Yes maybe another boat is the right thing to do. The only thing is there’s a long wait list for a slip but since this boat is brokered by the marina we are guaranteed a slip for next year. And it’s the only one they’re brokering. Another boat brought to the marina has to wait in line. A bit of a quandary.
Skeg Wobble - Advice Needed
- Thread starter JDE
- Start date
If you really gotta have it, make an offer reserving about 6 to 8K for a repair. The present owner has saved at least that much by not making the repair on his dime. He will not mind, since he will have to bear the cost one way or the other....
Back to the repair job. Here’s a link to a fairly involved skeg repair that suffered impact damage. A mostly complete rebuild around a remnant if the original skeg. Fascinating.
Impact damage is different from flexing and weakness. There was also water infiltration and poor factory construction technique as described in the thread. It is evident that exploratory grinding and probing is necessary to really understand the nature of the problem. Interesting to note that there was no mention of interior work involving bracing or bolts as the skeg was a resin filled clamshell piece adhered to the underside of the hull in a recess for the flange of the skeg. I’m sure this is one of manny fabrication methods out there.
Skeg/Rudder Repair - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
Hello everyone, very busy summer, been gone awhile. Got in over a month of cruising in the islands this summer, fabulous time had by all. So I note a number of threads on skeg repair , and I happen to
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Impact damage is different from flexing and weakness. There was also water infiltration and poor factory construction technique as described in the thread. It is evident that exploratory grinding and probing is necessary to really understand the nature of the problem. Interesting to note that there was no mention of interior work involving bracing or bolts as the skeg was a resin filled clamshell piece adhered to the underside of the hull in a recess for the flange of the skeg. I’m sure this is one of manny fabrication methods out there.
That looks a lot like what you'd have to do. However, for my peace of mind, if this were my boat, I'd look inside and see what there is for structure. Then decide if additional structure were required.
Here's the dilemma in my mind - this undesirable motion could have come from one or both of two sources:
1) Some kind of impact or external force causing the weakening of this structure.
2) An inherent design weakness and this is how it manifests over time.
I'd want to make sure my fix wasn't patching up the second case with a band-aid, so to speak, just waiting for this to occur again over time.
dj
Here's the dilemma in my mind - this undesirable motion could have come from one or both of two sources:
1) Some kind of impact or external force causing the weakening of this structure.
2) An inherent design weakness and this is how it manifests over time.
I'd want to make sure my fix wasn't patching up the second case with a band-aid, so to speak, just waiting for this to occur again over time.
dj
You don't like the idea of a Frankenstein boat??? LOL
I'm glad you said it - it was in my mind but just didn't verbalize it. Glad you did!
Just a note - skegs should be bolted on like keels - as in structural entities - but I understand not all are built that way... I have no idea regarding this boat....
dj
I want to thank everyone for your consideration of this issue. I’ve learned a lot. We have decided to pass on this boat considering the unknowns, risk and possible costs, etc. So, we’ll keep looking.
Hey! Can't believe I just saw this. My wife and I purchased this exact sailboat around December 2020, just 3 months after this posting.
We were in GA so had an inspector come out. Main issue was the acrylic long windows on both sides of deck cracked and damaged the interior wood trim around the windows, and caused some of the elm to get damaged below the floor boards. So we were able to get the price down quite a bit, shipped it over to the gulf coast in Alabama and moved down here! Originally we drove from Atlanta every weekend working on it but that didn't work
So, about the rudder. The skeg was perfectly fine, but since you mention it, I'll double check it but I did examine it and it was fine. The issue was the rudder and gundgeon. The rudder was made of wood and fiberglassed over. So it was completely rotted inside. Also the gundgeon was pitted and deteriorated. As well as the bearing that goes on the rudder shaft and into the gundgeon was chipped and worn.
So after dropping the rudder and discovering that, my wife made a mold of one side of the rudder (after fairing it and making it smooth), and then fiberglassed a new side of the rudder. Also had a shop make a new bearing from some better material. We have the pour foam that we will use and glass over it. Just waiting on the machinist to make a new gundgeon since that fits on the shaft and then glassed around it.
We knew we wanted a boat to refit since no boat had what we wanted. We checked out a Kirie in SC, and price was over the top and wouldn't budge, but my wife fell in love with the interior design Kirie has so when she saw that she wanted it.
We've gutted that entire boat, looking at past photos I can't believe it looked that bad in some areas compared to now ahaha.
Previous owner ran ac drain, shower drain, wet locker drain, all to the bilge. Can imagine how nasty it was. And electrical, HVAC, he did was horrendous.
Headliner was carpet, had to grind the glue after ripping that off. Varnished all the floorboards but haven't put them back in until we take off cause don't wanna damage them yet.
Major changes we've done/doing:
* Cut new acrylic windows for top deck on both sides, and the port aft cabin window.
* Replaced all 4 hatches with new lewmar ones
*Ripped out wheel steering and fiberglassed and faired it so looks like never had it.
*converting to tiller steering
* removed engine and fiberglassed engine thruhulls and throttle in cockpit. Plan on going engineless. Plus engine bay is now perfect for installing lithium batteries and to have entire electrical panel and wiring based in there.
*Removed countertops and cut new ones from marine plywood and just need to epoxy them. Going for a marble-ish look.
*Removed all wood that was screwed on and varnished. Interior wood still needs to be varnished though.
*Replaced all standing and running rigging, waiting to install till later though. Found original rigging plans and just going with that instead of junking up the deck with what previous owners added
*Sanded and kiwi gripped the deck
*Replaced old wash boards with new acrylic
* Currently working on seeing if can fix crazying in the companionway slider. If not, will do a nice wood one.
*Retabbed much of the bulkhead areas. Water damage, I assume, delaminated some.
*Repainted entire lockers and bilge from the ugly brown to interlux bilgekot grey.
* We're making new stanchions and found original bases from France. Previous owners replaced with different type ones and they were bent at bottom.
*New thru holes with true design
*New dometic ac and katadyn 80e watermaker
*B&G triton package for electronics
*Removed icebox/fridge. Since through our propane, the area where stove was is much better for a fridge. Building divider for storage in old area of fridge, and after installin countertop with either build a fridge with insulantion panels around, or purchase one if dimensions work out. *Induction stove for cooking, the reason we can use that space for fridge now.
*All fresh water done manual pumps. Since having AC unit, water maker, and induction stove, minimizing electrical usage as much as can.
*Have 600watts of solar to install once near to drop in the water.
This has been a huge project. But its been fun. We've never sailed a day in our life. My wife gets awfully seasick. We spend all our money on supplies or new equipment for the boat. We're obviously insane but at least it keeps us from being idle and not like all the others in their mid 20's like us.
Once done, plan to go to the Med, and eventually South Pacific. Or die trying!
Posted some photos if anyone was curious.
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Wow! What a project! Nice work.
I'd suggest getting stugeron for your wife. You can sometimes get it in Canada but seems to be getting harder these days. I get it from a friend in the UK. It was created for pregnant women to eliminate morning sickness so you can take it for extended time periods. Hope she overcomes her seasickness. That's a tough one if you sail a lot. There is a US product similar, I'll have to look it up. Ah, meclizine. Haven't used that one but am told it's quite similar.
Good luck and great follow up!
dj
I'd suggest getting stugeron for your wife. You can sometimes get it in Canada but seems to be getting harder these days. I get it from a friend in the UK. It was created for pregnant women to eliminate morning sickness so you can take it for extended time periods. Hope she overcomes her seasickness. That's a tough one if you sail a lot. There is a US product similar, I'll have to look it up. Ah, meclizine. Haven't used that one but am told it's quite similar.
Good luck and great follow up!
dj
Nice work. A couple of quick comments.
How are you reinforcing the internal structure of the rudder? Most (all?) foam rudders have a SS web inside to support the forces on the rudder, foam just isn't strong enough.
When the acrylic was installed did you drill over sized holes for the screws? If not, the acrylic will crack around the screw holes due to thermal expansion.
How are you reinforcing the internal structure of the rudder? Most (all?) foam rudders have a SS web inside to support the forces on the rudder, foam just isn't strong enough.
When the acrylic was installed did you drill over sized holes for the screws? If not, the acrylic will crack around the screw holes due to thermal expansion.
Yes I was a wondering about that. We've built it following how the guy from boatworkstoday on YouTube rebuilt a rudder and he didn't add anything extra, but that was a small rudder and it was just a straight shaft.
Ours has these welded on pieces that point outward. Between that, and 16ft pound foam, do you think that would be enough?
The old wooden one was throughbolted between the wood and then fiberglassed over.
I've attached some photos of the old rudder half, the new side we made from a mold of it, and the shaft itself also with the gundgeon and bushing.
As for the acrylic windows, we followed what the guy from boatworkstoday on YouTube did (haha learned a lot from watching that guy) and we did 3m double backed tape, and then sealed the edes with Dow corning 795 sealant. Didn't want to drill any new holes since that's what caused the previous cracks and water leaks.
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Andy from Boat Works is good reliable source. I've been a follower for years.
As for the rudder, the last picture in the above post is the part I was wondering about. So long as the welds are still good and there is not crevice corrosion you'll be fine. The old gudgeon does not look all that healthy.
So the photo of the acrylic is the old stuff, not what you installed? If so, the PO did it wrong as you now know.
A couple of minor points.
Your first post looks like there are duplicate photos, if that's the case deleting the extras would be helpful. In the future you can upload photos by using the "Attach Files" button at the bottom of the posting window. This will give you the option of showing a thumbnail in the post or the whole image. When posting several photos, it is best to post thumbnails. This uses less bandwidth and makes for faster page loading. Some of our members are using data capped phones and hot spots, saves their data. If they want to see a larger image, then they can click on the thumbnail.
As for the rudder, the last picture in the above post is the part I was wondering about. So long as the welds are still good and there is not crevice corrosion you'll be fine. The old gudgeon does not look all that healthy.
So the photo of the acrylic is the old stuff, not what you installed? If so, the PO did it wrong as you now know.
A couple of minor points.
Your first post looks like there are duplicate photos, if that's the case deleting the extras would be helpful. In the future you can upload photos by using the "Attach Files" button at the bottom of the posting window. This will give you the option of showing a thumbnail in the post or the whole image. When posting several photos, it is best to post thumbnails. This uses less bandwidth and makes for faster page loading. Some of our members are using data capped phones and hot spots, saves their data. If they want to see a larger image, then they can click on the thumbnail.
Yes I was wondering too. Welds look good, but there's some tiny pin holes throughout the lower shaft. When the welder/machinist checks it out I'll ask and see what he thinks. I'm not welder so not sure if its really good or bad.
And oh yeah. That gudgeon has a pitting hole that goes very deep inside of it. Previous owners were just filling it with silicone/epoxy or something cause had get all that out to even see it.
Yes the photo of the acrylic is what the manufacturer did originally. Through bolted so many screws. So we filled them with epoxy, and cut new ones. Let me see if I can find a photo of what the new one looks like, wasn't able to last night.
Really? It doesn't show duplicates on my end. Wonder how to check? And thanks for the advice on thumbnails! Never really post on forum, just a reader so thanks! Will mark them as them as thumbnails then!
Couldn't find a picture of what it looks like now with the acrylic but found found one when putting the 3m tape. Also showed some of the rot we had to cut those braces throughout the floors the floorboards sit on. Gutted it, filled with a thickened polyester resin and fiberglassed it over. Don't have photos of the cabinetry coosaboard we cut and fiberglassed in but when I'm at the boat can take some.
That sounds like the beginning of crevice corrosion. This happens when SS is in a wet oxygen deprived environment. Consider having a new shaft built, a rudder failure is high on the list of things you don't want to happen on your boat.
The Gudgeon is toast. You can try Buck-Algonquin or Spartan to see if they have a replacement, otherwise a machine shop can make a new one.
I feel your concern for your wife and seasickness. There are many drugs and ideas such as calm music played through ear buds or taking the helm (taking control of the boat) on how to address this affliction.
I read an article a couple years ago by a woman on the east coast. She and her husband had decided to go sailing in their retirement. All went well til they untied the lines and headed out on to the ocean. For over a year she battled with the problem. Finally with the help of a therapist, she attributed her condition to the anxiety and stress related to getting ready to leave the marina. Yes there was an inner ear component to this stress reaction. Once she dealt with the fears she had, she was able to reduce and even stop the seasickness.
I’ll try to locate the article.
I read an article a couple years ago by a woman on the east coast. She and her husband had decided to go sailing in their retirement. All went well til they untied the lines and headed out on to the ocean. For over a year she battled with the problem. Finally with the help of a therapist, she attributed her condition to the anxiety and stress related to getting ready to leave the marina. Yes there was an inner ear component to this stress reaction. Once she dealt with the fears she had, she was able to reduce and even stop the seasickness.
I’ll try to locate the article.
I've attached some close up photos of the shaft. The part never inside the rudder looks great, but lots of tiny imperfections below it. Have finally had a welder/machinist contact us back and able to bring it in to check it out.
Since converting to tiller we purchased and extra foot of stainless steel shaft that is already keyed for tiller attachment. But diameter is smaller than our shaft, so not sure if that's a safe idea to have ruder decrease in diameter at the top.
Thanks for the places to check out! I searched online and couldn't find anything similar so was going to have a new one fabricated but I'll check those first.
Yes that's what she's afraid of. All the time and money spent refitting it, and she's worried she'll get out there and can't take it. We went deep sea fishing and about 20 miles off the coast she got sea sick and through up the whole time. Only once she saw the land and got back close was she feeling better again. And that was a much bigger boat than ours and no heel like a sailboat so could be bad for her.
I'll tell her that and if you do find the article please let me know! We're trying to try out everything for her haha. She even got seasick one time just walking on a floating dock!
We were it in the Pacific on a fishing boat when one our group headed for the head. He was down for most of the trip. I had a pair of the wrist bands that applied pressure on wrist points. They seemed to help him enough to com out the stern and fight a fish.
Not sure of the effectiveness. It may be just anecdotal. Might be worth a try.
Not sure of the effectiveness. It may be just anecdotal. Might be worth a try.