Third summer, boat wont sail

[stickinthemud57]

I'd like to know if we are going to hear back from the OP.

 

[dlochner]

I'd like to know if we are going to hear back from the OP.

He only posted his question last night at 7:45 pm. He may still have a day job that doesn't allow him time to visit the forum.

 

[stickinthemud57]

He only posted his question last night at 7:45 pm. He may still have a day job that doesn't allow him time to visit the forum.

Good point. If so, he needs to quit his day job. Priorities, man!

 

[gtg]

No. The c22 hulls don't have coring. Fiberglass doesn't absorb water like wood or foam etc. Are you asking because the boat isn't sitting level on it's water line ?
(Most c22s sit a little low in the stern unless you put more gear/weight in the bow. Keeping the boat flat improves performance)

I thought perhaps the front was over weighted? It does sit well

 

[gtg]

Take a look at your rudder too, if classic tilt up may not be holding all the way down which will give you a weather helm constantly.

I think it was 5% up last time I sailed; I noticed when we headed in- it just wasnt completely 100% down, a little kickedup, I am unable to find the picture. My club champion told me that would be minimal issue but I did wonder!

I also wonder is the rudder supposed lift 90 degrees to get the whole thing out of the water? Mine only lifts part way out of the water.(-pic3)

 

[gtg]

Take a look at your rudder too, if classic tilt up may not be holding all the way down which will give you a weather helm constantly.

I will get a picture

 

[capta]

I think you should have spent some of the money that you spent on sailing lessons on maintenance. That centerboard and hull would prevent your boat from sailing well on any point of sail.
The only way to get really good at sailing is to sail. And sail lots more. And sail lots more, etc. Sailing is a lot more about feel than knowing.
Good luck.

 

[kappykaplan]

Sailing is a lot more about feel

 

[gtg]

An old, stretched out, baggy mainsail can and does cause weather helm. The bagginess allows the draft (deep, curved part of the sail) to migrate aft, moving the center of effort of the sail plan aft, thus pushing the sternward portion of the boat away from the wind, which causes the bow to turn up toward the wind.

Depending on severity, you might attempt the following. Rig a Cunningham if you have a cringle in the mainsail for one. Tightening it will pull the mainsail draft forward. Ease your traveler to full leeward when the boat begins to become overpowered. Tension your backstay adjuster if you have one. This should flatten the mainsail near the top of the mast, reducing the heeling force there. Either recut your mainsail or get a new one if it is old. Anything over 10 yr most, I think, would agree is an old sail. Of course, use the properly-sized headsail for the conditions. If you depend on roller furling of the headsail then it should be “reef-able.” That is, the headsail is cut and made with a foam luff that allows reefing of the headsail.

As for the bottom, board, get them cleaned up. Get to work!!

Okay I wrote that down. I get sail with a national champ next week. This will be 4th summer stumbling around with this boat, my club champ went out last month with me and as we tried to round the mark, he shook his head, "I dont know what but something aint right. Its unbalanced" was all he could say

I took my main sail in to Kerr Sails, he cut the the main luff rope so the sail would lengthen as it should. Said it was okay. The jib I think is cripsy ? I wonder if you can tell from the photos.
I also attached the size of my jib(4th pic), I guess it is the sail that came with it? The other sail is a storm jib. I wonder is my jib supposed to go all the way to the top? Currently I attach the tack of the jib at the bow of the boat and the sail allows for it to go 90/95% on the length forestay length.

 

[gtg]

Nothing is going to help the problem if that bottom condition Isn’t fixed first.

Thank you for your time. I just so dang confused we have a lotof "dirty bottom" catalina 22s at my club

 

[dlochner]

Sailing is a lot more about feel than knowing.

Absolutely. And it takes time at the helm of a boat that sails well to get to the feeling not thinking stage. We don't think when we ride a bicycle, we just ride. Same with sailing, only it takes longer to get to that stage however, you get fewer skinned knees.

 

[dlochner]

Thank you for your time. I just so dang confused we have a lotof "dirty bottom" catalina 22s at my club

The bottom is beyond dirty. The centerboard is in serious trouble. To win races you have to start with a clean bottom and be on time at the start.

 

[gtg]

The term weather helm comes from the position of the tiller, which will be to the windward side. The opposite is lee helm when the tiller must be pushed to the leeward side of the boat.

A little weather helm is generally good. Lee helm is always bad. If the boat has weather helm it will want to turn towards the wind, thus if something happens a tiller breaks (been there done that) or helms person drops the tiller the boat will turn into the wind and stop. In the same situations with lee helm the boat will turn down wind and run off or jibe.

The bottom and keel need serious attention.

Helm issues that you describe can be caused by poor rig tuning, worn out sails, poor sail trim, improper mast position, or the keel being off center.

How old are the sails?
How did you tune the rig?
Are you sure the masthead is centered over the midline?

Good to know of the terms. Thank you.
I did the halyard tape trick, again,last week; compared the left and right lengths, port side was just under 1/2" short.

I did the loos tension gauge some time ago. I used the C22 tuning guide and the 2006 C22 Technical Manual for references.

never got the shrouds super tight; confused about this because my catamaran shrouds where petty loose and the mast flopped as I tacked. I notice my lee ward shrouds are loosen a little similar to my catamaran as I sail, is that a bad idea?

Last week I also got a measurement from bow to mast start and mast boot. I trying to get to Catalina tech support to find a window of workable lengths on file

"Are you sure the masthead is centered over the midline?" Are you talking about mast rake?

 

[kappykaplan]

"Are you sure the masthead is centered over the midline?" Are you talking about mast rake?

No. Centered over the centerline of the boat's hull.

 

[gtg]

I think we are being punked…

Took me a year to clean her up. I have minimal access to hoists and trailers, and all the keel techs have retired in my area. I do watch all these other dirty bottom old boats cruise around in delight- slower but they obey. I have read and read all the minimal adjustments that can be made to get those tweaks for racing. After the last sail with my club champ; he left scratching his head. I'm going on a fourth summer now thinking I might have to dump my boat.

Classes, sailing others boats, now Im a dang certified level 1 boat nstructor(it was free offered by my club); I have read the entirty of the course books, this be no means I am a sail pro. When the books tell you do this and this and it works with other boats I sail but not with my 22. Beyond frustrated with all the upgrades/ maintenance I have done. Boat parts are pricey even used and I have turned the boat into a single hand sailor boat. Thank you for reading my thread. Im looking into keel shaping and pin replacement. its gnarly inside my hull with patch fiberglass work and they did seal up my keel lock.

 

[gtg]

Take a look at your rudder too, if classic tilt up may not be holding all the way down which will give you a weather helm constantly.

5% up make a difference? serious

 

[gtg]

The bottom is beyond dirty. The centerboard is in serious trouble. To win races you have to start with a clean bottom and be on time at the start.

definitely not a racer, I long to sail into my cove for once, keep missing my marks

 

[gtg]

What size jib in what knot wind? (I had a 1981 C22 for many years, it sailed great.)

It was low wind that day 2/3mph low wind to 9/10 mph the highest point. Used my big jib. I thought hell, if I just used the storm jib it might have sailed well for once.

In high winds I get pushed side ways and my tiller is in the breaking position to sail straight. dlochner tells me it is lee helm rather than weather helm.

 

[gtg]

No. Centered over the centerline of the boat's hull.

I guess I will take a right angel or my protractor out again, cause eyes aint cutting it. Measurements taken via halyard markingslast week, they were 1/2"off port side

 

[gtg]

I think you should have spent some of the money that you spent on sailing lessons on maintenance. That centerboard and hull would prevent your boat from sailing well on any point of sail.
The only way to get really good at sailing is to sail. And sail lots more. And sail lots more, etc. Sailing is a lot more about feel than knowing.
Good luck.

Sailing lessons came before the boat, chose to do the instructor sailing cause surely I am missing something here and it was free. I picked the boat up dirty and unused for $200. It is beyond me why she misbehaves so bad. Disappointed. Looking into my keel pin and keel shape options.