Solar Question

[Sumner]

...2) Fuses. You should have a fuse on the output of each panel, at the terminal strip. It only takes a fraction of an amp to cause a fire in thin wire, but even if you use heavy wire (e.g. 12 AWG) you have enough amperage in the array to cause a risk. It's a few bucks to add fuse holders and it can't hurt to put them in, but it might save your boat. There is no down-side to using fuses. I'd use a 4 or 5 amp fuse on a 50-watt panel....

Yep, you're right, for a couple bucks I should just add the fuses to the panels and will,

Sum

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[Bill Roosa]

Dito John N's comments on 12 volt water heaters. A wind system will need a load diverter to handle the "batts charged and the wind is still blowing" situation. These are available at RV supplier outlets.
There should not be a problem using wind and solar together as the wind uses the load dump to maintain a charge so if it does get confused due to a high voltage from the solar it just heats water. Kinda needs an "away from the boat" plan as you may not want the hot water system running then.

 

[John Nantz]

You got me on that one!

John we might like to add a wind charger at some point, but if we are mainly in the Florida area I wonder if the average wind speeds there will make it viable. You said 25 amps, did you mean 25 watts? Here is a link to the 913 ....

http://www.marlec.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/913-data-sheet.pdf

....and I can't see where it could put out 25 amps. Do you have a different model?

I think you got me on that one. Dang! I can't really say for sure now.

The one time I was really paying attention to what it was doing was when we first used it. We were on the West Coast of Vancouver Island in Barkley Sound when we got word of an approaching storm. We headed for Uculet to get into the marina but it was full with the fishing fleet. Apparently they were paying more attention to the weather than I was. The marina was jam packed with commercial fishing boats and the few storm buoys that were available had two or three boats tied on to them as well so we anchored out.

The storm came and there was wall-to-wall white caps in the inlet and our wind generator (new to me at the time) was really humming. I don't remember how I figured the output - if the Link 2000 was installed at the time or not, or if it was based on the output performance curve. I'm sure it was a lot more than 25W though. The graph for the 913 is difficult to read but somehow I think ours puts out more than what the graph says. I just don't have time to research this right now.

Our model is an older one to what you have the link for but the blade configuration looks pretty much the same as the one in the diagram. I think mine is the 912 model [edit: mine is a 910 but not the self furling one. Spec'd at 90W @ 19 kts for the FM910-3 per the Rutland web site, which is similar to the 910] but I'd have to go find the book for it. I had everything in a digital boat manual but the hard drive crashed and a lot was lost. Be sure to do frequent back-ups of your hard drive and don't ask me how I know this.

When sailing to windward it's easy to have good output from the wind generator.

 

[Rick D]

Wind Generators, Fuses, Water Heaters, et al...

OK, you guys are starting to scare me now. That's a lot to digest. The seasonal cruisers who live aboard on their moorings or anchor in my Catalina (Cat Harbor) windward cove typically have both wind and solar because there is usually 12++ knots of wind for a lot longer than there is sun. The trend is still to more solar though; I suspect it's just cost and set up expense.

The other factors are noise and mounting. The solar I can set up to be temporary easily, not so much wind. There used to be halyard-mounted wind generators and there is at least one in Cat Harbor, but I am told they are no longer available. He's not thrilled with the output though, but running 24/7 makes up for a lot.

The other thing is noise. The three-blade units drive me nuts, The five blade units are far quieter if not as efficient in the typically blustery conditions there.

I'm definitely going to fit fuses and I have an old spool of pretty good heavy gauge marine tinned wire, so I have that covered too unless I decide it's overkill.

Thanks to all of you again! I'll do some research on the 12 volt WH element.

 

[Sumner]

OK, you guys are starting to scare me now. That's a lot to digest. ..

Hey Rick I don't think anyone is saying do all of the above now . Hook the panels you have up and enjoy not running the gen-set as much and go from there,

Sum

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[John Nantz]

No cookie-cutter solution. Adjust accordingly

What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another.

While we've got both a wind generator and solar panels, what works for me varies by the time of the year and the area where I cruise.

During the short "summer" period the days are very long so solar works well. The winds tend to be light and die off after sunset.

On the other hand, when we're further north such as up near the northern end of Vancouver Island the area has that "maritime influence" also known as high overcast and fog. The sunny periods are weaker and the winds actually tend to pick up at night rather than die off. For this area while the solar panels are useful even with fog and overcast, the wind generator is very helpful. Between the two of the sources we keep the refrigeration and other power sources supplied.

The other plus is that up north the fuel sources are few and far between. Keeping the outboard supplied with fuel is bad enough. I don't relish the thought of carrying gas cans on board but for now I'm stuck. Recently saw an ad for an electric outboard which while expensive might be an alternative.

With regard to wind generators, the power output really increases rapidly with wind speed, something like at an exponential rate.

Noise depends on how the blades are designed and how the unit is mounted. Our 6-blade unit mounts on the push-pit with a removable mounting. The first mounting iteration was noisy but then it was a jury-rigged setup. The subsequent setup is perfectly quiet and the only noise is from the swooshing of the blades which isn't that noticeable and we have an aft cabin.

The main downside I feel is that output drops off over time and one has to clean the slip rings of carbon from the brushes. The plus with wind is it is a 24 hour system while solar is only for daylight, and probably only the better daylight at that. Plus, solar is better if you aren't around to monitor it.

Either way, solar and wind is renewable and non polluting, plus, once you bought the system the energy generated is free.

 

[Rick D]

One Last Solar Question....

OK, so I have my four 50 watt solar panels ready to go. My MPPT regulator in and all the wiring installed. Now, for the panels. There is nothing pre-wired to the junction box. I have four fuses. I will put 5 amp fuses in them. Sound right? I also purchased blocking diodes. Did I understand correctly that the ring on the diode orients to the battery (ie, not to the panel)? Any problem having both the fuse & the diode on the hot lead? Does the diode properly go on the positive side or can it go on the negative?

I purchased the blocking diodes so that if one panel gets shaded (or a pair), they won't bleed the sunlit ones. Make sense?

EDIT: now I have read that blocking diodes will reduce the voltage to such an extent that it will materially affect performance. One author recommends a switch instead of a blocking diode. Now I am thoroughly conflicted.

Thanks for all your input on this.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Rick, this may help, wander around the site: http://www.windsun.com/General/tech_tips.htm

 

[Sumner]

Did the panels you get have boxes on them with diodes in them? If so I would do as MS suggested on the first page of this thread and add no more. That is what I did on the Mac and what I'm doing on the Endeavour and I was very happy with that route.

Do you have the panels mounted? How about some pictures and which controller did you end up getting?

Also you aren't mixing these panels with the other ones you had are you?

Sum

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[Rick D]

Did the panels you get have boxes on them with diodes in them? No blocking diodes. If so I would do as MS suggested on the first page of this thread and add no more. That is what I did on the Mac and what I'm doing on the Endeavour and I was very happy with that route.

Do you have the panels mounted? How about some pictures and which controller did you end up getting? Will do. These will only be used when I am off to my island mooring for five days or more. The four 50 watt panels will hang from S/S tubing I used to replace the upper aft lifelines. I made telescopic mounts that attach to the toe rail that will allow some orientation to the sun. I'll post some pix after I get it set up. The MPPT controller is one from a US distributor branded for his own company. Reviews were decent, but it looks a bit hokey to me. We'll see how it works out.

Also you aren't mixing these panels with the other ones you had are you? I will try the 50 watt panels by themselves first. Then I'll experiment with the 66 watt total flexible panels. They are wired in to the same loom into the one MPPT controller. I suspect I will have no issues since I will be in bulk charge all the time given the inadequate replacement capacity of all the solar array.

At this point, I am going to pass on installing the blocking diodes and see what happens.

Sum

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[Rick D]

Update on Temporary Solar Panel Installation

So, I got my mounting hardware squared away. Everything is wired in. The panels fit in the dock box once I got rid of a bunch of stuff I had there (brought home a coffee can with a bunch of bronze wood screws from my wood boat 40 years ago). The output was only 5 amps with the batteries down 18%, but that is in a marina and with the sun angle lousy, so I figure half is about right. I need to tidy up the wiring, put some strain relief on the panel wiring, etc. I left off the blocking diodes and put switches in line after the fuses. They are not water proof but I'll put them in boxes later.