Thoughts about swing keel boats.

mauruuru · Sep 30, 2013

After two swing keel boats -a Catalina 22 and an O'day 30 I was a committed thin water sailor. When I bought my current boat though I solved the problems inherent in swing keel boats that of maintenance and sailing performance. I bought a Seaward 32RK. This vertically retracting beaver tail bulb-fin keel boat has the center of effort in the same place no at all depths. Still trailerable, still gets into less than 2 feet of water and can cross the gulf stream in a blow if it has to.

Caribbeanknight1 · Oct 1, 2013

I hope you give us a full review of the Seaward 32rk. That's my current dream boat and I want to read as much as I can about it.

David S · Oct 2, 2013

Thoughts About Swing Keels

Jackdaw said:
Because I've never been a fan of using rope in the keel lifting applications. Its use (vs mechanical) is done solely as a cost saving measure, and in my opinion its a poor place to cost-cut. Its wears and rots, and normally works fine until it catastrophically fails. Good mechanical systems, while have a service life of 2-3 times as long, will normally get difficult to use as they wear, letting you know they need attention.

Or maybe I've just seen too many Odays (who made 1000's of boats with rope as the centerboard lift) with centerboards stuck in the down position due to broken lines! ;^)

I acquired my 79 O'day 22 at Port Charlotte FL in 2006 ( free of charge ) after it had been sunk by Charley and salvaged and tied to a dock and left there to provide a home for 2 inches of barnacles. The centerboard was broke off about 6-7 inches from the swivel pin, just enough left for me to make a home board, and the end of the lift line was of cable and was frayed out and no shackle. I bought a new lift, this one had no cable in it, and this week as the boat is off the trailer and up on 2 railroad ties, upon inspection of the lift line it appears and feels strong, shows no wear at the shackle or where it runs through the tube.
As Bosman said, replace it every 5-6 years with a new one. I hate replacing something that seems to have yet a long useful life, like brake pads, course thats a different story. But trying to be reasonable, it would not be a pleasant expierence to have a loose canon hanging straight down to deal with or have it brake off and build another one. So I better hurry a order to DR for a new one and give this one to a sailor more poor than I.

David S

Gubb · Oct 7, 2013

mauruuru said:
After two swing keel boats -a Catalina 22 and an O'day 30 I was a committed thin water sailor. When I bought my current boat though I solved the problems inherent in swing keel boats that of maintenance and sailing performance. I bought a Seaward 32RK. This vertically retracting beaver tail bulb-fin keel boat has the center of effort in the same place no at all depths. Still trailerable, still gets into less than 2 feet of water and can cross the gulf stream in a blow if it has to.

Has anyone ever seen or sailed the C&C Mega 30?
2300lb retractable bulb keel.

Gubb · Oct 7, 2013

30' LOA, 8' beam...extremely stable with keel fully lowered

Gubb · Oct 7, 2013

Ray Bowles said:
Gubb, That is a very beautiful chunk of fiberglass. How does she sail and what years were they made in?
Ray

Thank you, she sails very well, really fast downwind for her weight.
40' mast with 428 sq. ft. of sail.
115 of these we're built from '77 to '82
Initially built in Niagara Falls Canada, then to the US and Sweden.
Her righting capability is near second to none.
In the process of major modifications, including interior, radar arch with integral stern rail seats, swim platform, full dodger & cockpit enclosure to name a few.

Gubb · Oct 8, 2013

It is a deck stepped mast although it is through bolted to a full compression post to the hull.

Douglast · Oct 11, 2013

I find my keel very easy to inspect and work on when its on the trailer...
I use the old cable to fish my new cable and I can remove the pulley to access to tighten the cable clamps, and I can change the bolt propping the keel on the trailer.

I fixed 95 percent of my clunking by cutting the ends of a rubber roller fairlead and gluing them each side of the keel trunk forward section near the bottom to act as a bumper.

I often as well use the keel lock bolt with a slight tension on it by the cable.

And I did increase my pulley diameter abit to facilitate the cable radius to lift easier and remember the keel bolt hole can get sloppy so a larger bolt or a bushed keel can tighten things up abit to help the clunk .

Joe11688 · Oct 12, 2013

Douglast said:
I find my keel very easy to inspect and work on when its on the trailer...
I use the old cable to fish my new cable and I can remove the pulley to access to tighten the cable clamps, and I can change the bolt propping the keel on the trailer.

I fixed 95 percent of my clunking by cutting the ends of a rubber roller fairlead and gluing them each side of the keel trunk forward section near the bottom to act as a bumper.

I often as well use the keel lock bolt with a slight tension on it by the cable.

And I did increase my pulley diameter abit to facilitate the cable radius to lift easier and remember the keel bolt hole can get sloppy so a larger bolt or a bushed keel can tighten things up abit to help the clunk .[/QUOTE /}. I know that there are a lot of mods that can be done on the swing keel itself. I've seen pics of the ones you've on yours Doug and they're pretty ingenious.
I've always favored the ''Venture 22" by MacGregor. With that said though, I still love my O'Day 222. Knowing what I know today about the later model O'Day 23, This is the one boat.to buy today.

SwitchintoglideIII · Jan 16, 2014

The keel, near 2400 lbs...electric screw jack retracting.
Retracted draft, 28" dry....30" loaded
Fully deployed draft, 5'6"

cookwithgas · Jan 17, 2014

I have owned and sailed two swing keep boats - a MacGregor 22 (sold) and currently a C&C 31 Corvette. These boats are worlds apart in many ways. I could not sail a boat with deeper draft than my C&C 31 where I live. I sail over the top of 4' water depth all day around here and keep the keel up most of the time. The boat performs great and I'm very happy with the way the keel retracts and lowers when needed.

The MacGregor 22 was a different story. Although I loved that boat and sailed it often, it was a hand full. I removed the 500 lb keel and sanded and painted it, then reinstalled it with a new pivot bolt and cable. The boat still leaked constantly when under way because it was almost impossible to keep the water out through the cable hole and especially the keel pivot. It wasn't much water but problematic. The C&C is a totally sealed system all the way to the cable winch and I have never seen water come in via the keel system.

When I had the Mac, I didn't live on the water so I had to trailer the boat. This would not have been possible with the big boat I have now, so the Mac was just what the doctor ordered back then. I did enjoy all of the sailing I was able to do in the Mac, but I have to say that the larger, heavier C&C is a pure joy to sail where the Mac was more of a hang on for your life experience when the wind picked up because it was a much lighter boat. Being able to trailer it though made sailing possible for me at the time.

Scott2 · Jan 20, 2014

I've had a Hunter 240 for years and its predecessor was a Hunter 23.5. As a Midwest sailor, the swing keel allows me to sail many lakes that I otherwise would not have been able to on even the most minimal fixed keel. The difference between 18 inches of draft and 24 inches can mean access or no access when the lakes are down.

Besides, there is a certain advantage on unfamiliar lakes when you hear the bump of the mechanical depth finder and know all you have to do is raise the keel and you are on your way again. Ha!

srust58 · Jan 22, 2014

I think I like mine.

Sure the cable hums at certain speeds but it's not objectional, it clunks under certain conditions, maintainence has not been an issue as we sail in fresh water. The trunk intrudes on the cabin space. I like the ease of launch and an the ability to gunkhole in shallow water (2 feet). It has been seaworthy enough to sail Lake Superior at times in some remote areas.

Two feet over sand in Horace Cove Slate Islands Lake Superior. The only place to anchor in this otherwise deep and open to the south cove. This is a Provincial Park and the fishing is good here. Earlier in the day the rangers came by in their powerboat to check my fishing license...they could not get any closer than 100 feet so I just waved a piece of paper at them and they went on their way.

I wasn't fishing...somehow all my gear got left at home this trip...stupid me.

We like doing this when we find a sand beach. Lampton Cove Slate Islands.

We had this once popular cove all to ourselves for three days due to the low water levels in lake Huron. 2 foot entrance channel. McCleary Cove North Channel Lake Huron.

Another shallow draft special South Benjamin island Lake Huron.

I have lots of photos like these.....while not antisocial we like anchoring away from the crowd and by ourselves. In most of my photos we are usually the only boat in the anchorage unless we are traveling with friends. Our boat allows us to do that.

Sumner · Jan 23, 2014

srust58 said:
....while not antisocial we like anchoring away from the crowd and by ourselves. In most of my photos we are usually the only boat in the anchorage unless we are traveling with friends. Our boat allows us to do that.

Beautiful boat and great pictures, thanks. We are of the same mind when anchoring and like the remote places also. Even in anchorages with other boats that swing keel lets you in when there is no more room for deeper draft boats as you can hug the shore where they can't. We usually will put down a Bahamian Moor in those cases to keep us right where we want to be without swinging on anchor.

Here are a couple of on the beach shots though...

With the Mac on Lake Powell....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-trips-1/macgregor-trips-1-index.html

Sum

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KristinKaye · Jan 24, 2014

srust58 said:
Two feet over sand in Horace Cove Slate Islands Lake Superior.

We've been up there with our '81 Hunter 22 a few times too. Just release the rope on the rudder and let it float up, pull the rope to swing the keel in, and we can get right up on the beach in most places. It's great.

Only thing I've done on the H22 is replace the bushing and bolt once, and replace the rope a couple times. The keel only weighs 65 lbs on the H22 and replacing the keel bushing and bolt can be done with the boat on the trailer.

srust58 · Jan 29, 2014

Sumner said:
Beautiful boat and great pictures, thanks. We are of the same mind when anchoring and like the remote places also. Even in anchorages with other boats that swing keel lets you in when there is no more room for deeper draft boats as you can hug the shore where they can't. We usually will put down a Bahamian Moor in those cases to keep us right where we want to be without swinging on anchor.

Here are a couple of on the beach shots though...

With the Mac on Lake Powell....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-trips-1/macgregor-trips-1-index.html

Sum

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That photo looks like they dropped the lake level overnight and left you sitting on the sandbank.

Nice photos...have thought about going there at some time but it sounds like the sailing conditions are marginal after reading through your site.

Sumner · Jan 30, 2014

srust58 said:
That photo looks like they dropped the lake level overnight and left you sitting on the sandbank. Nice photos...have thought about going there at some time but it sounds like the sailing conditions are marginal after reading through your site.

It does look that way but.....

.... we did have some water under us. If I remember right the lake was down about 80 feet.

The sailing conditions aren't great but the experience and beauty of it all is more than worth going.

No place like it on the planet. If you want more sailing the lake is quite wide in a few places, one up-lake from Page, then also at Bull Frog/Halls Crossing and down a ways from Hite at the upper end of the lake. We were in no hurry and didn't want to use the motor so just sailed, but go and sail when you can and use the motor the rest of the time and...

..... have a boating experience you won't ever forget

,

Sum

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srust58 · Feb 12, 2014

KristinKaye said:
We've been up there with our '81 Hunter 22 a few times too. Just release the rope on the rudder and let it float up, pull the rope to swing the keel in, and we can get right up on the beach in most places. It's great.

Only thing I've done on the H22 is replace the bushing and bolt once, and replace the rope a couple times. The keel only weighs 65 lbs on the H22 and replacing the keel bushing and bolt can be done with the boat on the trailer.

Have you been to Horace Cove? Never met anyone else who has been there. I think it gets used by the kayak travels often enough. When we were there the seiche was quite active with the level changing about 8 inches every few hours. It really stirred up the water and in the photo you can see how cloudy it is and the boat swung back and forth through 180 degrees. All day long this same tree branch keep floating by the boat....in and out of the cove.

Thoughts about swing keel boats.

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