We start breaking out the calculators and looking at sailing?? That way madness lies,
Switching my 1976, Hunter 30 diesel to electric
- Thread starter Filmstress
- Start date
@Filmstress
First, I do not see the specific model and year of your boat which is crucial to get a better response. What is the model and year?
To add electric engine either way will be costly. If you ever resell the boat, you will not get back what you put into your sailboat. Due to age, what is the condition of other gear and boat as that would have to be considered?
The early Hunters did not have much room which is why the specific model and year. Hunter started off with a 25 footer sold to a friend of mine delivered by Warren Luhrs himself in the 1970’s
First, I do not see the specific model and year of your boat which is crucial to get a better response. What is the model and year?
To add electric engine either way will be costly. If you ever resell the boat, you will not get back what you put into your sailboat. Due to age, what is the condition of other gear and boat as that would have to be considered?
The early Hunters did not have much room which is why the specific model and year. Hunter started off with a 25 footer sold to a friend of mine delivered by Warren Luhrs himself in the 1970’s
My dock neighbors did this. Very expensive and it took a couple of go arounds to get it operational. Extensive research and vetting is in order here. The guy they hired to wire it up overstated his expertise and it turned into a bit of a nightmare and they ended up firing him and getting another. I think this is not an uncommon scenario given the newness of electric propulsion. A switch out is not cost effective but thats your business. I look forward to hearing more from folks who use it about how they like it.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,949
I do not believe electrical propulsion is new or newness. It has been around since the invention of the electric motor.
The concept is fairly simple. You choose a motor of a size that will rotate the prop at the desired speed and has the proper components in the manufactured design to do this continuously. Commercial electric motors are readily available. You wire in a reostate (throttle) able to provide variable continuous power to the motor. Then you install a storage power source. This is the way ships all over the world power their craft. Using Diesel to run a generator, that provides electricity to drive the electric motors that turn the props that propel the boat.
The challenge for a small boat is the power source to supply the motor ON DEMAND and for the Duration needed to fulfill the boating needs. This is an evolving issue. It is not yet practical. So the costs are greater than the current power sources (diesel being the most cost efficient for an auxiliary power system on a small boat).
I made a world cruise on a "diesel electric submarine tender" back in the '80s. That seems a life time ago.
This sentence is the fundamental controversy. What is the definition of "practical"?
The answer is as varied as there are ways to sail/motor/use a boat.
Not trying to add fuel to a fire here... Just making an observation....
dj
So very true. It is the evolution of electrical components that has brought about this discussion of electric propulsion in boats and even airplanes. The electric propulsion system I first worked on was a light rail vehicle that had all DC components. The traction motors and all accessory motors were DC, heavy and not very efficient. Most controls were mechanical relays, with some solid state components, and a PCU that fit in a 3' by 3' box. The second system, 10 years later, had an inverter, and AC traction motors, lighter and more efficient, but the inverter weighed over a ton and consisted of a 600v DC motor driving an AC generator. Most of the controls were solid state, and the vehicle had an onboard computer. The third system had all AC motors driven by a solid state inverter, so light it was mounted on the roof. It had over two dozen computers on board, and utilized fiber optics.
We are seeing this evolution in components suitable for use in boats, cars, motorcycles and aircraft. This is not your Grandpa's electric propulsion system.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,949
@dLj in context I am stating that the storage potential of current power resources in the confines of a moderate sized sailboat limit the auxiliary power performance for that boat. These limits compromise the cruising design function of a small to moderate sized cruising boat.
If you compromise the cruising activity you can provide greater storage. A limiting factor is cost. And further if you are choosing the electrical power model to "Save the Planet" at the current state of design you are more likely to cause greater planet damage then if you had used a small efficient designed Diesel engine.
That is how I am applying the term "Practical". I acknowledge it is a subjective term. If you are willing to accept the compromises then I affirm it is possible to install electric auxiliary power in a sail boat.
If you are really into "saving the planet" or harnessing solar power then why would you use an auxiliary power supply at all.
Your Sails and boat design provide all the free "solar power" you can enjoy with no auxiliary power cost to wallet or planet.
If you compromise the cruising activity you can provide greater storage. A limiting factor is cost. And further if you are choosing the electrical power model to "Save the Planet" at the current state of design you are more likely to cause greater planet damage then if you had used a small efficient designed Diesel engine.
That is how I am applying the term "Practical". I acknowledge it is a subjective term. If you are willing to accept the compromises then I affirm it is possible to install electric auxiliary power in a sail boat.
If you are really into "saving the planet" or harnessing solar power then why would you use an auxiliary power supply at all.
Your Sails and boat design provide all the free "solar power" you can enjoy with no auxiliary power cost to wallet or planet.
Using new, I agree. But in the case of my friends that took all parts from a wrecked car, they were recycling already existing materials, and hence not adding to the planet damage and in fact were helping to lessen the overall damage by reclaiming recycled materials.
I am hearing the advice of the Pardey's! And while I wholeheartedly agree - I'm running my diesel... hahahahaha
dj
Oh what demons @Filmstress released with her simple and fair question. Perhaps she should change her name to Pandora!
Economists sometimes refer to the consequential damages to the environment that are not included in cost analyses as third party costs. In the context of this discussion, the cost of producing the savings from electrification are third party, thus far no one directly involved is paying for the environmental costs, they are being kicked down the road.
Tesla is making an attempt at cleaner mining. The world will be watching.
www.nytimes.com
Economists sometimes refer to the consequential damages to the environment that are not included in cost analyses as third party costs. In the context of this discussion, the cost of producing the savings from electrification are third party, thus far no one directly involved is paying for the environmental costs, they are being kicked down the road.
Tesla is making an attempt at cleaner mining. The world will be watching.
Can a Tiny Territory in the South Pacific Power Tesla’s Ambitions? (Published 2021)
Nickel is vital to electric car batteries, but extracting it is dirty and destructive. A plant with a turbulent history in New Caledonia is about to become an experiment in doing it better.
Electric offers the possibility of really minimal maintenance. The catch is the range is limited. If this is intended as a daysailer and your needs are to get out of the harbor at the start of the day and back to your slip at night, with maybe a range of 10 miles should the wind unexpectedly die. Electric seems ideal, maybe the most practical solution.
My boat is a 1976, Hunter 30 foot. Just losing a question to see what other sailors think and if it will be an option for me going forward.
Yes I follow them and have viewed their answers on why they went electrical. I have found that some folks have bought the motor and DIY themselves which is a steep fix for me. I’m still researching and listening to more experienced sailors on their thoughts.
Yes I do watch them regularly and noticed they don’t hold back any punches when it comes to their experiences.