Surge brakes and trailer extensions

Kermit · Mar 9, 2015

My actuator never gets submerged. My extension probably works but when the previous owner had the brake system replaced, the company didn't allow for the brake line to extend with the tongue. The line is solid. So I can't extend the tongue without ripping the brake hose apart. That's on my list of things to do.

watercolors II · Mar 9, 2015

Trailer must be able to submerge, so having a trailer that doesn’t, is not the proper setup.

There should be a small pin hole in the cap of the reservoir to replace depleted fluid with air. Water can infiltrate through this hole, so one should drain and replace with new fluid every couple years.

A short section of rubber brake hose needs to be at the unit with a quick disconnect to allow for the trailer extension to be used. (many years ago a groundhog eat mine.)

centerline · Mar 9, 2015

jwilcoxon78 said:
Do you ever submerge the actuator during launch and recovery?

those who do use a trailer extension, do you leave the tongue jack down to launch and recover?

I'm hoping I just need to bleed the brakes again and check for leaks

Submerge ONLY if you have to, then lmmediatly spray it with wd40 when you pull it out to chase the water off of it...

Do not attempt to leave the tongue jack down while moving the trailer with a vehicle attached, as it WILL bend or rip the jack off the trailer tongue...

Probably some lubrication of the mechanisim and a good blleding of the lines will make it work proper again... any air at all in the line will make it not work strong enough to do you any good..

Kermit · Mar 9, 2015

We moved our boat to Lake Murray Sailing Club in Chapin, SC. The ramp is absolutely perfectly ideal for us. Our former ramp was fine during a flood but not good at all when the level was normal or lower. Dave did show me how to make do at our former club but it was always a struggle at best. LMSC has a double ramp that extends 110' at normal lake level. We're pretty dang happy with it.

Crazy Dave Condon · Mar 10, 2015

Masufactureres will always tell you not to submerge the actuator in the water but there will be times you have to. Here is my thought on that. If you are going into salt water or brackish water, wash off the trailer after each submersion to help prevent rusting. Fresh water, not an issue with me.

Although you saw what I probably think was a loose connection that only needed tightening, when you add a new actuator or let the resivouir go completely dry, then you
probably have air in the lines and that being the case will cause loss of brakes as the brake lines have to be devoid of any air in them which is why you have to bleed the brakes. I suspect this may be the case in this situation and if you do not know how to bleed them, get someone who can do it for you or show you. It is not that hard but a couple of tools and brake fluid.

As for the extension, when the ramp has a slight decline to the water, then it means the trailer has to go out further and then the extension comes into play. It depends on the ramp. In Kermits case the brake line is not long enough to allow for that and has to be addressed.

There is one other thing and again I do not know all the facts. First there could be crap in the brake lines which would have to be flushed out. Sometimes I used an air hose to force that out. Secondly, disc brakes were put on. Believe it or not, the actuator is designed either for disc or surge which could be a difference. A lot depends on the style of plunger in the actuator itself I believe but here again I do not know all the information but had to add this as possible suspects.

watercolors II · Mar 10, 2015

See attached photos of bolt on extension that will carry the tongue weight of an 8000 lb boat, see front trailer tire not touching ramp with boat on trailer.

Crazy Dave Condon · Mar 10, 2015

I would suggest changing out the mount for the spare tire so it is higher. I can see issues with it that low sir.

watercolors II · Mar 11, 2015

Mfg built trailer’s spare tire as a swing down unit when built in extension was pulled out. The slide in extension was a pain to extract and load by it’s self but, created real problems when the trailer made a transition from level parking lot to down sloping launch ramp, lifting the tow vehicle wheels off the ground.

dewhunter · Mar 11, 2015

Re: surge brakes & extendsions

I did the same conversion and found like Dave said 4 different numbers for surge master cylinders. It all depended on the type of brake and amount. I had an industrial hose maker build me a 10' SS plastic coated brake flex hose to allow me to extend the hitch for launching. Cost $100.00, 1/3 the price of going to a performance parts place. (the only other source). When you extend the hitch, only do so when you have to. Being lazy, I extended when I hooked up to the trailer and the headed for the launch ramp and after sailing parked the boat and trailer. Only to find that all the maneuvering twisted and bound up the extension. A lot of lifting, twisting and wholesale ramming got everything back in line. Now I only pull the extension out when I have a strait run at the ramp. A note on brake fluid, It is not compatible with anything other than itself. Any petroleum product will swell the rubber components, causing seizure and leaks.

$tingy Sailor · Mar 11, 2015

For any who are interested, I have articles on each of those projects (and many others) on my blog:

Surge brake system with quick disconnect for tongue extension. No expensive, unwieldy hoses

Build a custom telescoping trailer tongue extension to keep your actuator dry and float your sailboat at any ramp

My favorite trailer mod of them all, install a backup camera and snag the ball on the first try

Make launching easy so you have more fun!

Crazy Dave Condon · Mar 12, 2015

When extending a trailer extension with boat on board or not still hitched, I use to tell my customers to block the tires on the trailer and extend the tongue jack down. Then take your hand and feel the spacing where the extension goes into the socket or the trailer. When you have equal spacing on top and bottom, then extend or retract. Otherwise it is difficult as the pressure of the tongue extension bar is resting up against the inside of the receiver socket on the trailer which is not good.

Kermit · Mar 12, 2015

$S,
Can you please give specifics for the flexible extension for the brake line? I've asked several trailer companies about adding an extension for me. They all say they can do it but then say they don't know what to order. I know I'm asking alot, but actual part names and fitting sizes and where you bought them would be helpful. Yes, I did read your blog but I haven't found those specifics.
Thanks!

Crazy Dave Condon · Mar 12, 2015

Big Frog;

Kermit says to wait till Uncle crazy is a coming o bottom paint with you. Then lets look. there are two possibilities rascal.

$tingy Sailor · Mar 12, 2015

Kermy,

If Uncle Crazy is coming to lend a hand, confirm everything with him and your particular trailer and brake system. You might need different parts or lengths than I did.

But so you know it's all off the shelf parts, here's what I purchased from etrailer.com from the drum brake assemblies forward to the actuator.

DM5426 Demco Hydraulic Brake Line Kit for Single Axle Trailers - Drum Brakes
T0777300 Titan Hydraulic Brake Line with Fittings - 13" Long (whip to the quick disconnect)
T0776300 Titan Bracket for Flexible Brake Line Tubing (bracket to frame between steel line and whip)
T0776400 Clip for Titan Flexible Brake Line Tubing (clips the lines to the bracket)

Plus the QD fitting at eBay that I sent you before and bushings to match the whip to the QD and the QD to the actuator. I got those at a local hardware store.

Good luck. It's not rocket science

Capt jgw · Mar 13, 2015

Back in my trailer sailing days. I converted both my trailers to electric brakes, as recommended by a truck driver friend, to control trailer sway. I had a near disastrous episode when a void in the stern of the boat which had filed with water caused too light a tongue weight. The resulting trailer sway nearly put me into the trees. With electric brakes you can apply the trailer brakes independently of the tow vehicle, which will stop the swaying. Semi trucks have the same kind of brake controls.
If the brake wiring is in good shape, with adhesive heat shrink connections all around, water won't hurt the system, any repairs are much easier. The system is much simpler, just a magnet in each drum that applies the brakes when energized. No problems with the tongue extension either, because you are going to unplug the wires anyway. You do need a brake controller installed in the vehicle, and I think surge brakes only became popular because they don't require anything in the tow vehicle. The electric brakes seemed to slow out stop the rig as well or better than the surge brakes did.

Kermit · Mar 13, 2015

Thanks, $S. I feel egg dripping from my face, though. I don't recall another link you have sent. I'm getting old I suppose.

Thanks!

Surge brakes and trailer extensions

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