Mitiempo's tool looks like a better choice that your examples. Maine Sail's crimp pictures would need a specific tool. I've used AMP tools and some others for that type of crimp, but probably cost more than you'd be willing to spend to do a few crimps on one boat...although maybe I'm wrong?
Soldering wiring connections
- Thread starter IH82BL8
- Start date
50-50 Solder
In the National Electrical Code (not applicable to marine electrical) a grounding conductor connection can not be dependent on solder to hold the connection. In other words, it can be soldered but must also have a mechanical connection.
So if the wiring is for a stereo, all is fair. If it is for bilge pump, marine radio, lights or other important devices, I like a crimped then soldered connection to prevent corrosion and make a superior electrical connection. A crimped and soldered connection will bond to the wire and the connector.
The solder is brittle when a 'cold solder" is made. A proper solder joint will not be brittle.
In the National Electrical Code (not applicable to marine electrical) a grounding conductor connection can not be dependent on solder to hold the connection. In other words, it can be soldered but must also have a mechanical connection.
So if the wiring is for a stereo, all is fair. If it is for bilge pump, marine radio, lights or other important devices, I like a crimped then soldered connection to prevent corrosion and make a superior electrical connection. A crimped and soldered connection will bond to the wire and the connector.
Why I said "Some of the best of that style tool".
The Sailors Solution tool is a decent "kock-off" but I would not consider it a top tier tool. It is better than most of the crap one finds out there though.
All those single ratchet tools were copied/knocked off from the AMP version. There are better tools than the AMP for heat shrink terminals but I doubt anyone here would want to spend that kind of money.... If you go for the Sailors Solution tool, for heat shrink terminals, you are way ahead of the curve of most DIY boaters...
Soldering Vs. Crimp Connections
Solder connections are obviously used and are adequate for very small wire sizes with very low current flow, as in printed circuit boards ,etc. But the use of solder for making wire connections in wire/cable ranges of 18AWG and larger sort of "went out with button shoes" for industrial and marine applications. The reasons are many .. but reliability and maintenance is really the main concern and crimp connectors or mechanical lugs have proven to be the better method ... granted that anyone using crimping tools or mechanical lugs needs to know how to crimp and how to properly make lug connections. Last thought ...there are no wire junctions that are totally reliable. Murphy's Law prevails.
I'll stick with what I have. Decent or not, it doesn't sound like the sort of thing you leave lying around.
WOW!! That was truly an awe inspiring crimp, that pic of the cut-away. A dude must have to be a 'junky' like me to sit and stare at a crimp it's so beautiful. Makes me wanna pitch my T&B's out in the river.
I think you would have loved one of my old 'jobs' at LM1 Maine. I'm an info junky as well, but maaaaaaaan, did I have to sit through some mumbo-jumbo about Titan missiles, and attack helicopters and forty dozen other things like that. And it was cool. For the first 17 million hours...
I need to add that I don't know anything about this stuff at all, it was just something we had to do. Defense contractors seem to want you to know something about weird things, sort of, but not ask any questions either.
(You oughta see a quarterly financial report from these guys. Unbelievable)..
(And after seeing those crimps, I would feel like a stooge bragging on one of mine. This information needs to be suppressed. What is the exact geographical coordinates up there in Casco Bay)?
I think you would have loved one of my old 'jobs' at LM1 Maine. I'm an info junky as well, but maaaaaaaan, did I have to sit through some mumbo-jumbo about Titan missiles, and attack helicopters and forty dozen other things like that. And it was cool. For the first 17 million hours...
I need to add that I don't know anything about this stuff at all, it was just something we had to do. Defense contractors seem to want you to know something about weird things, sort of, but not ask any questions either.
(You oughta see a quarterly financial report from these guys. Unbelievable)..
(And after seeing those crimps, I would feel like a stooge bragging on one of mine. This information needs to be suppressed. What is the exact geographical coordinates up there in Casco Bay)?
You could find several sets of non-ratchet crimpers in my trash, over the years. Some I've confiscated from employees.
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WT112M Thomas & Betts is what I keep, just for the info. A few of 'em. And no, compared to others, these are not much, but after looking at those Marinco's, blecch. I wouldn't have those in my emergency box. Not the least of which I will not own a crimper that has the die on the inside of the handle, what a pain, and SUPER aggravating to crimp with, I also do not want a tool that crimps, AND strips in the same tool. They always seem to be a trade-off.
But most of those sheet-metal stamped crimpers strike me as a great way to start screwing up two dollar connectors. But as a rule, whenever I see anyone with these things, they generally have a double handful of equally cheap connectors to go along with them. Of course they will get you home, and maybe hold up for a short while. Even fix a trailer light, but still it would have to be a last resort. Reminds me of those K-Mart jumper-cables that are made with 14 gauge wire, and insulation as big as your finger to make 'em look like something. ALL that stuff to me is an infuriating waste of time and money, and ill working electronics. If they work at all.
And one more thing. This is not a jab at ANYONE on here, that is not my point. But the loose nut HOLDING the crimpers has an awful lot to do with it. I can understand Drew confiscating those junkers. In the hands of dolts, profound mistakes can happen. WILL happen I should say. Most of the time, I just see the insulator more or less just cut or split off of the terminal altogether, which negates the insulator at all. I am not kidding, it almost pisses me off to even LOOK at some of those nightmares people keep in their boxes. My first thought is, "You don't crimp with THAT, do you?" A quick look will tell. And it really doesn't take an electrical engineer to see the crimp and know that it will not work for long. I would have better luck with a dull chisel and a small ball-peen..
It's just another area where being cheap just ends up costing later, plus the added benefit of aggravation. No, I can not say my old T&B's are a huge improvement, but they ain't THAT bad. But again, it's the difference between a fine wood chisel in the hands of a craftsman, and the same tool held by a trainee. The same tool will either shape wood, or gouge wood. Depending upon the nut..
Oh well, whatever...somebodies gotta fix it right eventually. It is kind if nice to fix it one time right though..
But most of those sheet-metal stamped crimpers strike me as a great way to start screwing up two dollar connectors. But as a rule, whenever I see anyone with these things, they generally have a double handful of equally cheap connectors to go along with them. Of course they will get you home, and maybe hold up for a short while. Even fix a trailer light, but still it would have to be a last resort. Reminds me of those K-Mart jumper-cables that are made with 14 gauge wire, and insulation as big as your finger to make 'em look like something. ALL that stuff to me is an infuriating waste of time and money, and ill working electronics. If they work at all.
And one more thing. This is not a jab at ANYONE on here, that is not my point. But the loose nut HOLDING the crimpers has an awful lot to do with it. I can understand Drew confiscating those junkers. In the hands of dolts, profound mistakes can happen. WILL happen I should say. Most of the time, I just see the insulator more or less just cut or split off of the terminal altogether, which negates the insulator at all. I am not kidding, it almost pisses me off to even LOOK at some of those nightmares people keep in their boxes. My first thought is, "You don't crimp with THAT, do you?" A quick look will tell. And it really doesn't take an electrical engineer to see the crimp and know that it will not work for long. I would have better luck with a dull chisel and a small ball-peen..
It's just another area where being cheap just ends up costing later, plus the added benefit of aggravation. No, I can not say my old T&B's are a huge improvement, but they ain't THAT bad. But again, it's the difference between a fine wood chisel in the hands of a craftsman, and the same tool held by a trainee. The same tool will either shape wood, or gouge wood. Depending upon the nut..
Oh well, whatever...somebodies gotta fix it right eventually. It is kind if nice to fix it one time right though..
Attachments
Chris,
There is a large variation in the quality of crimp tools but you can easily get a decent tool for under $100.00....
This might be of interest:
Crimper Shoot Out
There is a large variation in the quality of crimp tools but you can easily get a decent tool for under $100.00....
This might be of interest:
Crimper Shoot Out
One issue the AYBC has with soldered connections is "flexibility". A soldered connection is not flexible. Of course a crimped connection is not either. Most do it your selfers use cheep crimping tools. I believe it is better to solder two wires together. Soldering two wires together is not a difficult skill to master.
A good crimp connection on marine grade wire is very, very, very, very, very difficult to break from flexing. I can't stand there long enough to cycle it back and forth until it does. I have cycled numerous well made crimps 180 degrees back and forth over 200 times and never once seen even a single strand of wire break.... A good crimp connection on marine grade UL1426 wire has "strain relief" built in and they are specifically designed to prevent wire fracturing....
For belt and suspenders Google "solder crimp connector".
Sites such as
http://www.cableorganizer.com/multilink-butt-splices/#features
offer crimp connectors that also contain solder. Crimp, then heat. The connector also has adhesive shrink plastic. I don't use them.
The quickest and cheapest method is to 1) slip a section of adhesive shrink tubing long enough to cover the connector and then some over one wire, 2)fill a nylon crimp connector with dielectric grease, 3) crimp with a ratcheting tool, and 4) pull the shrink tube over the connector and heat.
Dielectric (bulb) grease is a mainstay. The switches on my cabin lights would reliably fail within a year or two until I began coating the switch with dielectric grease. A near lifetime supply can be had at any automotive store for a few dollars.
Sites such as
http://www.cableorganizer.com/multilink-butt-splices/#features
offer crimp connectors that also contain solder. Crimp, then heat. The connector also has adhesive shrink plastic. I don't use them.
The quickest and cheapest method is to 1) slip a section of adhesive shrink tubing long enough to cover the connector and then some over one wire, 2)fill a nylon crimp connector with dielectric grease, 3) crimp with a ratcheting tool, and 4) pull the shrink tube over the connector and heat.
Dielectric (bulb) grease is a mainstay. The switches on my cabin lights would reliably fail within a year or two until I began coating the switch with dielectric grease. A near lifetime supply can be had at any automotive store for a few dollars.
Ordered from Mouser. I will be doing a lot of rewire work on my Pilot Cutter. The savings in time from having to redo connections that fail the pull test make this a good investment in my opinion.
Thanks Again.
That tool is for heat shrink crimp terminals.. Best when used with AMP but they work well with FTZ Terminals too, which are sold here at SBO...
FTZ Terminals
add me to the solder bandwagon. As most have said, there is a right and wrong way to do it. I think the MAIN thing to do is to make the spliced wires themselves (temperature) melt the solder and NOT the gun. I also shrink tube the splice afterwards.
dave
dave
From what I've read, you gentlemen have covered the topic! Of course, I can't resist throwing in a couple coppers into the pot...
I learned my splicing from a belt & suspenders kind of guy- Dad is also a EE who worked on the first trans-Atlantic cable. (talk about one chance to get that right!) Anyhow, I spent a few years in the food packaging industry where the machines did 2.5M cycles a year in an acid wash-down environment. The number one line maintenance call for an electrical issue was the crimped connectors to the heating elements pulling out of the crimp. To save myself the interruptions, (always during lunch, it seemed) I made up replacement wire leads with the mechanical crimp and a proper solder job. Those leads cut the failure rate by 80%- most lasting until the bi-annual rebuild.
When I want to get really twisted up about a joint, I will do the W/U splice, solder it, paint it with liquid electrical tape and let the heat shrink squeeze the excess out. That's what the boat trailer got on last years rebuild...
I learned my splicing from a belt & suspenders kind of guy- Dad is also a EE who worked on the first trans-Atlantic cable. (talk about one chance to get that right!) Anyhow, I spent a few years in the food packaging industry where the machines did 2.5M cycles a year in an acid wash-down environment. The number one line maintenance call for an electrical issue was the crimped connectors to the heating elements pulling out of the crimp. To save myself the interruptions, (always during lunch, it seemed) I made up replacement wire leads with the mechanical crimp and a proper solder job. Those leads cut the failure rate by 80%- most lasting until the bi-annual rebuild.
When I want to get really twisted up about a joint, I will do the W/U splice, solder it, paint it with liquid electrical tape and let the heat shrink squeeze the excess out. That's what the boat trailer got on last years rebuild...
It is all about not melting the insulation and getting a "good solder wick" to the wires. Flux and having some liquid solder on the iron are key to getting fast solders that don't melt insulation and still mechanically wick to the wire.
Bill, I was just thinking that same thing. Fast is one of the tricks. I like a 45 watt iron, get a nice 'bubble' of solder on it, and IF the wire is properly tinned, and I mean if I had tinned it WITH the proper flux, the iron should lay on the joint no longer than two seconds. That's it. Three seconds you've lost it on 14 gauge. It's another reason I hold the wire right AT the joint with my fingers, it's my temp gauge. I won't say I've not burnt my fingers 100 times, but you'll know if it got hot....or not..
It's actually more of a flash than anything. Nuther problem, if you're using a dink iron, resulting in holding the tip on it too long, hot brittle wires WILL be your end game. Try changing out a surface mount component with a junk cold iron, and that new ten thousand dollar Watkins Johnson radio will then be a bookend..
(counter surveillance ain't a kids game, nor the time to learn)..
It's actually more of a flash than anything. Nuther problem, if you're using a dink iron, resulting in holding the tip on it too long, hot brittle wires WILL be your end game. Try changing out a surface mount component with a junk cold iron, and that new ten thousand dollar Watkins Johnson radio will then be a bookend..
(counter surveillance ain't a kids game, nor the time to learn)..