Should we buy it?

[Liam]

Capt Ron

I found that your statement about bad boats being sold by brokers in Santa Cruz pretty interesting. There are only two Yacht Brokers in Santa Cruz. And I would agree with you that they definately sell some real doosies.One of them was a BIG name designer/builder who is now a broker. Coincidentally this person is now on the board of the port district and has been instrumental in raising slip rent prices any way he can to get people to give up their slips and go away so that he can sell more boats and put them in the newly vacated slips. We are now paying close to $10 a foot when three years ago we paid about $6. His new plan is to charge length plus beam for new caculations that would increase slip rent again. A real self serving individual who doesn't give a s--- about sailors... only cares about turning more product.I worked as a yacht broker back in the 80's in Ventura. Yacht Brokers had a bad reputation then and the industry hasn't done anything to improve it.Oh well, some things never change.

 

[Capt Ron;-)]

soldboats.com

It's a paid subscription, but I did not give out the yachtbrokers bus names.

 

[Ross]

Tom , There are two terms used when boats

wind up with water on the inside: swamped or sunk. You may argue the fine points between flooded and swamped until neither of us has any hair. But a man that is in water up to his chin can come out okay but another 3 inches will have a dramatic effect on the outcome. Whether or not the boat was harmed and whether or not Gene was informed concerning the details, there were enough questions to cause me to have grave doubts about the wisdom purchasing this boat.I have occupied a slip that left my boat sitting on the bottom at low tide. So if there had been a "loose through hull" my boat would have flooded. My WL is 18 inches above my cabin sole. My engine would have gotten wet, all of my stores would be ruined and the boat would have been out of service for some finite time. That time has value. The time that a potential buyer spends looking at a boat can be either well spent or wasted depending upon how accurately his broker keeps him informed. I think that you wasted this man's time.

 

[Tom S]

True story about water above floorboards

I really can't comment on this Catalina 380, but I had a Watkins 27 before I got my present boat (a Catalina 36)I used to keep the old Watkins 27 on fore and aft piling mooring in Cheesequake Creek in NJ. I was away for a few weeks and when I got back to the boat it had at least 2-3 (maybe 4?!) inches above the cabin sole ! *yks I can tell you I had a serious pit in my stomach the second I open thye hatch boards. Apparently my stuffing box was leaking pretty well (and my bilge pump was not on) and over the period of a few weeks the sea water got into the boat. I immediately pumped the water out, retightened the stuffing box and all was well. There really was no long term effects or problems from that water other than a slight stain on the main bulheads teak veneer. I oiled that back down and everything was fine. I should add that the Watkins 27 did not have any wood floors (just a fiberglass pan) so nothing was affected that way and there wasn't any wiring that I can remember in the bilge area other than the bilge pump.That was the first year I owned that boat and owned it for another 8 years with no ill effects from that water for those weeks. Oh yes one more thing, that next spring I replaced the stuffing box with a PYI mechanical shaft seal. It worked very well for 7 years until that one time the from stainless steel "donut" shimmied up the shaft while I was out one day. We'll save that story for another time One last thing. I think the asking price of $120k for a 2000 C380 is pretty darn good and that probably reflects what has happened to this boat. I have a 1999 C36 which is much less boat and I know I could sell it for not much less than that. I've gotta wonder what the condition of some of those C380's that Cap't Ron listed, especially the 2000 C380 from maine for $80k. Reason I say this is because I have a good freind that was looking for a long time for a C380 (he ended up buying a brand new C387) and many of th boats he was looking at were 2003 or newer and they were a lot closer to $200k than they were to $150k I will tell you that

 

[r.w.landau]

Gene, a little help here, please.

I have to say that this boat sank while listed by a broker. The price is what was set by the owner and the broker is only selling what he has to sell. Gene please help clear the issue of Tom's lively hood. For those of you that think your boat is in great shape and you have done nothing to it and handed it off to a broker, what are you selling? All used boats need to be repaired. It is a given. Something is wrong with every boat and has probably been a problem since the PO bought it.Thanks Gene,r.w.landauEdited: Fred is clean here. He fixed his boat from the hull up and did it right. It is a Ficarra Hunter. They should hire him as a consultant.

 

[Capt Ron;-)]

No harn - no foul; didn't make these up

TOTAL NUMBER OF SOLD BOATS: 283,223       Selected Search Criteria:Mfgr/Model : Catalina (10043)Boat Type : [(Sail) Cruiser] (69757)Length: Between 38 ft and 38 ft (9618)Year: Between 1999 and 2002 (53756) Total records found: 117  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Click on one boat to view the full listing, or view full listings for all the boats on this page. Revise Search  Items: 31 - 60 of 117 Page Previous 1 2 3 4 Next  Length Boats Year Listed US$ Sold US$ Location YachtWorld Member  38' Catalina 380 2001 129,900 (09/04) 119,000 (05/07) NY, USA Boats  38' Catalina 380 2001 129,900 (10/05) 123,000 (03/07) NY, USA Yachts  38' Catalina 380 2000 165,000 (09/01) 150,000 (02/02) MD, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 159,500 (10/00) 148,500 (11/00) CA, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 159,000 (08/06) 150,000 (09/06) CA, USA Br...  38' Catalina 380 2000 158,900 (09/01) 137,500 (02/02) NJ, USA G.  38' Catalina 380 2000 157,000 (02/01) 80,000 (07/01) MA, USA Bay  38' Catalina 380 2000 157,000 (07/01) 147,000 (07/01) MA, USA Bay  38' Catalina 380 2000 154,701 (07/00) 154,701 (12/00) WA, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 152,900 (10/02) 146,000 (01/03) NJ, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 149,900 (06/03) 141,000 (08/03) CA, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 149,500 (11/04) 142,000 (03/07) WA, USA Servi...  38' Catalina 380 2000 149,500 (01/05) 142,500 (08/05) MI, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 149,000 (12/04) 135,000 (10/05) MA, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 149,000 (01/05) 132,000 (05/05) CA, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 149,000 (03/05) 138,750 (12/05) CA, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 149,000 (12/05) 135,000 (06/06) CA, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 148,900 (04/04) 144,000 (08/04) CA, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 147,500 (08/99) 147,500 (08/99) WA, USA ...  38' Catalina 380 2000 144,995 (04/03) 135,000 (05/03) CA, USA ...  38' Catalina 380 2000 144,900 (05/06) 123,000 (12/06) MD, USA A...  38' Catalina 380 2000 144,900 (04/07) 143,000 (07/07) WA, USA ...  38' Catalina 380 2000 142,500 (10/04) 142,000 (04/05) NY, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 142,000 (07/05) 137,500 (04/06) MD, USA .  38' Catalina 380 2000 139,995 (09/05) 131,000 (03/06) CA, USA ..  38' Catalina 380 2000 139,900 (02/03) 137,000 (04/03) MA, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 136,000 (09/02) 130,000 (07/03) SC, USA ...  38' Catalina 380 2000 135,900 (11/04) 127,000 (03/07) NY, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 125,000 (08/05) 110,000 (06/07) SC, USA  38' Catalina 380 2000 109,900 (01/06) 94,000 (06/06) FL, USA

 

[higgs]

Old Salt

I realized that when I posted. I like the boat better than the 380, but I have this traditionalist streak in me.

 

[higgs]

After hearing the broker

I would not write this boat off. Water over the floor boards is not going to casue any longterm effects as long as the interior has not been damaged. A wet cabin sole is no problem as long as it is dried out promptly. Assuming Tom is being upfront here, I see no reason the boat is damaged. From the original post, I felt far different as it sounded as if the boat was submerged much deeper. What is not clear to me is the amount of time between the sinking and Gene's visit. I do think Tom had an obligation to inform Tom of the sinking and the details. If Tom was aware of Gene's trip and allowed time to pass before informing Gene, then Tom was not being up front. If it was possible, Gene whould have been given the option to cancel his trip if the sinking was going to scare him off. So what about it Tom - did you inform Gene as soon as you knew or did you wait until it was too late for him to cancel his trip?

 

[letterman]

capt ron

How did you find the info on yachtworld for sold boats? I can't dig it up anywhere.

 

[Tom]

380 Catalina

As I stated earlier, the buyer was informed with in 30 minutes of the boat going down, however that was on the Friday before his Monday visit. But regardless I called him right away. The boat was pumped out at the dock to raise her while we towed her the 1/4 mile to the haul out yard. There was no water in the boat when the buyer inspected her, but the batteries had not yet been removed and they looked bad at the time.

 

[Capt Ron;-)]

Mr letter; read previous post

This is no secret, yachtworld.com is a free site to look/buy yachts.soldboats.com is a paid subscription, most do come from yachtworld, but it is carefuly watched for accuracy of what the yacht actually SOLD for.Lotta 380 Catalinas around, both high & low prices, if this was indeed a 'one of a kind' you may want to take another look, but not if there are plenty others at a close price off the 'assembly line' yes?Boat prices are falling due to the home market, but the dollars very low value is making a bigger market overseas for our yachts.This is a good time to buy tho, people shedding toys, winter season, other factors too.My feeling is this, if the fellow has made up his mind to change his life (yes, I would start with a small boat) he should go ahead and take the loss, not be concerned, but the boat and go on his merry way in search of his personal happiness.Why? Simply because tomorrow is promised to no man. You do not know how much time is left, and it will come unexpectedly.What the hell difference will it make if you lost ten thousand when you are in a grave somewhere?Yes, ol Pete there made the right decision he waited for more money on his proerty....Now the window is spending it at the race track with a toy boy!

 

[Pete]

Another issue to think about

there are lots of good thoughts here with reguard to purchasing or not. the posts both positive and negative have merit and with out getting into the broker issue here are my thougths.  Even if you purchase the boat it will have a "history" of having taken on water. There will always be a question about how and what repairs were made and if there was any structial damage to the boat. This will be a reality even if not deserved. So..... here come the twist... just look at the number of people who would have nothing to do with this boat if you were ever to have sell it (and someday you will be the seller). Unless you plan on keeping this boat until you die (not very likely) resale is an issue. A good surveyor (and a sharp buyer)will note repairs made or question if there is any thing to make them suspect the boat has taken on water. A boat tends to keep its history if someone really want to find out about it.  So my thoughts are extreme due diligance on the buyers part to fully understand what they are purchasing and are they willing to accept all the consiquence of that. Not to say there are not "deals" to be had but sooner or later it will be about the money and only you can decide that !

 

[Capt Ron;-)]

We only know what we read here

Tom, we just are sharing information, helping others if we kin, and gossiping to enjoy talking boats.This is an important topic from your perspective, and if what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, the you did act honroable and what more can you do? It did sound amiss when we all first heard this.I do know some honest brokers, Wayne Moskow has the highest integrity of any man I have ever known, a real stand-up guy, and a well known broker here in the bay area. I have worked with him on projects, mostly deliveries, and he does not lie, not to a client or anyone.I wish you well, forgive the joke about the boat-shoes, old but funny still.

 

[higgs]

Over reaction

I think there is a bit of an over reaction going on here. Stuff like this happens to boats all the time. I am sure those of us who bought used have boats that have been through similar and worse. Any boat worth its salt can take stuff like this with no ill effects. It not like the boat sat this way for 6 months. Tom was more than honest. I am not sure if, after cleaning the boat up, he even had an obligation to say what had happened. I would not want a boat that could not take this type of punishment. This is part of boating and the vessels are built to take it. Batteries awash - big deal. Gene could ask for new ones if he is concerned.

 

[Jeff]

Find one that didnt sink

Find one that didn't sink for the same price.I've seen 380's in that year range at that price level that have not sunk.A sinking is not fatal however it greatly increases the risk of both major and minor yet irritating and expensive future problems. From wiring, electrical and electronic fits to rust, mold, corrosion, ill fitting fixtures and general saltyness.If you have one that sunk, I wouldn't panic. However if you're buying, you may as well get one that didn't sink.