Soldering wiring connections

Feb 6, 2013
437
Hunter 31 Deale, MD
Is soldering wiring connections recommended or not recommended? Does it require "marine" solder?:D

Thanks.
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
Solder is brittle and will tend to break loose from the vibrations of a boat. It's best to use a properly crimped connector. Chuck
 

MrUnix

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Mar 24, 2010
626
Hunter 23 Gainesville, FL
Is soldering wiring connections recommended or not recommended? Does it require "marine" solder?:D

Thanks.
I believe that the ABYC standard prohibits soldered connections and requires the use of stranded wire and crimp connectors. I'm sure Maine Sail or another expert will chime in with more specific info.

Cheers,
Brad
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,077
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
For what it's worth, I've always preferred soldered connections for the following reasons:
1 I don't know how one can discern if a crimp connection is solid and not subject to resistance increase over time due to moisture intrusion and vibration (without taking it apart).
2 I know how to solder and am confident of the integrity of the connection.
3 I can eliminate the potential for breaking a soldered connection by ensuring that a) there is a mechanical connection first (sometimes by crimping), and b) by ensuring the connection is secured thereby minimizing if not eliminating the potential for vibration.

Crimping large lug connectors such as those ubiquitous to battery cables is usually the most acceptable method because of the difficulty in properly soldering large cables.
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,808
Ericson 29 Southport..
I'm in Dons camp with this one, (sorry Don). Yes, you most emphatically will get dissention over this, I've heard it here before. Funny I was soldering connections today and thought about this, even down to trying to photo it and describe the correct way of doing it. My best guess of why some boat governing organization doesn't like this is because it is not an easy skill to pick up, there's quite a few tricks to doing it right. And a bunch of ways to mess it up. This was a skill I had to have in the 'dark days', and a failed connection would have been exponentially worse than a failure on a boat stereo. IE: In an aircraft flying 1000 feet off of the canopy in the Honduran jungles is also not a good time to be worrying if a wire is going to work. And it's also fair to say an old AN-2 is not exactly a static instrument either.

A PROPERLY soldered connection will not fail.

But I'm afraid I've seen way too many incorrect joints to recommend it though. Most people would probably be better off crimping.

(I've TRULY got to post a pic sometime of this rats nest I dug out today. Twisted connections, wrapped in strips of duct tape, good LORD!!)
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
WUPS western union pigtail splice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Union_splice
It has been proven to work in all wire to wire splice situations. Mechanically sound to begin with and the solder only enhances the electrical conductivity. They are exceptionally difficult to do on lugs as you might imagine.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
When did 50-50 lead/tin solder become brittle?
 

203

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Nov 5, 2013
73
Hunter 22 1983 Lake Norman
When did 50-50 lead/tin solder become brittle?
I am a huge proponent of soldered joints. I think the 'brittle' argument comes from the fact that a soldered joint on multiconductor wire will wick some solder up the conductor a mm or so, and then the wicking stops. Net result is a very short distance on the wire body to absorb any vibration. The connection fails due to localized stress.

Crimped joint fail in vibration the same way, but to a lesser extent because the stress is spread over an ever so slightly larger area.

The key to a good connection was mentioned earlier, it must be done *correctly*. This is true for both methods, and includes reduction of stress due to vibration with proper mechanical support of the conductors.

Then throw in some common senses concerning protection from the elements and you're good for a while. Telephone guys use a slimy silicone grease around the connections ( or at least they did years ago ) and it kept out moisture and contaminants quite well.
 
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Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
WUPS western union pigtail splice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Union_splice
It has been proven to work in all wire to wire splice situations. Mechanically sound to begin with and the solder only enhances the electrical conductivity. They are exceptionally difficult to do on lugs as you might imagine.
The method I've always use for wire to wire. Didn't know it had a name.

For terminals I've always crimped them. 150,000 no problem electrical miles on my street rod that was completely wired that way and it has seen...



...salt water.

My advice though would do what you feel comfortable with and try and do a good job and if there ever is a problem fix it as soon as possible. I'll get flack for this, but hey this is a sailboat and we aren't flying at 20,000 feet or something and we do have an anchor if something goes that wrong. Just keep your systems working and have backups if possible for things that are critical,

Sum

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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
I am a huge proponent of soldered joints.

The key to a good connection was mentioned earlier, it must be done *correctly*. This is true for both methods,


Then throw in some common senses concerning protection from the elements and you're good for a while.

Telephone guys use a slimy silicone grease around the connections ( or at least they did years ago ) and it kept out moisture and contaminants quite well.

I agree with the solder over a crimped connection, although I use both, depending on the application/project....

whenever I use a crimped terminal, I ALWAYS dip the ends of the wire in heavy silicone grease or dielectric grease before inserting it into the lug/terminal. when I crimp it, it pushes the excess out and leaves no room for moisture to enter....

ADHESIVE heat shrink tubing is always used no matter if its crimped or soldered.... regular non-adhesive heat shrink tubing is a neater job than electrical tape, and like tape it offers NO PROTECTION from moisture. so when moisture gets in to it, it WONT dry out until you open it up to fix the corroded and failed connection

as for a PROPERLY soldered connection.... for those that dont know, if you dont know what a good connection looks like, or cannot achieve one, then stay away from using a soldered connection until you get some experience making them.... a bad connection due to dirty or wet wire, the wrong solder or a cold joint is WORSE than baring the wires, twisting them together and taping them....

soldering is not a hard task, but if you havent done it, practice on the workbench before crawling down in a tight compartment and attempting one.... and if you are learning to solder the wires for the electronics and think it should be a snap because you arent down in some tight compartment, be aware of the hot molten solder that WILL drip on the upholstery and make burn marks..... :D
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
Us telephone guys still solder, but we've graduated to glue impregnated 3x heat shrink in colours. I'd really be interested in seeing a picture of a failed, soldered, WU, heat shrinked connection. I would likely wager that it's unlikely, and an order of magnitude less likely that a picture exists of such a connection failing due to mechanical inputs.

Of course us telephone guys are readily having our technology replaced by RJ connectors and ip addresses so what the heck. Crimp on if that twists yer sheets :)
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I believe that the ABYC standard prohibits soldered connections...Brad
While "I believe" is hardly a statement of fact, "I think" the ABYC you mention MIGHT be out of context in that you will not use SOLELY a soldered connection. Crimp in addtion, but not just wrap with tape. I guess:D
 
Sep 28, 2008
922
Canadian Sailcraft CS27 Victoria B.C.
That is correct. ABYC states that solder may not be the only means of connection. In addition to the hard spot created from solder wicking up the wire a short can melt the solder, leaving a hot wire dangling where it can cause other problems. The heat shrink over a crimped connection eliminates the hard spot a crimp may leave at its inner end. The best connectors are heat shrink ones which provide an excellent seal, especially with ring connectors.

A western Union splice is designed for solid core wire. It doesn't work nor is it supposed to be used on stranded wire. Only stranded wire - ideally tinned - can be used on a boat.

A very large percentage of people who think they are good at soldering aren't.

A proper crimp - with the correct crimper - is easy to learn. If done properly and covered with adhesive heat shrink it will outlast most boat owners.

Dielectric compounds do not conduct electricity - just the opposite. They have no place inside a crimped connection. After a proper crimp they can be used but adhesive heat shrink is a better choice and will keep out moisture indefinitely.
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
a short can melt the solder, leaving a hot wire dangling where it can cause other problems.

The heat shrink over a crimped connection eliminates the hard spot a crimp may leave at its inner end.

The best connectors are heat shrink ones which provide an excellent seal, especially with ring connectors.

A western Union splice is designed for solid core wire. It doesn't work nor is it supposed to be used on stranded wire. Only stranded wire - ideally tinned - can be used on a boat.

A very large percentage of people who think they are good at soldering aren't.

A proper crimp - with the correct crimper - is easy to learn. If done properly and covered with adhesive heat shrink it will outlast most boat owners.

Dielectric compounds do not conduct electricity - just the opposite. They have no place inside a crimped connection. After a proper crimp they can be used but adhesive heat shrink is a better choice and will keep out moisture indefinitely.
a short can melt the solder, leaving a hot wire dangling where it can cause other problems. this is the main problem with a soldered connection that does not use some form of mechanical connection like the western union splice, before applying solder to it.

The heat shrink over a crimped connection eliminates the hard spot a crimp may leave at its inner end. the hard spot is still there, but better supported, but tape will do the same. adhesive heat shrink is the best support.

The best connectors are heat shrink ones which provide an excellent seal, especially with ring connectors. ring connectors or otherwise, style makes no difference. they are the best but also the most expensive. adhesive heat shrink tube is very affordable in comparison.

A western Union splice is designed for solid core wire. It doesn't work nor is it supposed to be used on stranded wire. Only stranded wire - ideally tinned - can be used on a boat. agreed that using solid wire in the DC system of a boat is not an acceptable practice, but the western union splice DOES work on STRANDED wire, and something similar to it should ALWAYS be used when making a permanent soldered connection.

A very large percentage of people who think they are good at soldering aren't. and
A proper crimp - with the correct crimper - is easy to learn. If done properly and covered with adhesive heat shrink it will outlast most boat owners. EXACTLY!

Dielectric compounds do not conduct electricity - just the opposite. They have no place inside a crimped connection. After a proper crimp they can be used but adhesive heat shrink is a better choice and will keep out moisture indefinitely you are correct that a dielectric grease/compound does not conduct electricity, and its not suppose to... all it is suppose to do is keep the air and moisture out of a connection, and it IS designed to be used INSIDE of connections as well as on the surface of them... but its the mechanical crimp, and not the compound, that makes the connection, again, the grease just displaces the air and water, insuring a trouble free connection.
the adhesive heat shrink tube is good and useful with or without a displacing compound in the connection, but using some form of air and moisture displacement will make any form of electrical connection better....

what standard are we striving for in a connection?


In my business, I work on a lot of extremely wet and vibrating equipment (mining equipment, trucks and large battery operated machinery) that takes more abuse in a couple of hours than what the wiring in a boat takes in a lifetime. I have found what works without ANY recalls whatsoever because i dont like to do warrenty work.
its not really rocket science, but what may be a normal routine way of doing something for one person, may be overkill for the next guy....
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,808
Ericson 29 Southport..
We used to use some 'old timer' bell-techs, you've seen 'em, pipe smokers, the grandaddy glasses, (and some black-hearted old geezers too). In the business, it's way simpler to use these guys than train some adrenaline punk with a want for adventure. I got a helluva education from these fellers. The telco's fight moisture everyday, it is the number one enemy of comms. Fickle little pairs, that used to be insulated with paper and encased in lead. The overhead cables today rely on positive air pressure inside the cable to keep water out. You can imagine what a nightmare 'pulp' cables would present wet, and a milkjug splice was the bane of their existence. We called that dielectric grease "phone-goo", and was nasty as hell. Must be very special stuff, I've never run across it outside of the telco world, and was much more aggravating than an over the counter dielectric grease. But I gotta admit, I thought they all crimped, upwards of 25 pairs at a time. It's fair to say though that we weren't always paying close attention to the technique though, sometimes there was much more important stuff to watch. Which was our job, not critique or 'learn the procedure'. I did anyway.

I truly missed that call though, I was one of the ones that thought landline cables were doomed forever, and saw no future in that particular line of business, and it would all be wireless in short order.

But I still crimp, OR solder depending. I don't see how you could solder a properly crimped connection though, as the whole idea is a 'cold weld', which would not leave any room for displacement.

Ive got a small thinker for you. How hard do you think it is to buy a Chevy van and paint ma-bell on the side of it. Think about that one for a minute..
 
Jul 19, 2013
186
Hunter 33 New Orleans
I solder enough to know that a crimped and soldered connection is a very good connection. Put a little rosin core flux on the bare wire crimp then solder. The solder will flow to the heat and the flux will let the liquid solder flow around every strand. You can recognize a cold solder connection by the dull appearance as opposed to the shine appearance of properly solder joint. I do not solder every joint only ones I feel which benefit form the effort.

The correct electrical solder will not corrode a connection I have a collection of tube ham gear some of with is pre WWII and the connections are in excellent shape even the home brew radios and Kit builds.

Start dumping fresh and saltwater on a connection and all bets are off.
 
Sep 28, 2008
922
Canadian Sailcraft CS27 Victoria B.C.
I solder enough to know that a crimped and soldered connection is a very good connection. Put a little rosin core flux on the bare wire crimp then solder. The solder will flow to the heat and the flux will let the liquid solder flow around every strand. You can recognize a cold solder connection by the dull appearance as opposed to the shine appearance of properly solder joint. I do not solder every joint only ones I feel which benefit form the effort.
If the proper crimper is used on the proper connector solder will not end up inside the crimp. Now with a ineffective cheap crimper or a pair of pliers there will be room for solder in the connection.
 
Jul 19, 2013
186
Hunter 33 New Orleans
If the proper crimper is used on the proper connector solder will not end up inside the crimp. Now with a ineffective cheap crimper or a pair of pliers there will be room for solder in the connection.
That is good to know.
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
We used to use some 'old timer' bell-techs, you've seen 'em, pipe smokers, the grandaddy glasses, (and some black-hearted old geezers too). In the business, it's way simpler to use these guys than train some adrenaline punk with a want for adventure. I got a helluva education from these fellers. The telco's fight moisture everyday, it is the number one enemy of comms. Fickle little pairs, that used to be insulated with paper and encased in lead. The overhead cables today rely on positive air pressure inside the cable to keep water out. You can imagine what a nightmare 'pulp' cables would present wet, and a milkjug splice was the bane of their existence. We called that dielectric grease "phone-goo", and was nasty as hell. Must be very special stuff, I've never run across it outside of the telco world, and was much more aggravating than an over the counter dielectric grease. But I gotta admit, I thought they all crimped, upwards of 25 pairs at a time. It's fair to say though that we weren't always paying close attention to the technique though, sometimes there was much more important stuff to watch. Which was our job, not critique or 'learn the procedure'. I did anyway.

I truly missed that call though, I was one of the ones that thought landline cables were doomed forever, and saw no future in that particular line of business, and it would all be wireless in short order.

But I still crimp, OR solder depending. I don't see how you could solder a properly crimped connection though, as the whole idea is a 'cold weld', which would not leave any room for displacement.

Ive got a small thinker for you. How hard do you think it is to buy a Chevy van and paint ma-bell on the side of it. Think about that one for a minute..

you are right, most of the grease used in telephone and other fiber optic connections is a very heavy, stiff grease and is very messy if you get it on your hands and any tools you are using.... due to the lubricating properties of silicone, it makes things hard to get a grip on stuff on even after you get it all wiped off....

dielectric compound/grease is just a silicone grease like dow corning 111, (which im sure is what they use to fill a telephone or fiber optic splice) although, when its labled "dielectric" it can be purchased in different weights for different applications.... it is non corrosive and non conductive

RTV SILICONE is NEVER, NOT EVER an acceptable substitute.

dielectric grease/silicone is non conductive so when you need to seal a multiple pin connector from the elements(or any other type of electrical splice/connection), you can fill the connector with enough grease so that when you push the connector together, it will displace the air and not allow moisture in....

being non conductive, there will be no residual voltage bleed between the pins, as could happen with another type of non-appropriate displacement material..