have some 5200 (fast drying) on hand just in case something goes terribly wrong. I also think it is a good idea to replace the thru-hull fittings next time you haul out. I plan to bite the bullet and do it. One final thought. You might want to near a haul out place when you change the value. It will give you ease of mind if nothing else. Good luck.
S
Sean
Patrick,
Congrats on your accomplishment. I might try chipping off the stuff around the nut. I just figured it was glass. As you know there isn't alot of room to work, and it was 106 degrees the day I tried it, so my patience was just about shot. I will give it another try this weekend and let you know. Sean
Congrats on your accomplishment. I might try chipping off the stuff around the nut. I just figured it was glass. As you know there isn't alot of room to work, and it was 106 degrees the day I tried it, so my patience was just about shot. I will give it another try this weekend and let you know. Sean
P
Patrick Friday
Regarding 5200 as backup
Sean, 3M has informed me that 5200 regular and fast cure will NOT work if the surface in wet. If something goes wrong, you need to have your boat hauled out. I did my job with only the cork as backup but it worked. Good luck.
Sean, 3M has informed me that 5200 regular and fast cure will NOT work if the surface in wet. If something goes wrong, you need to have your boat hauled out. I did my job with only the cork as backup but it worked. Good luck.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.