Solar controller overcharging batteries

[PAC3142]

I recently installed a 240 watt solar panel with an EPEVER XTRA2210N controller that charges 2 group 31 lead acid batteries connected in parallel. I set the controller to the default settings for lead acid and kept the default setting of 200 Ah, which is reasonable for my 2 batteries.
Now, typically when I get to the boat, the electrical panel voltmeter is pegged at 16V, though the voltage will drop quickly to 13V-ish when I put on a load. Also, I have to add distilled water to the batteries every few weeks. This makes me think the controller is charging the battery at too high a voltage.
I have not checked the battery voltage yet with a hopefully calibrated voltmeter, but will this week.
The photo shows the default settings for the controller. I should be able to change these settings in user mode when Amazon delivers the USB cable.
I have called Custom Marine Products, and they were nice, but did not give me useful advice.
Any advice on correct controller settings or anything else?
Thanks,
Paul

 

[kappykaplan]

Also, I have to add distilled water to the batteries every few weeks. This makes me think the controller is charging the battery at too high a voltage.

Something is cooking your batteries!

 

[jssailem]

Your voltage needs to be reduced to the charge voltage recommended by the battery maker, in the range of 14.2.MAX for "Bulk."

Perhaps that is Boost.

The 16V recording could be the cause of your electrolyte boiling out.

 

[JBP-PA]

Yep, something is wrong. FLA max charging voltage should 14.8, it should not reach 16V ever. 14.4 to 14.8 is OK for absorption. After the absorption period, the float voltage should drop to 13.8. So when you get to your boat after a long time, it should be at 13.8. Solar controllers reset each day (which is dumb, but most do), so if you catch when it is in absorption, you might see 14.4 to 14.8, but you should never see 16, and only 15.8 when you want to do an equalization cycle (which is an incorrect name for desulfation (sp?)).

 

[PAC3142]

Based on JBP-PA's and jssailem's comments and numbers, the default controller settings as shown in my original post are reasonable. I'll check what the actual settings are on my controller. If they are correct, then I may have a faulty controller.

 

[dlochner]

Where did you buy this? I couldn't find dealer in the US. I suggest you go over to Peter Kennedy's store and buy a Victron Controller with Blue Tooth. They are reliable and easy to program with your phone and a free app.

PKYS INC Marine Electrical Systems Experts

 

[PAC3142]

I bought everything from custom marine products (custommarineproducts.com). I may have to do that.

 

[marcham]

throw away the cheap Chinese controller. Buy a victron.

Test the specific gravity of your cells.

Install a victron smartshunt.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

throw away the cheap Chinese controller. Buy a victron.

Test the specific gravity of your cells.

Install a victron smartshunt.

This! Also recommend the Victron Smart Battery Sense to add temperature sensing, and network them (using Bluetooth) with the Smartshunt and Smartsolar controller so the controller will do a temperature-compensated charge. If you have refrigeration aboard, you should also consider the BatteryProtect 65A on your fridge circuit to prevent your fridge from drawing down your batteries too far.

 

[colemj]

Epever is not a cheap Chinese controller. They produce some of Outback Power's controllers (Outback rebrands them), and those are considered first tier. While maybe not the top of the best, they are leagues ahead of Renogy and the no-name controllers, and tend to be a good budget controller.

For all the fanboys Victron cultivates, they are not the best of the top tier, and have shortcomings of their own. In fact, they only really work well if a part of an entire Victron ecosystem of other gear that can work with them. For a standalone controller, there are better choices than Victron, and I'd consider Victron at the bottom of the first tier for standalone.

Having said that, any controller can go bad, and doing something like disconnecting the battery from the controller while the panels are active can damage pretty much all controllers. Until you know exactly the charging voltages your controller is set to, it is difficult to go further with troubleshooting.

But right now, something is wrong and your batteries are being overcharged.

Mark

 

[FastOlson]

Maybe the problem is not that new electronic parts can fail initially, but that the vendor is basically not providing a warranty. Perhaps?
I know nothing about this product or vendor, but once bought a new Balmar Smart Gauge, and it failed upon installation. I called them and followed their instructions on measuring voltages at several points... and they immediately had me send it in for replacement. The second one has been working for almost a decade.
Takeaway is that no product is any better than the support from the seller.
Just IMHO, and also my .02 worth. (now perhaps .03 with inflation)

 

[Johann]

For all the fanboys Victron cultivates, they are not the best of the top tier, and have shortcomings of their own. In fact, they only really work well if a part of an entire Victron ecosystem of other gear that can work with them. For a standalone controller, there are better choices than Victron, and I'd consider Victron at the bottom of the first tier for standalone.

What are Victron MPPTs shortcomings? The only one I can think of is the daily rebulk. They work very well as a standalone. What brands do you consider better and why?

 

[colemj]

What are Victron MPPTs shortcomings? The only one I can think of is the daily rebulk. They work very well as a standalone. What brands do you consider better and why?

Without the supporting Victron ecosystem, they do not know the exact battery voltage or temperature, as they do not have those inputs. I consider this unsuitable for standalone installation. They heat up like an oven and their heatsink is in the rear, where it makes mounting it an issue for cooling and not damaging what it is mounted to. They won't turn on until the panel voltage is 5V higher than the battery voltage, which makes them useless for lower-voltage smaller panels. For larger panels and arrays, their wire terminals are too small to support wire sizes for longer runs on most of their controllers. Ironically, I don't know about the daily rebulk issue you mentioned.

Better controllers that do not have those shortcomings can be found with Morningstar, Outback, and Midnight. I'm sure there are more, but those come to mind as upper tier controllers.

Mark

 

[dlochner]

Without the supporting Victron ecosystem, they do not know the exact battery voltage or temperature, as they do not have those inputs. I consider this unsuitable for standalone installation. They heat up like an oven and their heatsink is in the rear, where it makes mounting it an issue for cooling and not damaging what it is mounted to. They won't turn on until the panel voltage is 5V higher than the battery voltage, which makes them useless for lower-voltage smaller panels. For larger panels and arrays, their wire terminals are too small to support wire sizes for longer runs on most of their controllers. Ironically, I don't know about the daily rebulk issue you mentioned.

Better controllers that do not have those shortcomings can be found with Morningstar, Outback, and Midnight. I'm sure there are more, but those come to mind as upper tier controllers.

Mark

Much of what you have written may well be true for large solar arrays, especially the heat issue. However, for smaller arrays they work well indecent of a larger Victron system. I have a small 300w array comprised of 2 150 watt panels with independent controllers. They have been used with both LA and LFP batteries and there have been no charging issues. Voltages are well controlled and when used with LA batteries the current was also limited to what the battery could accept.

The OP has a small 240w array charging a small 200 ah battery bank. The Victrons should able to easily handle the charging without running into heating issues. And yes, the controller will start at the bulk level, i.e., putting all the current it can muster out to the batteries. However, an hour after sunrise, that isn't much current. The 5v delta between panel and battery voltage can be an issue with low VOC panels which are typically fairly small or cheap.

What the OP needs is good useable system that he can manage with support from the manufacturer or dealer and not a gold plated system. He obviously didn't get that with his current controller. He lives in Annapolis and the recommendation to go to Peter Kennedy's shop is very appropriate. Peter is a well respected marine electrician and dealer who will provide the support he needs.

 

[marcham]

Victrons are simple to instal and configure. It allows to build a system over time, leveraging connectivity between different components and systems. You don't get that with Morningstar, midnight, etc....

Price, ease of use, reliability, connectivity and size are all important parts of the equation.

 

[colemj]

Much of what you have written may well be true for large solar arrays, especially the heat issue. However, for smaller arrays they work well indecent of a larger Victron system. I have a small 300w array comprised of 2 150 watt panels with independent controllers. They have been used with both LA and LFP batteries and there have been no charging issues. Voltages are well controlled and when used with LA batteries the current was also limited to what the battery could accept.

The OP has a small 240w array charging a small 200 ah battery bank. The Victrons should able to easily handle the charging without running into heating issues. And yes, the controller will start at the bulk level, i.e., putting all the current it can muster out to the batteries. However, an hour after sunrise, that isn't much current. The 5v delta between panel and battery voltage can be an issue with low VOC panels which are typically fairly small or cheap.

What the OP needs is good useable system that he can manage with support from the manufacturer or dealer and not a gold plated system. He obviously didn't get that with his current controller. He lives in Annapolis and the recommendation to go to Peter Kennedy's shop is very appropriate. Peter is a well respected marine electrician and dealer who will provide the support he needs.

I was asked to describe the shortcomings of Victron's solar controllers. What I listed are verifiable facts. Whether one ignores them, or rationalizes them to not be important to their system, is up to the purchaser.

Operating a solar controller without temp sensor on a lead battery, or operating one without an accurate voltage sensor on a LFP battery, is not good practice. It can have results from not getting full performance up to damaging the battery. There is no way to do either with a standalone Victron controller, while other controllers have these direct inputs and come with the necessary sensors.

The OP still hasn't determine if his new controller is bad out of the box, programmed incorrectly, or was damaged by no fault of the controller. Everyone here jumped to the conclusion that it was a cheap Chinese controller without knowing anything about it, and urged him to just toss it and spend more money on a Victron controller, while making the assumption that Victron has no similar issues. I can tell you that I've seen several Victron controllers DOA, as well as being damaged by the user to no fault of the controller. I personally have received two Victron Multiplus units that were DOA, proving to me that no company is without some quality issues.

My suggestion to the OP is to determine if the controller is actually bad, or misprogrammed, or something else wrong in the system. Then contact Epever about a warranty replacement, since your dealer doesn't seem to be helpful there. Actually, I'd press the dealer harder for a warranty issue. If this is a new unit, it will have a warranty - and it is surprising you haven't pursued that avenue.

Mark

 

[colemj]

Victrons are simple to instal and configure. It allows to build a system over time, leveraging connectivity between different components and systems. You don't get that with Morningstar, midnight, etc....

Price, ease of use, reliability, connectivity and size are all important parts of the equation.

Besides being a poor choice as a standalone controller because of lacking the ability to accurately monitor temp or voltage, you forgot to mention that if one does want to build out a Victron system over time, they will need to buy into the Victron ecosystem and its separate components to do so. You don't have to do this with Morningstar, Midnight, etc. I don't buy into the thought that relying on interconnectivity is advantageous. I'm actually amazed at the number of people who are proponents of this in terms of their Victron systems, but rail against similar interconnectivity reliance in other things on their boats.

Mark

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Besides being a poor choice as a standalone controller because of lacking the ability to accurately monitor temp or voltage, you forgot to mention that if one does want to build out a Victron system over time, they will need to buy into the Victron ecosystem and its separate components to do so. You don't have to do this with Morningstar, Midnight, etc. I don't buy into the thought that relying on interconnectivity is advantageous. I'm actually amazed at the number of people who are proponents of this in terms of their Victron systems, but rail against similar interconnectivity reliance in other things on their boats.

Mark

I agree that some of us (me included) were wrong to knock the Epever without knowing about it, and that the OP should do more troubleshooting with the vendors to find out what's needed to correct the issue. While agreeing some of your arguments have merits, I don't agree that networking the system is an automatic disadvantage. It has pros and cons, mostly pros IMHO. If all you need is a stand-alone solar controller then perhaps it's a negative to need to buy a separate ~$40 Bluetooth battery monitor to manage charge temperature compensation, whereas a ~$40 wired remote temperature probe add-on will do the same thing (e.g. Morningstar).
The Bluetooth doesn't require running wires through tight spaces or drilling holes for wires and Victron provides a smartphone free app that's pretty good. It provides a wealth of real-time and historical information (some of it useful) and convenient access to either "default" settings by battery type, or advanced charge programming settings so you can choose your own or follow the battery maker recommendations. TheBluetooth network also makes it possible to synch the settings for multiple charge controllers (e.g. if you have multiple makes/models of PV panels or panel locations and want to group each of them on their own charge controllers, all with only one sensor on the house battery bank).

 

[Johann]

Besides being a poor choice as a standalone controller because of lacking the ability to accurately monitor temp or voltage, you forgot to mention that if one does want to build out a Victron system over time, they will need to buy into the Victron ecosystem and its separate components to do so.

With regards to temperature and voltage monitoring, the Smart Battery Sense connects via Bluetooth and is $40. Thats about what you would spend on a Morningstar temperature sensor and voltage sense wires… maybe less. And you don’t have to run the wires so that issue favors Victron actually.

As far as heat from the MPPTs I have not had that issue or heard of it. My MPPTs have never felt very warm although I am a bit oversized. The original Orion DC-DC chargers are the heat problem. I had to add 40mm cooling fans to stay at rated output.

The >5V issue. If your panel Voc isn’t 5V over your battery voltage you should be looking at a PWM controller not an MPPT.

It sounds like you were unlucky with Victron DOA and that is influencing your opinion. But if I may serve as a data point, I have 15+ Victron components acquired over 6 years and never a single issue (other than the Orions derating).

 

[marcham]

Besides being a poor choice as a standalone controller because of lacking the ability to accurately monitor temp or voltage, you forgot to mention that if one does want to build out a Victron system over time, they will need to buy into the Victron ecosystem and its separate components to do so. You don't have to do this with Morningstar, Midnight, etc. I don't buy into the thought that relying on interconnectivity is advantageous. I'm actually amazed at the number of people who are proponents of this in terms of their Victron systems, but rail against similar interconnectivity reliance in other things on their boats.

Mark

To each their own.... back in the 70s and 80s, small boat instruments were separate and independent. Surely there must be reason that everything has moved to nmea/canbus? Surely aircraft, auto and boat manufacturers must have a strong business case for relying on integrated networks and equipment vice one to one device to sensor wiring? Redundancy, less wiring, ease of maintenance, better information in more places, ease of maintenance and software updates.... ? If I'm flying a B52 dropping atomic bombs, there's a business case for analogue and independent systems, but for a boat? We're not talking about brand new untested technology.... As soon as one goes to lithium, having a canbus interface is truly the only safe and efficient way to control and monitor the battery status.... welcome to the future

We still don't know if the OP's issue is related to the batteries, charge controller or something else, but the big advantage with Victron, is the bluetooth connectivity which provides ease of programming and provides ease access to current status and historical values (if a shunt is installed), which makes troubleshooting electrical issues so much easier to troubleshoot and analyze.... I've never seen a boat that at one point or another, doesn't have electrical issues...